what cheap, immersion features would be good for Arma?

[SAMstudios-3Dartist 45]

More blood. I don´t need so much gore or blown of limbs. (even i think it should be) But I want some blood on the ground. It´s nearly nothing.

[maffa 29]

wounding and reaction to be hit animations. The "jerk" is an immersion breaker alright.

[gibonez 18]

Heck Wouldn't bleeding be a realistic cheap addition ?

Various different bleeding rates depending on caliber + location of the body hit.

Neck and heart shots causing uncontrollable bleeding while limb shots causing minimal bleeding.

[maffa 29]

gah that would imply having a medical system and it wont do no no, thats mod's territory LOL

[gibonez 18]

gah that would imply having a medical system and it wont do no no, thats mod's territory LOL

Well initially they could get away with a simple bandaging system no need for a medical system unless they decide to.

I was more thinking that a bleed system could be used to correct the many complaints towards the inconsistent current damage model.

aka people taking shots to the chest a 800m with a .308 and acting like nothing happened.

With bleeding they could have such a situation cause insane bleeding giving the player only seconds to bandage if not pass out and die.

[maffa 29]

i know. it makes full sense. im so totally with you. but despite all, it seems everyone is on the same page when BIS doesnt go into mod covered fields. No radios, no voice, no wind,no medical, no Ai overall intelligence, no realistic and to-date weapon and vehicles, etc. BI only does.... well what's left.

Or so i understood.

[bad benson 1733]

i know. it makes full sense. im so totally with you. but despite all, it seems everyone is on the same page when BIS doesnt go into mod covered fields. No radios, no voice, no wind,no medical, no Ai overall intelligence, no realistic and to-date weapon and vehicles, etc. BI only does.... well what's left.

Or so i understood.

"no Ai overall intelligence" lol. i sense a hint of trolling :D

your theory is a bit off though. bipods and resting, sound improvement with environmental factor. one could make the point that the whole marksman DLC is a bunch of engine side, proper implementations of mods. but who cares about these kind of theories really? no points or ideas should be invalidated by personal theories liek that. it's kind of obvious that BIS are reading along (*cough..bipod/sresting..cough*). so let's just keep the ideas flowing.

i too would love to see the bleeding fleshed out more. not much. all that is needed is change the FAKs so they don't heal to 75% but instead not at all or a very small additional amount (current health + 10% for example) and that they are rather used to stop bleeding. and for that the bleeding needs to be made less half assed kind of "wtf were you even trying to do BIS?".

bleeding should keep on going to at least the state where you can't aim properly. dying from bleeding is not needed imho to avoid frustration due to bad mission design etc. then the medic could have a proper role as the only way to actually heal at all or as mentioned above 10% with his medkit. the current system is very strange and might aswell be replaced by regenerating health the way it impacts gameplay.

and last but not least we need a command like "_unit enableBleeding false". so people can still make lone wolf run and gun game modes without crazy health restore scripts to counter bleeding.

i'm pretty sure that these things are quite easy to achieve and they would create a lot of new game play moments and considerations. i hope that, like many other unfinished parts of the game, BIS will come back to this and make it more indepth. one doesn't need clunky or overly complex medical systems to make something interesting and more convincing.

[inlesco 233]

• Blood on surfaces, materials, bleeding wounds, bloodtrails. More blood, even bloody hands after holding your shot teammate for taking him to cover.
  
• Weapons as objects with all their physical properties. They can lock, jam, get damaged by a passing shot. Imagine a ricochet from your weapon that butters your face.
  
• Realistic wounds. This basically leads to more blood and a better representation of broken bones, open wounds, etc.
  
• More ambient combat voices, character phrases depending on context and the army.
  
• Ability to climb over walls, work together to get over a high fence.
  
• No more futuristic "drone patrol" menus. They're so annoying and unimmersive. Instead, gives us some dramatic music and visuals to immerse and shock people, keep their attention (this is targeted at SP).
  

[chortles 263]

I think when doing a company nothing is really "cheap." Whereas with a mod or whatever you can do whatever the hell you want (I could make my modded uniforms turn purple and pink and I wouldn't need to get approval from anyone) in a big company you need to go up the chain of command, do meetings, think about how it'll go in, and then task people or whatever to do it.

