A plea from someone with lazy, stubborn friends

[mistyronin 1181]

So get off your high horses and see it from the perspective of new people/less experienced people to the series.

What if we see it from the perspective of those who spent hundreds of hours (even a dozens years, literally) working in something so you can enjoy it for free.  ;)

I really think that if it's too much of an effort to use an alright method... maybe for the late 90's/early 2000's... Then probably you shouldn't waste that 2 minutes that it may take to get it working and use your time doing something else. 

[war_lord 934]

Steam workshop is a crap service from a modder perspective for updating and uploading because the service frequently refuses to accept updates (which is why Toadie abandoned it), comments sections frequently devolve into a sewer of demanding brats (compared to the self policing nature of the modding communities) and the EULA you have to agree to signs all ownership of all of your content over to Valve. All rights and ethics sacrificed at the altar of instant gratification and groundless entitlement. 

My personal stance on it is that if you're too lazy to learn to use mods without the aid of an automatic installer, you don't deserve to use them. Asking a modder to sign away his IP rights for the sake of your ingrate friends is frankly disgusting. 

[djotacon 190]

Steam workshop is a crap service from a modder perspective for updating and uploading because the service frequently refuses to accept updates (which is why Toadie abandoned it), comments sections frequently devolve into a sewer of demanding brats (compared to the self policing nature of the modding communities) and the EULA you have to agree to signs all ownership of all of your content over to Valve. All rights and ethics sacrificed at the altar of instant gratification and groundless entitlement. 

My personal stance on it is that if you're too lazy to learn to use mods without the aid of an automatic installer, you don't deserve to use them. Asking a modder to sign away his IP rights for the sake of your ingrate friends is frankly disgusting. 

 

"devolve into a sewer of demanding brats"

 

And this thread is a great example of that.

 

Now the youngsters thinks that the modders are his personal slaves.

 

I see inside the STEAM the long arm of the lobbiers bulliying to anyone that no think like them. Populating entire threads with false debates and using false account to spam all the forums.

 

Now, to me this is another thread to gain more and more control.

 

Why? Because in the community sites there's a strong moderators that prevents those behaviours and they dont have any power.

 

If you are a "lazy blah, blah" you dont come here to make a thread to ask something... to me this is other attemp to force people to make the things like the want.

 

No thank you.

[soulis6 24]

"devolve into a sewer of demanding brats"

 

And this thread is a great example of that.

 

Now the youngsters thinks that the modders are his personal slaves.

 

I see inside the STEAM the long arm of the lobbiers bulliying to anyone that no think like them. Populating entire threads with false debates and using false account to spam all the forums.

 

Now, to me this is another thread to gain more and more control.

 

Why? Because in the community sites there's a strong moderators that prevents those behaviours and they dont have any power.

 

If you are a "lazy blah, blah" you dont come here to make a thread to ask something... to me this is other attemp to force people to make the things like the want.

 

No thank you.

 

Wow, this sounds like a crazy person's meltdown rant.

 

Steam is bullying anyone who doesn't think like them? Jesus christ. 

 

I have no response other than: some people genuinely want to play with their friends, and no matter how invested or willing the person in question are to put in the work, many of their friends are not. It doesn't make these friends bad or lazy or terrible, they just view their gaming/free/entertainment time differently. When you have kids or have a job with a lot of responsibilities, and have precious little free time to yourself, your willingness to put up with barriers in between you and the game shrinks drastically.

 

And again, I don't necessarily think that steam is the answer, but I think it's totally valid to want a better solution to just say 'do it yourself', which is basically saying 'play alone' in some situations. I think it's worth talking about what other good options might be, instead of just bullying (which was what you're doing) the OP and having name calling tantrums.

[djotacon 190]

Wow, this sounds like a crazy person's meltdown rant.

 

 

Yeah sure!

A very polite comment which confirms my observation.

 

Today steam is the Wild West for modders , and ask that upload more mods there is a synonymous that you have mod robbery bulliying and threats

 

In STEAM  the modders work is not respected and to me the experience is "horrible".

 

Right now I'm against make any upload to STEAM and all my mission and future works will be outside of this network.

[Mirek 166]

Kid asks for a fawor, even says please.

 

What i would expect:

1. Yeah kiddo no problem

or

2. Sorry kido i wont.

 

What actually happends:

1. You go f*ck yourself kiddo we are the best and smartest and you are nothing!!!

and

2. You thing we are your slaves? We put so much effort and you are nothing. Go fu*ck yourself you brat.

 

Very nice civil and inteligent comunity we are, arent we?

