Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[amatt 10]

@ Icebreaker - i would say a very firm NO to A3L using your maps, on the grounds that they have historically, routinely, and obstinately commercialised content they do not own, refused to remove it immediately on request from concerned authors, and acted in a very smug and hostile manner to any criticism. Allowing them to make use of your content is like injecting new life and approval to their team of pirates and ne'er-do-wells. The sooner we see them ostracised FULLY from the community, the better.

While I do agree with your stance on the matter, from the small note that IceBreakr provided, I would be inclined to say that the sender does not represent the A3L team we're discussing here. A member of A3L has already been livestreaming the development of a map, switching to Panthera would be a radical change; besides, asking for permission doesn't seem to be their style ^^

Just my view, without a name, I'm taking a stab in the dark.

[enti 0]

ENTI .

Using models from other games without permission is another story. this does obviously not fall under the "fair use" category.

Copyright/Ip theft is not the same as fair use.

If i where to make a model of car X that is trademarked and i release it for non proffit. i belive this will fall under fair use. correct me if i am wrong here.

But if you want to make proffit from a trademarked car/whatever you need to pay royalties.

As we saw in arma2 bis uses a toyota hilux car, but was named coyota so they didnt have to pay royalties to toyota.

There are so many laws involved here that one needs to be a lawyer to understand them all.

Although there is no excuse for what A3L has done in regards of Copyright/License/Ip infringement & monetization.

Totally agree with you, was just trying to point out that they have done the same with materials from other games, which shows that they do not care, these laws seem to mean nothing to them,

[slim_pikins 12]

Why can't this community unite its effort for some time and create a "legit" replica of A3L

That would be a very interesting battle, a better product with no money involved could that work? Would the users of a3l move over after all the time effort and money they have invested in the game so far? Should there be some real world repercussions for what they did? Will the al3 team just steal the work that would be done by the community?

I have to say if I was aggrieved by these people I would be inclined to start a legal fund so that people form the community can donate and get some lawyers on the job. Individually the mod makers may not have the resources or knowledge on what they can do but working together with one lawyer and the community funding them who knows what could happen? I for one will put my money where my mouth is if anyone can get that organized (don't look at me I'm a lazy fucker ;-)

dR Slim

[Polymath820 11]

Firstly I am not a law student by any stretch of the imagination but, I do know that A3L is likely to have violated the copyright act in regards to fair-use. The reason for this is the copyright act of fair-use clearly states that if they are using copyrighted content for satire, parody or commentary then it is deemed fair-use. But given the situation in which copyrighted material is utilised in order to gain profit and or deprive, the copyright owner of income or profits then it is generally not defined as a fair-use.

""The Effect of the Use Upon the Potential Market"""

So the usage of TM(Trademarked company names) including vehicles, vehicle emblems, vehicle interiors and other arts, including the potential use of stolen models from other games which violates as the digital mellenium act regarding digital protection and is considered and deemed, "reverse engineering" with intent of re-use in other games / programs is deemed violation of digital protection measures and therefore technically prosecutable.

In respect of them lacking the specific permission from respective companies and lack of fair-use by definition as expressed by Standford university.

Bibliographic References:

Fair-use,Standford University,What is Fair use,http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/," 2005–2014,11/25/2014

[StevenW129 10]

It's sad to say but no progress has been made and it is looking very slim that anything will happen. We will keep going however and do everything in our power to try and deal with the stolen IP.

[eggbeast 3673]

1,750 signatures and rising...

[gwiddik 27]

I'm 100% at your side guys.... but as BI is no reacting in any ways (except that mysterious agreement to stop ? / change ? that charging process) i really have doubts that they care for that pedition. :(

[A.Cyprus 16]

Has there been any official BI response rebuking the recent allegations on how they made a shady agreement with A3L behind closed doors, hoping this would all go away?

[BL1P 35]

Has there been any official BI response rebuking the recent allegations on how they made a shady agreement with A3L behind closed doors, hoping this would all go away?

Going by this previous post

SNIP

Right I've tried, I'm at my absolute wit's end, anyone else that posts unsubstantiated claims without ABSOLUTE 100% proof is going to be dolled out infractions and going to the naughty step and be given a time out...