Looks to me like most of the wishlist requests here (what, you thought that this didn't devolve into that?) don't pass this test, especially when 'merely' an animation for one's hand unfolding the bipod is deemed to be 'out of scope'...

Well initially they could get away with a simple bandaging system no need for a medical system unless they decide to.

Hmm, while End Game's scripted revive system (obviously) isn't a bandaging system, Zipper5's given an official look at the thinking behind its implementation and its functionality (i.e. as a respawn template whose parameters that can be set via description.ext) as well as how to disable it for a particular unit).

• Weapons as objects with all their physical properties. They can lock, jam, get damaged by a passing shot. Imagine a ricochet from your weapon that butters your face.
  

Dwarden implied on a Skype conversation some weeks back that only the DayZ team was allowed to overhaul weapons to the extent of "weapons as objects". Edited March 25, 2015 by Chortles

[maffa 29]

"no Ai overall intelligence" lol. i sense a hint of trolling :D

your theory is a bit off though. bipods and resting, sound improvement with environmental factor. one could make the point that the whole marksman DLC is a bunch of engine side, proper implementations of mods. but who cares about these kind of theories really? no points or ideas should be invalidated by personal theories liek that. it's kind of obvious that BIS are reading along (*cough..bipod/sresting..cough*). so let's just keep the ideas flowing.

i too would love to see the bleeding fleshed out more. not much. all that is needed is change the FAKs so they don't heal to 75% but instead not at all or a very small additional amount (current health + 10% for example) and that they are rather used to stop bleeding. and for that the bleeding needs to be made less half assed kind of "wtf were you even trying to do BIS?".

bleeding should keep on going to at least the state where you can't aim properly. dying from bleeding is not needed imho to avoid frustration due to bad mission design etc. then the medic could have a proper role as the only way to actually heal at all or as mentioned above 10% with his medkit. the current system is very strange and might aswell be replaced by regenerating health the way it impacts gameplay.

and last but not least we need a command like "_unit enableBleeding false". so people can still make lone wolf run and gun game modes without crazy health restore scripts to counter bleeding.

i'm pretty sure that these things are quite easy to achieve and they would create a lot of new game play moments and considerations. i hope that, like many other unfinished parts of the game, BIS will come back to this and make it more indepth. one doesn't need clunky or overly complex medical systems to make something interesting and more convincing.

LOL no with "overall intelligence" i meant an organic system much like DAC, FFIS &co., a way to make AI units interdipendent and supportive to each other even if not under direct danger, and more tactically "smart" when confronted.

I would love having such a system (AI intelligence) implemented on vanilla, but probably is one of those things that players and clan have to test and match to their likes and tastes.

as far as blood and patching are concerned, there's no need to go as far as stpraying blood all over the place. there are plenty of games that can represent a little gore on the ambient, this since the ancient times of Doom and Quake. Bleeding is... a little more sophisticated stuff. It needs to have a medical system underneath, and i would love to have one on vanilla in like 3 modes basic regular and hardcore. If done on a good level this could be one of the hassles that wear clans down, searching for mods to do this and that, and that crete compatibility troubles among the mods within a clan, and among clans. This together with a system of respawn/revive/rally point should be included in the vanilla game, something that works good enough not to be something to worry about when making missions.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Maffa

[vegeta897 13]

These seem to fit the bill pretty well.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?189775-Little-Immersion-Tweaks-Spice-Up-Arma-3-s-Night-Life

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

i know. it makes full sense. i'm so totally with you. but despite all, it seems everyone is on the same page when BIS doesn't go into mod covered fields. No radios, no voice, no wind,no medical, no Ai overall intelligence, no realistic and to-date weapon and vehicles, etc. BI only does.... well what's left.

Or so i understood.

I don't see that making sense. Say, if a majority of the crowd wishes to have a certain feature, everyone agree's on it, but a mod of said feature exists, than BIS won't do it, and do something like say, a better side stepping animation instead, or something. But that's kinda unreasonable, as some mods set a new standing record for how something should be done, feature wise. Weather that be Audio, or physical interaction improvements, there's no reason for these feats not to be added in. For example, BIS's overhauling of the Sound-scape with Marksman DLC, is in a similar process to how Laxemann achieved his 3D moving sound. It works in the same way, but the only difference, is the sound is not 3D. In other words, it's just a tail added to the sound of a gunshot, rather than the sound of the shot moving through the terrain. On the other hand though, some things as a mod would significantly increase performance wise, if it were Engine implemented instead of a mod.

