Helicopter General BUT Essential Improvements

[JohnKalo 657]

What i, and many other players, would really like to see is:

 

Pushable Helicopter buttons. When you are in the cockpit of a helicopter it is really dissapointing that no buttons can be pressed.

A start up procedure for helicopters. You have already got startup procedures in Take on Helicopters. Why not have then in the Arma 3 helicopter DLC too? You have advanced flight models but no startup procedures?  :confused:

 

Working helicopter ramps. Why cant we just get in the helicopter via the ramp? It would be very awesome if we could embark and disembark via the ramp. I would really like to hover in front of a cliff so as for the assault team to disembark on the cliff via the ramp. Or in a tall building or something.

The possibility to load vehicles on helicopters. You can slingload them yes but why not be able to place an assault boat in a helicopter so as for the players to eject while they are in the boat and start moving around with the boat immediately.

 

Fast rope from helicopters. Why do we have to download mods for that? Modders can do it. Cant you? :)

 

The ability to equip all choppers with a search light. How can we do SAR missions without a searchlight?

The ability to open the helicopter doors and remove some of their turrets. 

The ability to use wipers on helicopters.

 

 

Thats it for now. I hope we will see these improvements implemented ingame 

[Jackal326 1181]

So, basically you want this?

[JohnKalo 657]

Oh, I got that one. I have played the campaign of Take on Helicopters twice. I have played many hours of multiplayer too. It is an awesome game and I really cant stop wondering why devs didn't implement all of its features in Arma 3.

[John Spartan 89]

@helicopterenthusiast, different games and different design goals for each would be the answer. But "FastRoping" would fit ARMA series indeed...

[domokun 515]

@helicopterenthusiast, different games and different design goals for each would be the answer. But "FastRoping" would fit ARMA series indeed...

This x100 000.

And that search light would be welcome too.

Particularly one that could be shot out!

Can you imagine how intense that would be visually and psychologically?

It would certainly with Night Ops in pre-NVG conflicts, e.g. Bush Wars, Vietnam, Korea, WW2, etc.

[chortles 263]

Pushable Helicopter buttons. When you are in the cockpit of a helicopter it is really dissapointing that no buttons can be pressed.

A start up procedure for helicopters. You have already got startup procedures in Take on Helicopters. Why not have then in the Arma 3 helicopter DLC too? You have advanced flight models but no startup procedures?  :confused:

Pretty much what john_spartan said, because "infantry focus" isn't just a thing they tell the players... like it or not (I'd admittedly like the option) they've been saying that one for years and there's been no public signs of internal interest in changing course here.

Working helicopter ramps. Why cant we just get in the helicopter via the ramp? It would be very awesome if we could embark and disembark via the ramp. I would really like to hover in front of a cliff so as for the assault team to disembark on the cliff via the ramp. Or in a tall building or something.

The possibility to load vehicles on helicopters. You can slingload them yes but why not be able to place an assault boat in a helicopter so as for the players to eject while they are in the boat and start moving around with the boat immediately.

Unfortunately both of these fall under the same issue: it is in fact perfectly possible to create a walkable helicopter interior that can be driven into and out of on the ground (or in midair with a static helicopter) but once airborne or otherwise moving, all bets are off...

Additional notes: This may or may not be the same issue that hampered "walkable moving ships" for over a decade, and is why in vehicles such as the LCAC or CUP's C-130J you'll see "Secure Vehicle"-type user actions/scripting. I'll note however that the game doesn't support picking a specific passenger seat -- FFV seats are treated differently -- so fixing the issue I've described wouldn't immediately let you pick a specific non-FFV seat, a benefit which may be viewed internally as very marginal compared to potential issues.

The ability to open the helicopter doors and remove some of their turrets.

I don't recall that capability being in Take On Helicopters? At least, not as something that wasn't a heavily scripted hide animation/removeWeapon.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I had already made this suggestion in high detail, at least regarding interaction. As Chortles also mentioned, it's simply just another one of those things that isn't a priority.

[JohnKalo 657]

Can you imagine how intense that would be visually and psychologically?

 

It would be amazing. In Take on Helicopters we had made a mission where the players had to find a small opfor camp that had hostages in a big forest. We were 3 guys playing. The pilot was flying. The copilot was searching with the search light and the commander was using his thermal camera. We had played that mission so many times because the opfor camp location changed. After we located them, the commander and copilot fastroped and rescued the hostages. After that. the ground team moved the hostages to a safe place, where the helicopter could actually land. It was great fun  :)

 different games and different design goals for each would be the answer

 "infantry focus"

 

I see your point but the Helicopter DLC isnt exactly free! Since there is a helicopter pack there should be more content in it

Unfortunately both of these fall under the same issue: it is in fact perfectly possible to create a walkable helicopter interior that can be driven into and out of on the ground (or in midair with a static helicopter) but once airborne or otherwise moving, all bets are off...

