Make Arma Not War - Winners

[chortles 263]

Not from an unknown panel of Jury who maybe never played the game like we did.

They announced this from the beginning and it was specifically a response to concerns about judging via community popularity contest, hence why only SP finalists were decided that way.

If my source is correct that PC gamers who had jurist partner in your contest, how can you make a third party website jurist and not the community ?

Devs (four including the CEO) plus community combined were a plurality of the jurists; Andrew Capel is community, another jurist is a former dev who himself published missions back in the day, and another is PC Gamer's most overt Arma fan (who has been since A2).

[SaOk 112]

Player votes definitely wasnt meant to be counted, but I just strongly believe e.g. mine wasnt just quick popularity. Havent had visiblity in workshop for 1,5 years. Many other entries had their front paged, campaign entries even multiple times since missions very made available one by one adding them votes from early enthusiasm that may not show long time value. Still there is much factors. I hoped jury would have given more focus on projects that have special own structure, testing them very long and maybe even communicating with author to understand what they see (I think this would have been important). Then especially if looking not good, having faster 1-2hour run on reqular non-dynamic campaigns since its endless times easier to see if its good or not.

MANW idea was still to find possible new DayZ (not maybe zombies), it dosent do any good if searching that just by looking quick at the box. I fully believe I would have had to offer something unique for the SP dynamic military sandbox (maybe there is less players than for zombie rpg) that have unlimited ways still to expand and improve it. I can work on it fully by myself - design, create, tweak, optimize, test it, listen community feedback, make it like the target player group wants it and much customization ways and full mod support. Hoped and maybe still hoping it would have payed with some kind of co-operation with BIS to work on it partly together (BIS helping with logos, english and story...). Maybe it would had become something fanzy.

Edited March 29, 2015 by SaOk

[DatSync 16]

They announced this from the beginning and it was specifically a response to concerns about judging via community popularity contest, hence why only SP finalists were decided that way.Devs (four including the CEO) plus community combined were a plurality of the jurists; Andrew Capel is community, another jurist is a former dev who himself published missions back in the day, and another is PC Gamer's most overt Arma fan (who has been since A2).

Well my source was not correct about the jury but that still suck in my opinion its like if BIS would force people to play Altis Life to mil sims players or DayZ to zombie hater. Community are formed by players and to know that vote didn't count I think its bad.

Anyway this contest will make drama for long time thanks for all people who was involved and making great things to Arma 3 if they was not there people like me would never play Arma 3 because of the "too futuristic content" I would love BIS to talk to the winner to participate and include more content to their game as dlc free or something like that (example of star citizen with the modding content who was include in their game).

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well my source was not correct about the jury but that still suck in my opinion its like if BIS would force people to play Altis Life to mil sims players or DayZ to zombie hater. Community are formed by players and to know that vote didn't count I think its bad.

Anyway this contest will make drama for long time thanks for all people who was involved and making great things to Arma 3 if they was not there people like me would never play Arma 3 because of the "too futuristic content" I would love BIS to talk to the winner to participate and include more content to their game as dlc free or something like that (example of star citizen with the modding content who was include in their game).

I'm sorry but how all this is connected to the MANW contest ? I don't see any DayZ or Altis Life winner.

[DatSync 16]

I'm just talking about community Prof

I mean for a player who don't like Altis life or DayZ its like being forced playing to them. Its the same things if you vote but your vote mean nothing you are forced to stick with one vote

[froggyluv 2136]

Always thought Total Conversion mods are when you load up the game like FFUR or WGL - that mod takes over from loading screen on. Adding effects, mechanics AI etc to all assets in the game. Haven't played with RHS that much and it is really high quality units, but feels mostly like a huge playable content mod.

Prizes were too big and should have been waaaaay more categories with smaller prizes.

[r3gUL4t0r 10]

I think BIS deserve some answer to the community, In my opinion the winners should be what the community wanted (votes in MANW) Not from an unknown panel of Jury who maybe never played the game like we did.

They should explain how a mission with 2.5x the votes of the community can loose the contest and not even being on the top 3, The jurist seems to have been a loot of casual players and I don't know what too think more.