[Ranwer135 308]

I find It appalling that when I share content on the steam workshop, nasty comments will always appear such as "When is the next f****** update!", or "Don't download it, its a waste of time". People expect the most out of us modders, when really it takes a hell of a long time just to create their so-called 'dream content'.

People here understand the effort we make into these mods which boosts encouragement. (Such as myself, I have been working on my project for at least 2 years and Its not released yet)

Steam Workshop is very unreliable as you are prone to hackers or added contributors, who can edit your content with 'ease' without your permission. (Because your account Is connected to financial details...)

I can accept the benefits of BI making the game more known to Steam with that feature (and Steam Workshop is handy in many ways). But without an external requirement feature, I don't want to be able to constantly throw the book at players who can't get that content Installed, because they are 'Lazy'.

Not only that, we have Rules and Regulations about piracy. BI will not tolerate ripped content from many games like BF4 or DayZ. And since the maintenance of this website, 3 Threads (and possibly more) have been shutdown because of this. However, Steam Workshop has little authority about this, which I am concerned about.

Lastly, does Steam Workshop have a Discussion thread for WIP mods? Of course not, duh! Which is why this community here has remained publishing content on Armaholic since OFP.

If you want thousands (possibly at least 100,000+) of content ported from Armaholic into Steam Workshop, be my guest and do it with your magical 'Lazy' way. (But don't expect to cry to me that you couldn't reach many of the users for permission, as many of them have ceased from being 'ONLINE')

Best Regards, :)

Ranwer135

Side note: And if you want 'Slave' modders, go and ask Cleopatra, I'm sure she would be kind to you...

[djotacon 190]

Kid asks for a fawor, even says please.

 

What i would expect:

1. Yeah kiddo no problem

or

2. Sorry kido i wont.

 

What actually happends:

1. You go f*ck yourself kiddo we are the best and smartest and you are nothing!!!

and

2. You thing we are your slaves? We put so much effort and you are nothing. Go fu*ck yourself you brat.

 

Very nice civil and inteligent comunity we are, arent we?

 

Who say this?

 

Dont put in mouth words that I dont say.

 

I'm against uploading content and I write my opinion in this forum that's all.

 

But I see your steps...

 

And I a mod creator and a mission developer is my decision who, where, and when I put my creations.

[Mirek 166]

1. I didnt put anything to anything. I expressed the oweral feeling i get from most of the posts here.

 

2. I just realized that i automaticaly assumed that the OP is underage. I apologize if iam mistaken.

[Ranwer135 308]

1. I didnt put anything to anything. I expressed the oweral feeling i get from most of the posts here.

 

2. I just realized that i automaticaly assumed that the OP is underage. I apologize if iam mistaken.

I honestly think they should put an age restriction to about at least 16, like they did before. No offense, but I have seen many that act under 6, and yet the game Is clearly "MA 15+" for us in Australia.

[chompster 29]

I honestly think they should put an age restriction to about at least 16, like they did before. No offense, but I have seen many that act under 6, and yet the game Is clearly "MA 15+" for us in Australia.

How would they keep all the Armalife servers populated then? This clearly isn't an option, Armalife is after all the priority targeted audience.

 

 

 

B)

[Ranwer135 308]

How would they keep all the Armalife servers populated then? This clearly isn't an option, Armalife is after all the priority targeted audience.

 

 

 

B)

 

Even so...But kids were into Arma Life way back when this feature was added.  ;)  (And they weren't particularly interested in the forums here...Until now.  :rolleyes: )

 

 

BTW: Thread was 2/5 Star, so I was generous to rate it -1.  :P (Wait a sec...Oh no its now 1/5 Star...Your welcome!  :D )

[gossamersolid 155]

What if we see it from the perspective of those who spent hundreds of hours (even a dozens years, literally) working in something so you can enjoy it for free.  ;)

I really think that if it's too much of an effort to use an alright method... maybe for the late 90's/early 2000's... Then probably you shouldn't waste that 2 minutes that it may take to get it working and use your time doing something else.

You do know that I, like you, have spent thousands of hours on the series developing content as well, right? You don't need to explain what it's like.

I have never had an issues with how mods install as I've been playing since OFP. I don't know why you feel the need to defend how mods are currently acquired and downloaded. This is basically on the level of "well it's been done this way forever, we don't need change". Change is good, change is necessary for the progression of civilization in general.