SNIP

If the agreement behind closed doors wasn't true he would have warned them with an infraction.

Or he hasn't read it yet, which I doubt.

[koffeinflummi 96]

If the agreement behind closed doors wasn't true he would have warned them with an infraction.

Or he hasn't read it yet, which I doubt.

Yeah, I'm sure this is all a terrible conspirancy between BIS and A3L...

I'm tired of seeing this fucking thread everytime I open the forums.

Seriously guys, how do you still not get that BIS cannot do anything, no matter how many votes you get on your precious petition. And no, you haven't proven that they still get paid for access. All you have done is do some elementary school math and concluded that they totally got lots of donations and that's evil.

Are they favouring people giving them cash? Of course they are. You know it, I know it, BI knows it, everyone does. Can you prove it? No. Have they used another people's mods? Yes. But if you're not one of the affected creators, you might as well stop talking about this, since they are the only ones able to take legal action.

Everything has been said, all you're doing is stroking your sense of self-righteousness. Stop it already.

[Rich_R 1087]

I guess I respectfully disagree Koffein. Sometimes a noise needs to be made and made continuously until those with the powers to sort something out. While I'll admit, we're getting to a point of 'rinse and repeat' with the latest info, it doesn't make the offenses any less wrong and for someone who relies heavily on the mods in the game, its certainly worrying as a player.

I would think someone of your background and efforts in mod making would appreciate the efforts to not only fix what has happened but right the direction of our community.

I just realized the irony of this situation; there was a HUGE uproar from modders when they realized they would or could be released on Steam with many worried and threatening to stop making anything for Arma 3. I seem to remember thats why the licensing and definitions came about. But it was the mass markets of Steam but more from our own numbers in the community that created the problem.

That is irony.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

I guess I respectfully disagree Koffein. Sometimes a noise needs to be made and made continuously until those with the powers to sort something out. While I'll admit, we're getting to a point of 'rinse and repeat' with the latest info, it doesn't make the offenses any less wrong and for someone who relies heavily on the mods in the game, its certainly worrying as a player.

I would think someone of your background and efforts in mod making would appreciate the efforts to not only fix what has happened but right the direction of our community.

I just realized the irony of this situation; there was a HUGE uproar from modders when they realized they would or could be released on Steam with many worried and threatening to stop making anything for Arma 3. I seem to remember thats why the licensing and definitions came about. But it was the mass markets of Steam but more from our own numbers in the community that created the problem.

That is irony.

Shouting 'BIS DO SOMETHING' is wasted effort and shouldn't be appreciated. You're achieving nothing but making noise without anything to back it up. All this crap is achieving is making the issue get further ignored

[SavageCDN 231]

I'm tired of seeing this fucking thread everytime I open the forums.

You are more than welcome to ignore it and refrain from posting in it. I'm honestly surprised by some of the responses here...

[enex 11]

Shouting 'BIS DO SOMETHING' is wasted effort and shouldn't be appreciated. You're achieving nothing but making noise without anything to back it up. All this crap is achieving is making the issue get further ignored

First I would like to see exageration being dropped off since there is no need for it.No one is using upper cases and yelling for BIS.

I think is better to let out the issue, and discuss it rather then be quite about it because is "wasted effort" or "not appreciated" or doesn't achieve anything.

@kerc "All this crap is achieving is making the issue get further ignored

To ignore issue you must simply be quiet, so how can making noise get issue ignored?It isn't as we saw matt was responding multiple times.

Some people who are sick of this thread and like KoffeinFlummi they should simply avoid this thread or blacklist it if is not appreciated.But telling others what to do,

or to stop posting is kind of childish.

[SavageCDN 231]

^ *slow clap*

[amatt 10]

Yeah, I'm sure this is all a terrible conspirancy between BIS and A3L...

I'm tired of seeing this fucking thread everytime I open the forums.

Seriously guys, how do you still not get that BIS cannot do anything, no matter how many votes you get on your precious petition. And no, you haven't proven that they still get paid for access. All you have done is do some elementary school math and concluded that they totally got lots of donations and that's evil.

Are they favouring people giving them cash? Of course they are. You know it, I know it, BI knows it, everyone does. Can you prove it? No. Have they used another people's mods? Yes. But if you're not one of the affected creators, you might as well stop talking about this, since they are the only ones able to take legal action.