I'll be honest I have 1000 hours+ on Arma 3 and the only things who have helped me reached this time was about 800 or 900 hours on "Whole lotta Altis" a single player modification that worth the time to be played.

I think I'm not only one to think that its actually unfair how they react to modder who have done such an amount of work and just by saying you are out its totally rude for all modders who had vote in the community hands and just by a vote of a Jurist they are out.

If my source is correct that PC gamers who had jurist partner in your contest, how can you make a third party website jurist and not the community ?

I'm sorry to disrespect the actually winner of sp category but there are some lack of content I can't approve compared to some other mission with mods supports and map mods supports. Its all my opinion and how I'm frustrated to this contest its maybe childish but you just made people very unhappy on this contest.

sorry for my bad english and some insult I may have done to people,

Couldn't have been said any better.

With all due respect to the other competitors, WLA got robbed plain and simple. The only reason I play Arma 3 is because of WLA itself, nothing more. And yes I have played all the other competitors but I always come back to play WLA.

[Ironman13 13]

I understand what the rules said about the division of categories. I was just stating my opinion that a total modification to a game shouldn't just add fluff (unit skins, weapons, vehicles) in the case of RHS. A total modification should work to improve or create new game mechanics (MY OPINION). Being able to change a mission on a dedicated server with a tool like MCC was unbelievably awesome in A2 and A3. The tool is still very powerful but maybe has lost a following since Zeus came out.

[BL1P 35]

O cool a copy of ACRE won something good job on the copy.

[chortles 263]

I would love BIS to talk to the winner to participate and include more content to their game as dlc free or something like that (example of star citizen with the modding content who was include in their game).

BI has done that before and in MANW's case reserved the right to do so with any of the contestants that didn't end up winning a monetary prize.

I'm just talking about community Prof

I mean for a player who don't like Altis life or DayZ its like being forced playing to them. Its the same things if you vote but your vote mean nothing you are forced to stick with one vote

I still have no idea what this meant, especially since it's not "BI doesn't like WLA," it's "there were 240 points total (of which BI only had 80) to be allocated among the SP finalists and at least three of them ended up with more than Whole Lotta Altis SP did"... BI literally did not have enough points to shut out WLA SP unless the other jurists liked other missions too (or liked WLA SP but not to the extent that you guys did).

O cool a copy of ACRE won something good job on the copy.

NouberNou has specified that TFAR's submitted build was better than the submitted ACRE build (as opposed to where ACRE is up to now ;) ) and deserved to win.

[654wak654 25]

O cool a copy of ACRE won something good job on the copy.

Because they totally copied ACRE...

[gc8 977]

O cool a copy of ACRE won something good job on the copy.

which one is that?

[R0adki11 3949]

Now keep things civil and free from insults, otherwise your actions may have punishments.

[code34 248]

You probably didn't watch the stream last night. Matt has mentioned that there is still lots of work to be done after announcement including some paper signing from competitors and money transfer arrangements. I guess until this is done, you should not expect any code give aways.

im a bit curious, about what you said, and how tests were done. What does it mean ? Do you mean the mission requires server side content to works ?

Edited March 30, 2015 by code34

[I give up 152]

Alive and RHS should have shared the first place.

While RHS is quite good and is a quality work (mainly AFRF, imo) allowing to skip bionic CSAT forces and still have a full army to play against.

Alive is a true total modification from vanilla concept, Alive brings a different and new perspective (and quite good, imo) to Arma 3 in matters of missions concept and consequently gameplay, still even being a total modification it provides full support for most of all popular mods (RHS included).

Both should have been winners, perhaps in different categories.

[feuerexcz 11]

Congratulations to all winners! I was kinda skeptical at first, especially when the contest was re-opened, but at the end it's only the opinion of BIS that really matters here, and I respect their decision.

I hope to see other contests, fun actions and opportunities for creative people in the future - maybe not necessarily that huge and 'rewarding', but I'll leave that to the people that distribute the money.

This contest was a good idea, and quite fun, at least for me.