I still want to see BIS implement a method of allowing server operators to have addons get downloaded upon connection and then have them load automatically.

As for some of the other people in the thread... I don't even have words to describe how silly you guys sound. You're not the next best thing since sliced bread. Get over yourselves.

[semiconductor 309]

Change is good, change is necessary for the progression of civilization in general.

But surprisingly enough Valve didn't make Workshop for the sake of "progression of civilization in general". They did it because they want to tie both players and developers to their platform in order to become a monopoly and milk every cent possible out of those who became dependent on them.

I personally don't like an idea of Workshop (and Steam-only distribution in general) for this exact reason, not because I'm some sort of backwards religious fanatic whose holy book orders him to install mods manually. We already have EA, we all saw how it ruined some of the most amazing series for the sake of profits and I don't want Valve to became another EA that can dictate its rules to the entire PC gaming community.

[bad benson 1733]

i think this is one of those threads that was doomed right at its conception.

 

the whole topic is and will always be one of the polarized ones. and since the thread started with simply one person of one of the both extreme sides of the spectrum stating his subjective opinion and asking everyone to conform, this was bound to happen.

 

i think next time it would be good to start with a question of what can be done to improve the overall situation and some possible solutions. simply stating your opinion of "i think people should do X" will get you no where. shouldn't we know better by now? :lol: just kidding of course not. this is how we roll :D

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

i'm personally on the fence on this one. right in the middle. i love connecting with people who like my stuff in such a direct manner (SWS) but i totally see armaholic having a huge advantage in the fact that it moderates content BEFORE it gets uploaded which makes SWS and the creators who acually spend time of their days to hunt down uploads look insane and the process crazy tedious for no reason. but i get that the question who would moderate the arma workshop section could be tricky. not unsolvable though.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

i think the whole armaholic VS SWS debate is a useless one. that's the wrong question to ask. in my eyes there can be convenience cooexisting with variety.

 

in my (humble) opinion it's totally wrong to demand what would basically be a 100% central mirror. there's no benefit there. the opposite. once it shuts down, for whatever reason, we're fucked. always good to have backups and alternative means.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

what i think is needed is a central hub, a universial connector of all the mirrors provided by BIS. the launcher.

 

i think the launcher is cool and all but, as with many things with BIS, i think it's just a small taste of would could be. awesome start for sure though.

 

i have proposed this elsewhere but since, like everyone else, i'm in love with my own ideas, i'll just repeat it here before this thread turns into a vortex inferno leading directly to hell.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

it would be great if the official launcher would be able to pick up links similar to torrent files (lack of better comparison) so you could integrate armaholic (or any site) into it. so you'd basically just run one file you get on armaholic and it automatically puts it into the launcher and the rest is automated.

 

with that kind of tech you could do all kinds of things. clans could use their own servers and just pass around those link files. all people would have to do is run the file to create an entry in the launcher, exactly like when you subscribe on SWS, and make the launcher feed from the custom mirror.

 

something modular like that would mirror the whole state of arma since years much better. which is a modular pile of everything all connected into something cool. arma is like the opposite of central. i think that should be embraced by passive connectors to keep the best of both worlds.

 

and please remember guys. there are even more benefits to those fansites than the ones i mentioned. so it might be a bit early to turn your back and hiss "go F yourself we don't need you anymore...we got new toys now" :P

[Hate 232]

It must be noted, however, that Armaholic does not automatically update downloaded mods, whereas Steam workshop does exactly that--which saves immeasurable time when you run more than a few mods. Despite any distrust of Valve or the workshop, you can't deny pure efficiency.

 

What Armaholic could use to boost attendence and traffic or whatever is a livestream page for big missions, in the same way you can watch big CSGO matches from the game page or other websites.

 

But that's just my opinion, sirs and ladies.

[bad benson 1733]

What Armaholic could use to boost attendence and traffic or whatever is a livestream page for big missions, in the same way you can watch big CSGO matches from the game page or other websites.

 

it's not that i dislike the idea as such but what does that have to do with anything? i don't think this is about popularity in general but more about mod distribution and how convenient it is.

 

glad you brought up the updating. i'd like to add that to my suggestion too. could be possible too with the linking i described, i think. not sure about traffic and stuff but checking if a file on some mirror is uptodate should be possible.

