VBS2/3 Discussion thread - the one and only

[Laid3acK 79]

New VBS3 content list: http://resources.bisimulations.com/content/

Thanks but it's more interesting to check the "All content introduced in Version 3.00", you will see that it's not the principal improvement of this new version.

If anyone's reading this thread and contemplating buying VBS for the realism, I'll strongly advise against it. It's not a simulator by miles, it's a military training tool

Agree with that, don't expect to learn how fly, shoot, swim, walk, ..., with VBS1/2/3/4 ... It's not the goal, it's a training "tool", pedagogic aids for military instruction, not a game like ArmA1/2/3.

For a good infantry game, ArmA3 is great.

I beg your pardon for my poor english, have a good day.

[scrim 1]

Wounding, breathing, fatigue. VBS2 just smokes ArmA3 in those aspects alone. Sides in it are also realistic and have no arcade stuff like 1 APC with some fluff and 4 different names.

If you think you're like an asthmatic 500 pounder in A3, VBS2 is worse. Sprinting at max speed, which is rather slow, for even 10 meters and you appear to have a collapsed lung and can't run any further. That's how realistic the breathing and fatigue is.

Wounding is better for now, but I'd be surprised if A3 doesn't have the same limping around when shot in the leg before it's completed. The only trump card VBS2 will regain over A3 will be the dismemberment, which thanks to über democratic countries like Germany effectively pushing their super sensitive "WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" game legislation down the throat of every country in the world, can't be included in A3, because then people could wind up thinking war was a bit unpleasant.

[metalcraze 290]

If you think you're like an asthmatic 500 pounder in A3, VBS2 is worse. Sprinting at max speed, which is rather slow, for even 10 meters and you appear to have a collapsed lung and can't run any further. That's how realistic the breathing and fatigue is.

You are grossly exaggerating. Plus there are actual fatigue penalties unlike ArmA3 which has next to none apart from stuff that makes no difference - and is disabled atm too (20% slower running speed? What a joke)

Wounding is better for now, but I'd be surprised if A3 doesn't have the same limping around when shot in the leg before it's completed.

Except ArmA3 doesn't have even that. And won't have that. Thinking that BIS will add any realism to ArmA3 is nothing but a dream at this point.

I'm glad you at least agreed about factions being one and the same. Which actually matters to gameplay much more than any limping or bleeding out.

[froggyluv 2136]

You are grossly exaggerating. Plus there are actual fatigue penalties unlike ArmA3 which has next to none apart from stuff that makes no difference - and is disabled atm too (20% slower running speed? What a joke)

.

No he's not. I'm actually a fan of real fatige systems but VBS2 is over the top. I've got grandma's who can run better than those tools with 40lb weight vests on their chests no less. Atrocious. And the aiming inertia is equally as bad.

[scrim 1]

You are grossly exaggerating. Plus there are actual fatigue penalties unlike ArmA3 which has next to none apart from stuff that makes no difference - and is disabled atm too (20% slower running speed? What a joke)

Do you even have VBS2? Because right now, I can count two people who do, and both are telling you that's very much the case.

And just assuming that BIS won't do anything more with wounding is just as dumb as a dodo bird is dead.

[papanowel 120]

No he's not. I'm actually a fan of real fatige systems but VBS2 is over the top. I've got grandma's who can run better than those tools with 40lb weight vests on their chests no less. Atrocious. And the aiming inertia is equally as bad.

Sad but true, I was really surprised when I first start VBS 2 2.00... hopefully you can disable it.

It's just a bad joke this fatigue system.

[dm 9]

The fatigue is god awful, and yes, you can disable it:

Options -> Simulation Settings -> under "Simulation" -> "Realistic fatigue" (lol) -> Enabled/Disabled

[chrisb 196]

In the UK VTK version (which is probably way out of date now), its in difficulty settings (fatigue).

But for VBS2, its great for a training tool, as for using it as a game, well, its great for a training tool.;)

[chortles 263]

Hmmm...

[metalcraze 290]

Do you even have VBS2? Because right now, I can count two people who do, and both are telling you that's very much the case.

Yes I have VBS2. The amount of fatigue build up is up to a discussion but the point here is that fatigue matters in VBS2 and in ArmA3 it doesn't at all.

And just assuming that BIS won't do anything more with wounding is just as dumb as a dodo bird is dead.

Are you seriously telling me that after all the effort BIS has put into the dumbing down of wounding system and building 30 missions around it they will start working to at least revert it to how it was before? That's being naive.

[scrim 1]

Well, now it's five people saying that it is indeed that awful, and then there's you.

And exactly how would it be that terribly hard to include people limping around when shot in the leg, and leaving visual blood trails? Aside from the dismemberment and visible tourniquets as opposed to invisible ones, that is all that VBS2 has over A3. For now.

[progamer 14]

Well, now it's five people saying that it is indeed that awful, and then there's you.

And exactly how would it be that terribly hard to include people limping around when shot in the leg, and leaving visual blood trails? Aside from the dismemberment and visible tourniquets as opposed to invisible ones, that is all that VBS2 has over A3. For now.

It has Landbuilder, which makes Visitor do anything basically. Wish we got Landbuilder. Or that modders could do something like it.

[scrim 1]

I was still talking in terms of realism.