[Wiki 1558]

I may be wrong, but RHS is mainly a port of already existing assets, right?

Congrats to them, but as other people, I think they should have been in addon category, not full conversion.

IMO, porting stuff is not the same as making all out of nothing.

For example:

Invasion 44, Unsung Vietnam or Eridanus Insurection are total modification, but All In Arma isn't.

[soul_assassin 1750]

I may be wrong, but RHS is mainly a port of already existing assets, right?

Congrats to them, but as other people, I think they should have been in addon category, not full conversion.

IMO, porting stuff is not the same as making all out of nothing.

For example:

Invasion 44, Unsung Vietnam or Eridanus Insurection are total modification, but All In Arma isn't.

Pretty sad to see a fellow contestant and finalist throwing around such statements without even bothering to get to the depth of the thing they are judging. Download the mods, open up the 20000 files that comprise rhs and have a look at what is in there before just pigeon-holing us.

[Wiki 1558]

Hey, I didnt say you dont deserve your win, because you do (I know the huge work it requires), I just said I felt RHS more than a big addon pack rather than a total conversion.

I admire your work, it's just amazing to see all of these assets in the game. I just said (and as previously stated, I may be wrong) IMO I wouldnt have put your work in "total conversion" category.

As explained, to me a total conversion would rather change the whole game to something else like Unsung or I44 did on ArmA 2.

But maybe it's because I'm still used to ArmA 2 and all those vehicles / gears :)

Anyway, no hard feelings mate, and again' congrats for your work and deserved win.

[mistyronin 1181]

Hey, I didnt say you dont deserve your win, because you do (I know the huge work it requires), I just said I felt RHS more than a big addon pack rather than a total conversion.

I see a lot of people that think that way, and I do understand it. But I think we are missing an important point.

The definition of each category it's something BI decided and delimited in the contest rules:

Total Modification - Modification of the game delivering new context of gameplay and setting represented by an array of addons and playable content. Total modification can focus on any type of gameplay (not all possible gamemodes need to be delivered), genre or setting.

Addon - Arma 3 addon providing the game with weapon, weapon attachment, vehicle, unit part, unit or any combination of the items mentioned in any extent. The addon must not require any third-party addons and must be fully playable in unmodified standard version of Arma 3, and its functionality must not depend on any other addon or modification.

According to the MANW rules RHS is a Total Modification. It's an array of addons and playable content ( missions ) that deliver a new context of gameplay, an hypotetic Russia vs US conflict ( versus the A3 vanilla arcade setting of NATO spec ops vs aliens ).

In addition there are a full amount of features, like the new damage system, the new FCS, decal system for vehicles, and a long etc. That allow a more accurate and "simulation" game than the arcade one ( for instance pure hitpoints vs binary penetration, and damage that depend on the location of the lods ).

RHS does it to the point that you can't use it with the vanilla units or other mods, because of the difference in the damage/impact system and others.

As you can see the addon definition is in singular, meaning a unit, vehicle, weapon, weapon accessory or combination of those. Even if you judge only the RHS simple content without features, you have a big amount of different units, from different sub-factions, factions, and sides.

Some people understand Total Modification, as another thing, I perfectly understand, but the definition that matters for the contest is the one in the rules. For instance I think that offside should be defined in a different way than in the FIFA Laws of the Game, but matters really few, as are the ones that rule soccer/football.

I may be wrong, but RHS is mainly a port of already existing assets, right?

Wrong, there's a lot of new work made from scratch or highly updated work. Even the few ones that are "straight" model ports have a lot of new configs.

Edited March 31, 2015 by MistyRonin

[vasmkd 12]

Well said MistyRonin and Soul.

A lot of people do not bother to look under the hood of their car.

[DAP 619]

By that logic ANY addon can be called as "Total Modification" :D Anyway.. stop complaining and discussing. Competition is over :D

[code34 248]

well guys, it s boring to hear talking about rules, when rules were broken several times.

I quote some part of them, i m pretty sure there is others (not only for Total modification)

The Contest is announced on 5th December 2013.