What's left to implement on the other hand... what is left that hasn't been done? Well, i would request something like a clickable interior, to get rid of some of the evilness of THE ALTMIGHTY EVIL ACTION SCROLL MENU! In other words, Take On Helicopters interaction added to EVERYTHING. Some would argue this to complicate things dramatically. But not really. For example. You hop in a hunter, now instead of just magically going forward, you look to the ignition, which is intractable, and turn on the Engine first, then go. Though i could see this meaning that BIS would have to essentially find all the buttons are inanimate, and animate them, and apply the appropriate coding for looking around and interacting with said buttons. But, i believe this would be so worth it, as it would begin to feel more like a Military sandbox with more meaning. Vehicles would feel more natural, and immersion would be boosted, at the same time as cleaning up the Action menu. This would also mean that you feel like your an actual soldier than suddenly your an MRAP. What i mean by that, is simple infantry interactions will make it feel more like an Infantry focused sandbox. You hop in a helicopter, you don't become the helicopter, but you interact with it, to get it started, and off you go.

Edited March 28, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[mamasan8 11]

The possibility for items on players to break if they get shot. eg. if your weapon gets shot it might stop working, same with your helmet mounted NVGs, radio...and maybe some other stuff. Adding this would make people not want to get shot even more.

That (the quote) would really bring in immersion.

What about also having islands have a few configs. Right now the terrain, towns etc are pristine. What if there was a choice of "shot-up" island or "light-weight battle" island. So the place looks less like a tourist attraction and more like a warzone.

What breaks immersion most for me is the low FPS. Because it introduces tons of input lag and it's really hard to try to aim at anything or do anything, with precision. Floaty feeling.

[chortles 263]

Though i could see this meaning that BIS would have to essentially find all the buttons are inanimate, and animate them, and apply the appropriate coding for looking around and interacting with said buttons.

You more or less wrote BI's 'why we won't do it' script for them.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

You more or less wrote BI's 'why we won't do it' script for them.

Exactly, but even then, it shouldn't be too much work, as button's are small and simple polygons, rather than say, making a complete new vehicle, and making all buttons work, which in any case, wouldn't work, as this kind of interaction only needs say, one or two buttons for ground vehicles, Ignition, Headlights, maybe breaks, and the strobe lights for the police offroad/boat. A few more buttons, maybe 3-4 for Helicopters, depending on the helicopter start up. It's nothing BIS couldn't handle, in fact, a few modders took a crack on it awhile ago, one of them actually doing it the exact same way as Take On Helicopters... Which, end up being abandoned, as i believe the cause was it being the exact same icons for interaction that TOH had, which would mean taking it directly from TOH, which in common sense, would be in violation of something.

Edited March 28, 2015 by DarkSideSixOfficial

[Wiki 1558]

Fastrope!!!

[zukov 485]

more historical buildings like Baranov castle and churches in Iron Front, this feature change dramatically the mood of the game

the venetian castle in Kavala, isn't well made

[2nd ranger 282]

Making setMimic work properly, and tying AI's facial expressions to the situation they are in (neutral face for "aware", frowny face in "combat", etc)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Making setMimic work properly, and tying AI's facial expressions to the situation they are in (neutral face for "aware", frowny face in "combat", etc)

Great idea :)

[oldy41 61]

wounding and reaction to be hit animations. The "jerk" is an immersion breaker alright.

This! The reaction to hits is still ridiculous, and for me this is one of the highest ranking immersion breakers.

Imho BI should implement something like TPW's great FALL module. Sadly, TPW_FALL suffers some animation glitches, but I am confident that BI should be able to implement that more smoothly in the engine.

(Oh, how I had hoped that the Marksman update would include improvements in that area, too.)