[sparks50 0]

This educational machinima series is well made and entertaining. I thought I would post it here for anyone who may have missed it.

It is based on a fictional novella about counter-insurgency.

[progamer 14]

New VBS3 videos:

Snow!

Biotopes!

Improved vehicle simulation!

And the best for last, Physics-based Destructible Buildings!

---------- Post added at 01:47 ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 ----------

So for realism it was VBS2<Arma 2 ACE but now it's VBS3>Arma 3. Wish we could get updates like these in Arma 3. Can any of this be modded into Arma 3 with the quality and realism?

Edited December 10, 2013 by ProGamer

[noubernou 77]

Snow and Biotopes are easily doable in A3, Biotopes is pretty much pure scripting and there were community made systems in A2 that worked close to it.

Desctructable buildings is neat, but I'll be really impressed when I see it on buildings with complex textures, as how they are doing it now seems to be a fairly simple solution compared to other game engines (but good progress).

Vehicle slippage/traction control could be modeled in A3 (a bunch of those features are already included in A3, just not fully utilized).

Remember that VBS3 brings the core of the engine up to RV4, which is A3. VBS3 has additional features on top of that.

[progamer 14]

Snow and Biotopes are easily doable in A3, Biotopes is pretty much pure scripting and there were community made systems in A2 that worked close to it.

Desctructable buildings is neat, but I'll be really impressed when I see it on buildings with complex textures, as how they are doing it now seems to be a fairly simple solution compared to other game engines (but good progress).

Vehicle slippage/traction control could be modeled in A3 (a bunch of those features are already included in A3, just not fully utilized).

Remember that VBS3 brings the core of the engine up to RV4, which is A3. VBS3 has additional features on top of that.

I'll believe you when I see proof that these things can be done in Arma 3. It's not that I don't think you can do it, it's just that there could be unforeseen roadblocks. (Excluding destruction as we need the game to get support for it.)

---------- Post added at 03:42 ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 ----------

Vehicle slippage/traction control could be modeled in A3 (a bunch of those features are already included in A3, just not fully utilized

What? I searched for such a thing but never found it in Arma 3's configs.

[noubernou 77]

I'll believe you when I see proof that these things can be done in Arma 3. It's not that I don't think you can do it, it's just that there could be unforeseen roadblocks. (Excluding destruction as we need the game to get support for it.)

---------- Post added at 03:42 ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 ----------

What? I searched for such a thing but never found it in Arma 3's configs.

I already posted a proof of concept of the snow system a couple pages bac, what they are doing is just using a finer mesh than I am (probably dynamically changing mesh resolution based on what needs to be rendered, for example edge pieces along roads and around buildings have a higher mesh complexity than general terrain coverage.

The Biotopes is basic procedural generation of terrain objects. Look at Dynamic-AI-Creator for A2, it had a number of functions that did this.

Vehicle slippage combines a lot of the improved gearbox system that is configable in A3, along with some of the slippage features they already had in VBS2. It is not hard to simulate this in A3.

[froggyluv 2136]

Bigger question is are the Personal Edition owners eligible for the upgrade

[jsmuk 13]

Bigger question is are the Personal Edition owners eligible for the upgrade

No one knows, the last update was that we would find out in December. That was a couple of months ago.

[snYpir 0]

We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. It's cool how PE users help out our non-PE users on our forums - the PE users know their stuff! We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)

For the record, VBS3 is not directly based on the Arma3 engine. We branched following Arma2, and now we bring tech across as we need it. We still work fairly closely with the game team but military requirements continuously take VBS away from the Arma engine. Every now and then tech goes the other way, for example the thermal model in Arma is based upon the VBS implementation.

The new snow tech was built for the Swedes, because apparently they have a lot of snow. It was going to be an offline implementation (i.e. convert a terrain to be snowy), but the programmers figured out how to do it all at runtime using shader magic. We're quite proud of it. Lakes and rivers will freeze as well. Snow + biotopes allow us to build a single terrain for all four seasons.

I'm happy to answer questions on VBS if you like. We are strongly focused on military simulation but many of our team come from the OFP and Arma communities. We are always looking for new hires in Prague and Orlando, btw :p

[scrim 1]

We are still thinking about VBS3 Personal Edition (PE). Generally we don't see any negatives. It's cool how PE users help out our non-PE users on our forums - the PE users know their stuff! We are also considering alternative pricing models to make it more accessible (no promises) :)

Would that mean existing PE owners are repayed the difference from when they bought it? :p joking.

[Pyronick 21]

Wow, the physics-based destructible buildings and slip regulation look amazing! I wonder if the latter also works with differential effects, so that one must use differential lock to gain extra traction!

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

So for realism it was VBS2<Arma 2 ACE but now it's VBS3>Arma 3. Wish we could get updates like these in Arma 3. Can any of this be modded into Arma 3 with the quality and realism?

Yes. All of it I would like would think think.

[snYpir 0]

Wish we could get updates like these in Arma 3. Can any of this be modded into Arma 3 with the quality and realism?

Full PhysX implementation is the best way for many of these features to be implemented. And you have to go the whole way to do it right. E.g. the only reason the tank can destruct the building is because both the tank and building are simulated using PhysX.

PhysX does allow differentials to be simulated to a high degree of fidelity. PhysX is really awesome :)