The specific dates for registration and then subsequently Submission of Entries will be announced at a later date on the Contest website.

Submission of Entries will be closed on 28th October 2014 at 12am (GMT+1).

The Winners of the Competition will be announced on 5th March 2015.

Bis email 27 november

After analyzing the submitted entries in the Make Arma Not War contest, we noticed that many contestants had not correctly submitted their data (around 50 entries) - even though some of these entries were marked to be in beta or even gold state.

Although we have tried to communicate the correct submission method as clearly as possible, we recognize that some of our messages might not have gotten through - or that some of the contestants might have simply misunderstood. Therefore, since this involves such a significant number of entries, among which several that have attracted a high number of supporters, we have decided to temporarily re-open the submissions for existing entries in the Multiplayer/Addon/Total Modification categories (does not apply to the Singleplayer category). This will give every contestant in these categories the chance to correctly submit their data, or if you have already submitted your data correctly, to submit updated data.

All in all, we have carefully considered the pros and cons of this decision, and we fully understand this might upset some of the Make Arma Not War contestants. However, as ultimately the point of this contest is to highlight quality community content, we feel this is the best way forward. Instructions regarding the re-opening of submissions can be found below.

Total Modification - Modification of the game delivering new context of gameplay and setting represented by an array of addons and playable content. Total modification can focus on any type of gameplay (not all possible gamemodes need to be delivered), genre or setting.

The gameplay context of Arma is a military simulator game. Gamemode are solo mode, campaign mode, multiplayer mode etc All modifications in the spirit of the original game gameplay, should be disqualified. We all understand why, if you do a modification in the main spirit of the game, it s "only" an enhancement that figure to be in addons category.

Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game,[1][2] and in particular with video games.[3][4] Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules,[2][5] connection between player and the game,[6] challenges[7] and overcoming them,[8] plot[9] and player's connection with it.[6] Video game gameplay is distinct from graphics[9][10] and audio elements.[9]

There are three components to gameplay: “Manipulation rules,†defining what the player can do in the game, “Goal Rules,†defining the goal of the game, and “Metarules,†defining how a game can be tuned or modified.[12] In video games gameplay can be divided into several types. For example, cooperative gameplay involves two or more players playing on a team, while in deathmatch gameplay players attempt to kill each other[citation needed]. Another example is "twitch" gameplay which is based around testing a player's reaction times and precision, maybe in rhythm games or first-person shooters. Various gameplay types are listed below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameplay

I don't know how all Total modifications entries are compliants with that rules but BIS should check this at selection point.

Edited March 31, 2015 by code34

[soul_assassin 1750]

The gameplay context of Arma is a military simulator game. All modifications in the spirit of the original game gameplay, should be disqualified. We all understand why, if you do a modification in the main spirit of the game, it s "only" an enhancement that figure to be in addons category.

you widen the context to be everything which is inaccurate. You can also say "The gameplay context of Arma is a game. All modifications should be disqualified". Where as its much more narrow than that, something along the lines of "The context of Arma is a military game set in the future fictional conflict between futuristic NATO and futuristic Iran on a Greek island" and anything that changes that should be fine being considered a Total Modification.

[marcatore 20]

Congratulations for all the winners.

From the start of this contest, I thought that this contest it was (and it's) a good idea to find a way to reward the big effort done by community modders.

It 's the first one, and I hope that BIS continues with this kind of stuff trying to make things better every time.

I think that collaboration from BIS and modders is one of the most important key for arma series success (from the past to the future) and it' s a value to maintain and help growing.

Speaking about the results, I have to admit that not seeing MCC or Alive in any podium is a big negative surprise.

As member of a clan, I have to say every day "Thank you MCC that give us the opportunity to play in a Coop mode every time with a really new mission without any editor master".

I suppose it's the same for the Alive users.

As a military sim-game, I found that Coop mode is a key aspect and mods like MCC are one of the best tools to play in this mode.

Probably this mods are difficult to evaluate in a couple of tests and I prefer to think that this is the main reason about the results.

In any case. Congrats again to all the winners!!!

Good job!