Good job with 3den!

[Lawa 0]

the Eden editor is just awesome I used the 2D editor before and this new Eden editor is much much more easier to deal with ! 

[sic-disaster 311]

Well I'll be the party pooper then..

 

Just being a visitor to the A3 shores and using the new editor a couple of times.

Now I can see that players, especially new players, may find this better, be able to achieve more with it. This obviously is good for them and the games progression into the area it wants to be.

 

But..

I can't help thinking that the effort that was put into this, could have been put into the woeful AI. Now I say woeful, in context of the Arma world, not comparing it to other games. We all know, or most of us know, that the Arma AI is very good when compared to other games that have a large open world to have to deal with, plus everything they have to do within that world. But it could/can be so much better.

 

This is more to do with why this editor could perhaps have been avoided. Have an AI that knows what its supposed to do, simple things like garrison buildings, find cover better than it does, sharing info across the whole faction and not just simply with their own team mates. Having the ability to call in the right type/amount of help and assistance (infantry, air, armour, sea), hear what is happening around them properly and reacting accordingly, drive in convoy.. Etc.. Its all there in modded AI, why not vanilla.

 

Its great that players can place AI units much more precisely without having to put anything in an init field and keep popping in and out of the game to see its done correctly. But its sort of pointless without an AI that will then know what to do after being placed in such a great position.

 

It's just if.. All the effort that was put into this editor, was put into the AI instead. Thus leaving the editor as it was for now.

Its a good editor for the new player to get into. But it just pushes aside what is really needed. That is a really good vanilla AI system, which A3 doesn't have, even when looking into modded AI, its very hard to get very good AI for A3.

 

Arma is going more into the 'Life' mode and less towards the mil/sim style, SP or coop against AI player. The AI are getting little to no work. I know they keep tweaking, but really its all around the edges. I go into A3 occasionally and still see a, when compared to very good A2 modded AI, very poor vanilla AI.

BI, put the time into AI, or perhaps just admit its of little to no concern to the game anymore. Whereas a 'flashy' editor is really needed.. Of course.. :huh:

 

I know.. deaf ears..

 

You are assuming that everybody at BIS works on the same thing at the same time? No, of course not. Every company has people in different departments working on different areas of the game. Adding new weapons, units etc. doesn't take away anything from (for example) scenario creation, or writing code for a 3d editor, because it's a completely different discipline. I don't expect the people who created the 3d editor to work on AI systems, I'm going to assume they have a special set of people for that. So adding in one thing to the game doesn't take away from other things necessarily. Just something to keep in mind.

[chrisb 196]

You are assuming that everybody at BIS works on the same thing at the same time? No, of course not. Every company has people in different departments working on different areas of the game. Adding new weapons, units etc. doesn't take away anything from (for example) scenario creation, or writing code for a 3d editor, because it's a completely different discipline. I don't expect the people who created the 3d editor to work on AI systems, I'm going to assume they have a special set of people for that. So adding in one thing to the game doesn't take away from other things necessarily. Just something to keep in mind.

 

Very naïve. Just sit and think about it for a while.

 

Now I'm not saying and didn't say, as it happens, that the people doing the editor would be the same ones doing the much more skilled, AI work. But that doesn't mean to say that, the time couldn't have been spent doing just what I said. Business is business and it does depend on where that business has its priorities. Now I know BI doesn't have its priorities in AI (well not anymore), so I wouldn't expect it to change. However I said that, I just couldn't help thinking that 'if', the effort was put into the AI, that was put into the new editor..

Although that is what I wrote, had you read it properly.

 

That said.

 

BI won't do it, I know and I can see why they wouldn't do it, from a business point of view. Lets be honest, producing a high quality game 'from the back', is hard. Putting polish at the front, is what most players see and appreciate 'unfortunately'. But that is those players.

But it pains me to think they could. But of course there is little money in things that the majority of players your now aiming at, wouldn't see or appreciate. Because the game no longer attracts those players. Did it ever really attract many of those players anyway, I'm not so sure. Perhaps not that many saw the potential after all.