 

But other games have such things I believe. Games such as Battlefield if I remember correctly where you walk for a bit till you parachute from the plane. Is it that hard? I mean, cant you just make the players always be in the same altitude as the helicopter? 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

It would be amazing. In Take on Helicopters we had made a mission where the players had to find a small opfor camp that had hostages in a big forest. We were 3 guys playing. The pilot was flying. The copilot was searching with the search light and the commander was using his thermal camera. We had played that mission so many times because the opfor camp location changed. After we located them, the commander and copilot fastroped and rescued the hostages. After that. the ground team moved the hostages to a safe place, where the helicopter could actually land. It was great fun :)

I see your point but the Helicopter DLC isnt exactly free! Since there is a helicopter pack there should be more content in it

But other games have such things I believe. Games such as Battlefield if I remember correctly where you walk for a bit till you parachute from the plane. Is it that hard? I mean, cant you just make the players always be in the same altitude as the helicopter?

To be fair, the Helicopter DLC did bring a decent amount of content. Two helicopters and a handful of decorative editor places me objects, including a weather cone. Plus the features, Firing from Vehicles, Sling Loading, and the Advanced Flight Model. Now of course there are some things that I believe still need tweaking like the sound of the helicopters. For some reason all Arma 3 Helicopters have the exact same start up sound, and the engine sounds are also pretty much the same, barley distinct of each other. But things like the interactive buttons and such, while its probably doable to some extent, that's something that takes time. I've mentioned this as I said before, you could probably find the discussion somewhere in the Genaral Dev Branch section somewhere around the time BI had mentioned improving the interaction menu and such. But I don't think we'll ever see the full fletched TKOH interaction model, unfortunately, as we all know how amazing that would be.

If there is any point we'll see anything regarding imroved interaction, it'd likely come after Apex.

[msy 22]

The most important thing to improve for chopper is that: the chopper shouldn't always explode when crash to ground.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Well, my last suggestion would be for someone to contact the guy who was working on this mod (https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/152734-advanced-cockpit-interaction/), and see if he's still active or see if someone can take over development if not than you'll just have to wait till after Apex and see if Bi are interested in any such update.

[chortles 263]

I see your point but the Helicopter DLC isnt exactly free! Since there is a helicopter pack there should be more content in it

I was answering re: the flight model/lack of interactive cockpit and not the content and you know it.  :angry: Although for what it's worth, if unsurprising to me personally, DayZ's lead producer is also aiming below Take On Helicopters as far as rotary-wing FM fidelity, whether or not interactive dashboard/cockpit is an actual goal (they did after all implement manual transmission, albeit in a linear chain of shift up/shift down).

But other games have such things I believe. Games such as Battlefield if I remember correctly where you walk for a bit till you parachute from the plane. Is it that hard?

In Arma (Real Virtuality) unfortunately yes.  :wacko: There is at least one scripted solution out there, but as an engine-native thing... I haven't seen a fix in DayZ (Enfusion) either, and I'm not familiar enough with Take On Mars (Enforce) to know if that engine has the fix. If you're thinking of the older games like Battlefield 1942... the modern Frostbite-based Battlefield games have used fixed-position seats just like Arma, so I'm not so familiar with whether walking-on-moving-vehicles is doable in Frostbite without DICE programmers having to resort to a "hacky" workaround.

[JohnKalo 657]

Now of course there are some things that I believe still need tweaking like the sound of the helicopters.

 

Yep, I agree.

But things like the interactive buttons and such, while its probably doable to some extent, that's something that takes time.

 

It doesnt take time simply bacause they got this feaure already in Take on Helicopters and to be honest the Arma 3 helicopter modules look almost exactly like the TOH helicopter modules :d:

The most important thing to improve for chopper is that: the chopper shouldn't always explode when crash to ground.

 

So true... Helicopters are destroyed way too easily. I autorotated to the ground once and all was well but then .... a small rock appeared and BOOM! The chopper blew up. That also happens with walls and many more. Additionally, I shall add that the effectiveness of opfor AA is insane. Once those guys lock your chopper you will be hit. 90% chance! Although they dont need to shoot you with a launcher. Some mashine gun fire is more than enough. If this was realistic, nobody would equip their armies with helicopters plainly because they are brought down way too easily.

Well, my last suggestion would be for someone to contact the guy who was working on this mod (https://forums.bistu...it-interaction/), and see if he's still active or see if someone can take over development if not than you'll just have to wait till after Apex and see if Bi are interested in any such update.

 

I checked that thread. It is inactive for years sadly. I have also placed a request in the mod request subforums a while ago but no luck there either

so I'm not so familiar with whether walking-on-moving-vehicles is doable in Frostbite without DICE programmers having to resort to a "hacky" workaround.