[gossamersolid 155]

But surprisingly enough Valve didn't make Workshop for the sake of "progression of civilization in general". They did it because they want to tie both players and developers to their platform in order to become a monopoly and milk every cent possible out of those who became dependent on them.

I personally don't like an idea of Workshop (and Steam-only distribution in general) for this exact reason, not because I'm some sort of backwards religious fanatic whose holy book orders him to install mods manually. We already have EA, we all saw how it ruined some of the most amazing series for the sake of profits and I don't want Valve to became another EA that can dictate its rules to the entire PC gaming community.

Read my previous post, I didn't say we should all switch over to steam workshop.

[semiconductor 309]

Read my previous post, I didn't say we should all switch over to steam workshop.

Oh, I see. Well, the point still stands since the thread is about Steam Workshop anyway.

[ProfTournesol 956]

The elitism... 

(...)

 

What's the harm in making a simple request? Other than the mob of 12 year olds who get spiteful and hateful every time someone doesn't agree with, or praise them.

 

Wow, when i read the beginning and the end of the post, i'm really eager to read (at 45 yo) what's in between !

 

 

Modders can do what they want with their work, fine by me. But, some of the "praise me" attitude turns me off from even bothering with some sites and some modders. It's supposed to be a community of sharing and collaboration. I run several large websites and online communities for a living. They are all 100% free to the end-user. If I acted like foxhound just did, every time someone has a problem or doesn't like something about the community, we would die a quick death. It's a two way street.

 

 

Precisely. While i dunno any of your  "community websites", i perfectly know how supportive Foxhound is and has been for our community. But what i know about people running those websites "for a living", it's the amount of "community websites" that uses free modders work to gain money with. There a BIG difference between real community websites and commercial ones, such as Steam workshop or others.

 

 

 

 

 

not feeling a need to suck their dick just to massage the child-like need for approval that some of them exude.

 

 

Wonderful.

[mistyronin 1181]

You do know that I, like you, have spent thousands of hours on the series developing content as well, right? You don't need to explain what it's like.

I have never had an issues with how mods install as I've been playing since OFP. I don't know why you feel the need to defend how mods are currently acquired and downloaded. This is basically on the level of "well it's been done this way forever, we don't need change". Change is good, change is necessary for the progression of civilization in general.

I still want to see BIS implement a method of allowing server operators to have addons get downloaded upon connection and then have them load automatically.

Seems you didn't understand my post at all.

Let me reformulate it:

As addon-makers are the ones who spent insane amounts of hours to bring free content for the community out of their free time you should respect their decisions. Addon-makers have the right to choose how they want to deliver their work (be it in Steam Workshop, in Armaholic, in PWS, in a ftp, or whatever system they fancy the most).

If people don't like how addon-makers deliver their work, then they shouldn't get their addons or mods. People should respect the authors' decisions.

For instance, at RHS we have to deal with a lot of people that illegally distribute our work through non authorized ways. That's a total lack of consideration for the author, it's illegal and punishable by law. 

I hope that now my position is clear. 

NOTE: I have also distributed some of my work through Steam Workshop. Even if I don't trust Valve at all. But I would never upload there anything important. 

[altis 12]

Fs.. even Armaholics making money through its ads, good on them... of course its all commercial, its the fuckn system we live in.

 

I hope steam or something as efficient becomes the norm soon, it will only help this game grow instead of hiding in the closet.

[JaykePC 5]

My personal view on this, if somebody cannot download a mod file and drag it into their arma folder I do not want them playing on my servers. I always see fox helping everywhere on his forums/site, I would much rather support Armaholic which has been a dedicated source for years now over steam.

[JdB 151]

Fs.. even Armaholics making money through its ads, good on them... of course its all commercial, its the fuckn system we live in.

Unless ad revenue paid out to site owners has increased dramatically over the last few years than the ad revenue will be less than half of the monthly cost (if that). I used to work on the OFPR.info site when it was as popular for OFP as Armaholic has been for ArmA. That server only ever cost loads of money, not earned it. Ad companies earn the money as well as websites that rely mainly on pageviews, not downloads, for the majority of their traffic. Free usage of file servers costs money without bringing anything in by itself.

[altis 12]

Unless ad revenue paid out to site owners has increased dramatically over the last few years than the ad revenue will be less than half of the monthly cost (if that).

I guess we will never know  :) and i dont wanna know, but i do know how much i make on my own websites.

 

Anyway its ot and its more about distribution of mods.