I'm sure the pioneering few that started BI did, but struggle can hit hard and when eventually you find out that really there are few people that will see and enjoy the potential in the same way. Then you start to lose faith yourself. Then something comes along that brings in the income.  'The vision',  then gives way to income (of course, happens in many businesses).

 

BI have done it the business way, chase the income. I completely agree with that, in part, from a business point of view (I did the same for a while). However, I am viewing this from a players point of view, a certain player-base, perhaps on the whole, lost to BI now.

[[evo] dan 79]

Snip

 

I actually quite like the Eden editor. However, I also think the AI should be improved upon (I know the guys who write UI and what not code won't be AI specialists). I think Eden has exposed its more to me now that I can do all the nice things a lot easier. One thing to include is where is my waypoint for getting AI weapon teams to set up their weapon or even my squad command to do it for example? Also, its making me miss proper logistics and picking up of things in the game world as its much easier to pre load a truck with boxes but a lot harder to unload them unless I roll them out of the back on a corner!

[chrisb 196]

I actually quite like the Eden editor. ..snip..

 

I like it. But it wasn't something we were desperate for in the vanilla game.

[[evo] dan 79]

I like it. But it wasn't something we were desperate for in the vanilla game.

exactly, and I think they managed to break the load waypoint as I can't seem to get the AI to get into a helicopter ready for transport (users to be load with sync'd waypoints, then unload with sync'd waypoints), unless of course the 'sync' is not where I think it is.

[Imperator-TFD 4]

I like it. But it wasn't something we were desperate for in the vanilla game.

 

Speak for yourself mate.  The 3D editor is and has been desperately needed since Arma 2 if not earlier.

It has opened up mission making to a whole new generation of content creators and made life far easier for us veteran mission makers too.

 

exactly, and I think they managed to break the load waypoint as I can't seem to get the AI to get into a helicopter ready for transport (users to be load with sync'd waypoints, then unload with sync'd waypoints), unless of course the 'sync' is not where I think it is.

 

Still works the same way - right click on a unit/trigger/waypoint and use the Sync function to connect.

[sic-disaster 311]

Very naïve. Just sit and think about it for a while.

 

Now I'm not saying and didn't say, as it happens, that the people doing the editor would be the same ones doing the much more skilled, AI work. But that doesn't mean to say that, the time couldn't have been spent doing just what I said. Business is business and it does depend on where that business has its priorities. Now I know BI doesn't have its priorities in AI (well not anymore), so I wouldn't expect it to change. However I said that, I just couldn't help thinking that 'if', the effort was put into the AI, that was put into the new editor..

Although that is what I wrote, had you read it properly.

 

 

 

That is exactly what you are saying right there. Any part of the team will focus on their part of the game, so their time will not be spent on anything else. So no, that time could not have spent doing what you said.

[gibonez 18]

Yup 3den is fantastic.

 

The 3d editor really flushes out the arma 3 package.

 

The only other possible thing I can think of that the game could use from a game mode/ editor standpoint is a BF2/halo 3 style battle recorder.

 

Even that I think probably exists already through mods.

[chrisb 196]

That is exactly what you are saying right there. Any part of the team will focus on their part of the game, so their time will not be spent on anything else. So no, that time could not have spent doing what you said.

 

I won't bother explaining what I mean to you. Obviously your not looking at it in the same way I am.

__

 

 

Speak for yourself mate. 

 

I am, don't worry, I wouldn't think to speak for you. :rolleyes:

[Flash-Ranger 195]

Wasn't convinced at first.. but it's nice ^^

[almanzo 144]

I like it. But it wasn't something we were desperate for in the vanilla game.

I completely disagree, back when OFP was released, the ingame editor was by far the most important feature of the entire game and that comes from someone who didn't care about mods or user generated content at all back then, and who played the hell out of the campaign. Mods and mission making was just a fun curiousity for me back then. However, the editor is what gave the game continuity, it was the main feature allowing a huge community to grow being a source for new and improved content.