Everything has been said, all you're doing is stroking your sense of self-righteousness. Stop it already.

I'll focus on the ethical side of the matter, which I've always stressed, because I'm unfamiliar with the grounds of a legal dispute. I don't believe that Bohemia is in a position where they can't do anything; whether that have chosen to, or are indeed in the process of acting upon, we don't know.

There's no doubt in my mind (and many others from what I've read) that there is a serious ethical concern here, I won't explain it again because I'm sure you're already aware. Bohemia should be working with content creators, especially those who have been victim of this event, to ensure that they're doing everything necessary to prevent this kind of incident taking place again.

If no action can be taken regarding this incident, rather than ignoring the matter, work should be done to prohibit this taking place again in the future.

[StevenW129 10]

Yeah, I'm sure this is all a terrible conspirancy between BIS and A3L...

I'm tired of seeing this fucking thread everytime I open the forums.

Seriously guys, how do you still not get that BIS cannot do anything, no matter how many votes you get on your precious petition. And no, you haven't proven that they still get paid for access. All you have done is do some elementary school math and concluded that they totally got lots of donations and that's evil.

Are they favouring people giving them cash? Of course they are. You know it, I know it, BI knows it, everyone does. Can you prove it? No. Have they used another people's mods? Yes. But if you're not one of the affected creators, you might as well stop talking about this, since they are the only ones able to take legal action.

Everything has been said, all you're doing is stroking your sense of self-righteousness. Stop it already.

Nobody is forcing you to even read this thread or comment on this thread. You are not even talking about the points we are most concerned about. The paid access we already know and BIS did do something about it. Yes they still use stolen content and we are dealing with that the best we can by informing each involved party to make sure they are aware of the stolen IP. We are not saying BIS should do anything about it because we know it's not their IP so they don't have an option to anyway. Our main focus as of right now is the commercialization of the stolen IP in which Mike Baxter advertised on their forums in the donator section (now removed after we made it public) in which he said if you go to a certain site which was a Russian Torrent site and choose a model and pay $150, they will port it into the game. That is illegal and it is also fraud as some customers were not even given what they paid for so that is our main focus.

I suggest you refrain from commenting if:

A. You have no reason to and just want to flame the post.

B. Having nothing valuable to say.

C. Do not understand the full story.

If you have a suitable question then I can try and answer it in the best way possible or if I do not have an answer, i'm sure another user will.

[koffeinflummi 96]

I would think someone of your background and efforts in mod making would appreciate the efforts to not only fix what has happened but right the direction of our community.

Stuff like this has been happening since the dawn of time. It's nothing new, it's not special and it will happen again. The "direction of our community" doesn't need to be corrected. No need for a moral crusade. You've raised attention, good on you, but everything that can be done (by you) has been done, and you can calm down now.

Sometimes a noise needs to be made and made continuously until those with the powers to sort something out.

And what would that be? All I ever hear is "BI should do something" and "they shouldn't let this happen", but the only specific suggestions I've heard were "Take them to court!" - which they can't do - and "Ban them from Battleye!" - which is a bad idea for a variety of reasons and I don't know if BI is even allowed to do so.

In fact, the notion that BI should somehow act on behalf of all Arma modders is ridiculous. All creative work is done by mod authors. All the content in (almost all) mods is not owned by BI. All they do is supply the tools. You don't see Autodesk go after some guy on Turbosquid for selling a stolen model that was created with 3DS Max or Adobe go after someone who illegally used a picture created with Photoshop...

There's no doubt in my mind (and many others from what I've read) that there is a serious ethical concern here, I won't explain it again because I'm sure you're already aware. Bohemia should be working with content creators, especially those who have been victim of this event, to ensure that they're doing everything necessary to prevent this kind of incident taking place again.

If no action can be taken regarding this incident, rather than ignoring the matter, work should be done to prohibit this taking place again in the future.

See above.

We are not saying BIS should do anything about it because we know it's not their IP so they don't have an option to anyway.

Judging by the posts I quoted earlier, that's simply not true.