[katipo66 94]

This is true, the twitch when hit is completely ridiculous and lets the rest of the game down, i shake my head each time i see it, start swearing on 4th hit :D

[chortles 263]

Exactly, but even then, it shouldn't be too much work, as button's are small and simple polygons, rather than say, making a complete new vehicle, and making all buttons work, which in any case, wouldn't work, as this kind of interaction only needs say, one or two buttons for ground vehicles, Ignition, Headlights, maybe breaks, and the strobe lights for the police offroad/boat. A few more buttons, maybe 3-4 for Helicopters, depending on the helicopter start up. It's nothing BIS couldn't handle, in fact, a few modders took a crack on it awhile ago, one of them actually doing it the exact same way as Take On Helicopters... Which, end up being abandoned, as i believe the cause was it being the exact same icons for interaction that TOH had, which would mean taking it directly from TOH, which in common sense, would be in violation of something.

Too bad that even that violates the principle of maximum benefit for the least work -- though I'll readily admit that BI's lack of certain features may come down to dev leadership's perception of how much benefit is gained* and amount-of-work-required differing from community members' view (which frankly tends to lean much more towards the former without consideration for the latter despite this thread's very title).

* Or rather, how much of that work can be subsequently verified as having actually resulted in sales... don't forget what that EA CCO said! ;)

[Guest]

Smaller islands, smaller towns, less towns. Bigger buildings that have interiors, interiors that are decorated to represent buildings in use, not just abandoned buildings.

These might seem like small things, but Imo, ever since the Arma series has come into play, the games continue to make these gigantic islands with huge cities and overly large towns in considerable quantity that usually just end up being ghost cities and towns because quite simply, no one is going to spend three months trying to realistically populate these locations to where they are believably alive, and the same goes with the island sizes, they are basically gigantic wilderness areas with little life that include empty cities and towns.

Ofp did it right, the islands were big, but not too big, the towns were small, limited in numbers, and therefore easily populated and utilized in missions to represent alive little environments.

Most of the houses and miscellaneous buildings that have interiors are just so small, you can't really expect to get much out of Cqb in them when it comes to AI usage by both the enemy and player AI. Lastly, it would take an effort and time, but it would be nice to see building interiors decorated/populated with various items to represent buildings in use.

(If more Desert style maps are to be made, it would be nice to see some European based maps provided as well again)

Edited March 29, 2015 by Guest

[inlesco 233]

Smaller islands, smaller towns, less towns. Bigger buildings that have interiors, interiors that are decorated to represent buildings in use, not just abandoned buildings.

These might seem like small things, but Imo, ever since the Arma series has come into play, the games continue to make these gigantic islands with huge cities and overly large towns in considerable quantity that usually just end up being ghost cities and towns because quite simply, no one is going to spend three months trying to realistically populate these locations to where they are believably alive, and the same goes with the island sizes, they are basically gigantic wilderness areas with little life that include empty cities and towns.

Ofp did it right, the islands were big, but not too big, the towns were small, limited in numbers, and therefore easily populated and utilized in missions to represent alive little environments.

Most of the houses and miscellaneous buildings that have interiors are just so small, you can't really expect to get much out of Cqb in them when it comes to AI usage by both the enemy and player AI. Lastly, it would take an effort and time, but it would be nice to see building interiors decorated/populated with various items to represent buildings in use.

(If more Desert style maps are to be made, it would be nice to see some European based maps provided as well again)

No worries. 3D Editor will solve the realistic mission design problem. Object placement, as you say, is one of big NOs in mission making because it's hard to get accurate and the current workaround to better workflow (Zeus+MCC) isn't the best there can be.

[2nd ranger 282]

Smaller islands, smaller towns, less towns. Bigger buildings that have interiors, interiors that are decorated to represent buildings in use, not just abandoned buildings.

Yeah I'd rather have a terrain the size of Chernarus with higher detail and smaller settlements than one the size of Altis with two abandoned cities. But on the subject of CQB, that's one reason the buildings can't be full of normal furniture - the AI wouldn't be able to move through them. But frankly, even a couple of pictures on the wall, a toilet and a kitchen sink would make the buildings in Altis look a little better, because it's not just the lack of objects in the buildings that is weird - most of them only have two or three rooms in them. It's like the buildings are prefabs that have just been erected and haven't had plumbing or dividing walls put in yet.

Another reason against pre-furnishing the buildings is that people might want to create their own interior compositions, which is why above I only mentioned objects that wouldn't be in the way of people doing that (or in the way of the AI). But on the other hand, even the Takistan buildings had some furnishings like a table, rugs, and small objects scattered around (in the rural civilian dwellings). I'm still pretty impressed by the quality and complexity of those buildings.