At the time, the editor was innovative and very powerful. It allowed players to create new content for the game in a way few other games had provided before. It gave the rise to the coop scene, and I am pretty sure it at least contributed to creating the modding scene. Without the editor, the game would have died quickly. It has remained a very important tool for renewing the series, and among modding, it has kept the community alive. However, while the game has evolved massively since the time of OFP, the editor has remained pretty much the same. The 2d editor has been pretty outdated for quite a while, the demand for a 3D editor has been around since at least the launch of ARMA II. 3den as an editor has made the lives of veteran mission makers alot easier, and it has made it a lot easier for new mission makers and designers to begin making missions. Besides the 3D functionality, being able to edit text files from within the editor itself has made it so much easier to do mission making, it's pretty damned revolutionary.

3den is allmost as innovative as the original 2d editor was back in the day, and I think it is a crucial tool for the continuation of the series. While I agree that there is a lot to be desired on the AI front, no matter how good the AI is, if there isn't a continous stream of new scenarios and missions to play. No matter how clever the AI is, the same missions stops being fun after a while.

 

[dav 22]

I play single player editor only since A2. This update for me is just absolutely amazing. Managing units aresnal, height and utilities is so much more fun. Thankyou for this fantastic update.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[JackSouth19 0]

The new Eden Editor is awesome. I played ARMA 2 Operation Arrowhead and the 2D Editor was really difficult to use. Especially when it came to creating military bases and fortifications. I would have to preview and exit every time in order to re-adjust the placement of objects and because of this , i ended up spending more time fixing the positions of objects rather than playing the game. It really caused me to get bored of ARMA.

[Mirek 166]

I like it. But it wasn't something we were desperate for in the vanilla game.

I thing not many people would share that oppinion.  Its the second best thing ever happend to arma. (ACE3 being the first)

[OMAC 254]

After using Eden heavily over the last several days to make a mission, I must say that it so brilliantly conceived and executed that it is clearly an Arma revolution.  As I first got into it, I thought it was awesome, especially for making fortifications and placing units in buildings, but I wondered...  damn, I wish there was a quick way to connect placed units to Virtual Arsenal to make custom loadouts.  That would be fantastic, I thought.  Then I right-clicked and saw the little "Arsenal" icon.  :D  Oh yeah.  :bigglasses:   Just the little graphical representations of weapons and ammo make the whole thing worth it.  And the search option for units/objects! 

 

I do sometimes get flaky things happen when I click Spectate in SP, like I'm suddenly in stratosphere looking down.  Other times it works great.  I must be doing something wrong.

[Wehwehchen 0]

I started the Eden Editor today and was hooked instantly! Making missions more than playing right now .. lol.

[daytrader 33]

The addon/mod Enhanced 3den is a must-have for this too :)

What does it add to the new 3deditor, and where do i get it from, being new to arma 3, cheers

[slan 10]

Hello I found also that Eden is a big improvement (object placement for example) but have you found a way to have the location as the map in mission [030061] and not the x and y numbers in the editor ?

 

[ziga.cernic4@hotmail.com 1]

Yeah eden is very good.

[Tavish 41]

What does it add to the new 3deditor, and where do i get it from, being new to arma 3, cheers

It adds loads of extra functionality and options without adding dependencies for users. (eg once a mission is built using Eden Enhanced, the mod is not required to play it)

 

Steam Workshop, armaholic.com or BIS forums. 

 

 

EDIT - My 3den GUI scaling is all wrong, which is totally ruining my day. If you have similar problems let BIS know on the feedback tracker.

[Guest]

 

EDIT - My 3den GUI scaling is all wrong, which is totally ruining my day. If you have similar problems let BIS know on the feedback tracker.

They know it, work is being done about it on dev branch.

[Tavish 41]

Oh good, thanks for heads up.

 

I'll have to wait for the fix. It's unusable for me. the attributes window exploded into super big mode and hides some options... :(

[kylania 568]

What does it add to the new 3deditor, and where do i get it from, being new to arma 3, cheers

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/188312-3den-enhanced/

[Gunter Severloh 4057]

tbh i prefer the 2d editors mission loading setup over edens, its more specific and cuts out alot of loading time.