Our main focus as of right now is the commercialization of the stolen IP in which Mike Baxter advertised on their forums in the donator section (now removed after we made it public) in which he said if you go to a certain site which was a Russian Torrent site and choose a model and pay $150, they will port it into the game. That is illegal and it is also fraud as some customers were not even given what they paid for so that is our main focus.

Actually it doesn't have to be illegal. The A3 Modding License states that you are allowed to use the Tools provided for commercial use as long as you have BI's permission. Now, I'm fairly sure they don't have that, but you'd have to check first.

[StevenW129 10]

Actually it doesn't have to be illegal. The A3 Modding License states that you are allowed to use the Tools provided for commercial use as long as you have BI's permission. Now, I'm fairly sure they don't have that, but you'd have to check first.

Again, missing the point. This is nothing to do with the A3 Modding License. This is to do with the licenses set upon the work by the original creators of the IP. They have a license that states their work can not be used outside of the game it was made for and that it should NOT be used for a commercial purpose. You can't ignore the licenses set upon the IP and just say it comes under the A3 Modding license.

[swiftn7 1]

@StevenW129: Just to put it simple, what Koffein means:

There are 2 options right now

1.) Has your IP been violated in any way by the A3L team? No? Then just be quiet.

2.) If yes, hire a lawyer and try to take them to court.

As it has been explained many times here by BI staff, they cannot do anything about it from the legal perspective in the current state. So perhaps you want to explain us in detail whom you expect to do what?

I totally agree with what has been said about the moral/ethical problem in this, and I also understand the anger. A3L team has screwed a lot of people of this community, but unfortunately you have no chance to get the demanded justice in this matter.

Edited November 27, 2014 by SwiftN7
typo

[haleks 8212]

1.) Has your IP been violated in any way by the A3L team? No? Then just be quiet.

2.) If yes, hire a lawyer and try to take them to court.

Not everyone can afford to hire a lawyer (especially for something that isn't supposed to involve money to begin with).

Wich is why I have a lot of respect for the people here who are trying to make things move.

[BL1P 35]

Judging by the posts I quoted earlier, that's simply not true.

Just to confirm. I don't see a conspiracy, you misunderstood.

I was simply stating that if a post was made which is not factual matt would have replied or that he hasn't seen it yet.

If you think I see a conspiracy you are wrong, maybe its because you see a conspiracy rather than myself?

Also if you find this post tiresome and fucking annoying blacklist and ignore it, rather than trying to Flame war in it.

If on the other hand, you Flamed the post in an attempt to get this post bumped and seen by more people... Bravo my friend and well done you succeeded :)

[swiftn7 1]

Not everyone can afford to hire a lawyer (especially for something that isn't supposed to involve money to begin with).

Wich is why I have a lot of respect for the people here who are trying to make things move.

Sure, not everybody is willing or able to put money in this, but again: Who is supposed to do what? Just raging and yelling "can anybody please do something about this" won't solve anything, especially when you are not even directly involved (in terms of violated IP of yours). "I am so angry, I brought a sign" doesn't help at all in legal issues.

The most important thing should be the discussion on how to prevent a re-occuring of such a mess in the future. The story with A3L is over, as soon as they fulfill their "promises" to substitute the "stolen" content with their own work.

[kremator 1065]

Perhaps BIS need to help authors that HAVE put a licence on their work to pursue violators. If they can stump up $500,000 for a competition they can help with a few thousand euro to hire a lawyer to police these licences.

Otherwise the EULA is totally useless on the software, and licences that authors put on are also totally useless.

120 pages of comment! The community if raging, and so should BIS (to protect that community they so highly value!)

[haleks 8212]

"I am so angry, I brought a sign" doesn't help at all in legal issues.

I agree, and yet I'm convinced that the community couldn't afford to remain silent on this

(before this shitstorm, I wasn't aware that a bunch of kids could make that much money on stolen mods, nor did I know that people could be dumb enough to actually defend said kids).

120 pages sure helped to bring light on this shady business, including among youtubers.

Otherwise the EULA is totally useless on the software, and licences that authors put on are also totally useless.

I think the EULA is meant to protect BIS and its products rather than the modding community - as it has been said : what good is it if you can't enforce it?

Edited November 28, 2014 by Pepe Hal