 

If only a dev would post some kind of reply and explain to us if this feature is doable  <_<

[inlesco 233]

For parachuting, I assume BF has a single animation playing X seconds before the jump out and that's basically it. There's no magic in this.

 

Even a repearing animation would be nice, however, when the same repeats over and over again, player get annoyed and bored,

although they wouldn't have thought about it as something that may get boring time after time in the first place.

 

So cosmetic features like these are... pretty pointless. Unless your devs don't have anything else to do, you assign them to tackle a task like that. Amiright?

[JohnKalo 657]

Unless your devs don't have anything else to do, you assign them to tackle a task like that. Amiright?

 

I just want them to make a post in order to tell us if what we are talking about is doable. I dont like having false hope 

[x3kj 1247]

none of the improvements in the OP are essential... they are merely nice to have. And so are a bucketload of the other tickets provided in the feedbacktracker. So get back into line.

[JohnKalo 657]

none of the improvements in the OP are essential... they are merely nice to have. And so are a bucketload of the other tickets provided in the feedbacktracker. So get back into line.

 

You must have no idea on how to pilot a helicopter ingame... If you aren't playing Arma 3 as a pilot you cannot know what is essential and what isnt.

[roshnak 41]

You must have no idea on how to pilot a helicopter ingame... If you aren't playing Arma 3 as a pilot you cannot know what is essential and what isnt.

 

Seems like a pretty silly thing to say. In what way are wipers essential to helicopter flight in a game where rain doesn't hit the windscreen?

[x3kj 1247]

Oh i see what the problem is. Roshnak, it doesnt happen, but that's just for us noobs who have never touched the game at all. When you are a pro level (certified) highspeed operator pilot, then your whole screen will be plastered in raindrops and you can't see! It must be horrible. I assume he also means, that the helicopter won't start without pushable buttons, keyboard shortcuts or action menu just stop working at that skill level. I imagine that must be very tough, so much skill but the machine is just totally unusable...

[twisted 128]

The most important thing to improve for chopper is that: the chopper shouldn't always explode when crash to ground.

 

this - its the single worst thing that stops me using afm. silly really.

[JohnKalo 657]

Ok guys, I will admit that the wipers aint ESSENTIAL but when you fly in heavy rain situations you cant really see anything so that might have helped.

And I dont think I am an expert pilot man. I am just trying to make this game better. And pushable buttons ALREADY exist in TOH so it aint hard to implement them. There is nothing realistic when you start up the helicopter in a few seconds by using one key.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Ok guys, I will admit that the wipers aint ESSENTIAL but when you fly in heavy rain situations you cant really see anything so that might have helped.

And I dont think I am an expert pilot man. I am just trying to make this game better. And pushable buttons ALREADY exist in TOH so it aint hard to implement them. There is nothing realistic when you start up the helicopter in a few seconds by using one key.

That is NOT essential, and here's why. RV4 doesn't have the ability to obscure your vision with rain, neither on a player's lense, or on a helicopter window. Why have windshield wipers when it will simply be a moving object on the screen and not actually improving your vision anyways. This can also be experienced with RHS vehicles. I suggest you go grab that mod, get in a UAZ, put rain at absolute full and turn on the wipers. Then be amused at how much it does NOT improve your vision.

Also, as per mentioned before, something like this is not a Priority really, the most BI are doing in terms of visual improvements are vastly better lighting technology, and water shaders. Aside from that, every other ounce of effort is being poured into Apex development. So if any more enhancements come in this regard, it would be a few months after Apex release.

[devilslayersbane 28]

As far as walking out of vehicles to exit them, this can be done via animations to an extent. However, this would be somewhat of an arduous task as only the seats nearest the door would have a non-teleporty translation. Although if the animation engine were able to support say like a looping animation until a certain point on a vehicle, that'd be cool. Let me draw you a crude picture via text.

 

U=seat

P=Player

___=ramp

 

                  P-> straight animation, walk off ramp

UUUUUUUU___

 

P-looping----> looping animation and then walk off ramp

UUUUUUUU___

 

That'd be cool. BUT then you have the issues of the side doors being entry/exit points on some vehicles, so you'd need an extra "get out via ramp" option.

[thecanadianvending 24]

ARMA != ToH. ARMA is primarily a infantry based simulator. Why would they want to increase complexity for a very niche feature? I'm sure that 90% of all the ARMA pilots don't want to go through a startup sequence, and if it was toggle-able they would have a disadvantage to those who aren't doing the startup.

 

If you want to do helicopter start-ups play DCS or ToH.

[Airwolf 50]

I really think they need to fix the way the choppers react to joystick's first. I still can't believe how poor the throttle and stick response is after all these years. in AFM it's better, but in standard it's horrible.