Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[trevormcneill 1]

So ignoring the legal aspects of this situation the fact that they are showing blatant disrespect by using others mods ie Robert Hammers packs after being asked to remove it. Then, they justify it by saying oh they cant do that because of the licence included in said mods is what I am most unhappy about.

[nuxil 2]

I havent read Robert Hammers lisence.

But if hes work has not been voilated by copyright/lisence infringement, he can not just ask them to remove his content.

Unless he stated in his lisence that the licensor is allowed to terminate the license at any time for any reason.

You cant just tell someone to remove your stuff because you dont like the way they run things.

[trevormcneill 1]

I havent read Robert Hammers lisence.

But if hes work has not been voilated by copyright/lisence infringement, he can not just ask them to remove his content.

Unless he stated in his lisence that the licensor is allowed to terminate the license at any time for any reason.

You cant just tell someone to remove your stuff because you dont like the way they run things.

Thats why I said Legality issues aside the fact that they are still using others mods after being asked not to is the issue I have with them. Its about respect and ethics.

[eggbeast 3673]

I think RobertHammer has a clear no-commercial and no redistribution license, which is why i contacted him in the first place.

A3L has broken both of those and that automatically terminates the license which means they cannot use it or host it.

[mobile_medic 43]

You can tell me all you bloody want, you all need to stop just saying it and prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Get together, collect evidence, give me an ABSOLUTE rock solid case showing, that you can pay to be guaranteed a spot on their server, give me numbers, statistics, facts, everything, something I can run with.

Now you guys give me that in a coherent, complete, fact based (with evidence that cannot be questioned), document to matt.lightfoot@bistudio.com and I'll do everything I possibly can, if they are breaking the EULA.

I can't act on other people's copyrights nor can I advise them on what to do, they need to pursue it themselves.

That is a bit confusing... Are you asking your paying customers to do the work that your lawyers are paid to do, and could do much more effectively than some rogue internet investigators?

I am curious if you received "absolute proof" that they have ceased, or if you just took their word, and a vanished link for it?

[das attorney 858]

That is a bit confusing... Are you asking your paying customers to do the work that your lawyers are paid to do, and could do much more effectively than some rogue internet investigators?

I am curious if you received "absolute proof" that they have ceased, or if you just took their word, and a vanished link for it?

That is a good point.

If BIS cannot act on behalf of community, then why is community getting evidence for BIS? If they need incontrovertible proof of abuse of BIS EULA, then they should be trying to get it themselves. Otherwise there is always a question mark hanging over evidence obtained from third parties.

[krisschils1234 10]

That is a good point.

If BIS cannot act on behalf of community, then why is community getting evidence for BIS? If they need incontrovertible proof of abuse of BIS EULA, then they should be trying to get it themselves. Otherwise there is always a question mark hanging over evidence obtained from third parties.

This make sense, why not have a BIS support or dev to attempt to buy item for the server, like getting in and joining the teamspeak and asking if there is anyway you could pay a little to start a little faster, whether it is guns or money...I had heard comments of people saying that the admins were attempting to sell people "a car and 2 tmps for $40"

I'm new to this forum, I just wanted to +1 this idea and give my own opinion.

[Tyl3r99 41]

It's most likely because they have paid for access to the mod and are too afraid to lose it.

this didnt deserve a warning imo

____________________________________

anyway, i still think BI should make an official statement before this gets out of hand... hey the petition has got a lot of signatures i think that is worth something

[havatan19 10]

roberthammer never game permission to them, especially for commercial use of his weapons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTgbmH5v_1U

[BL1P 35]

I think Eggbeast has provided enough proof.

Your move BIS.

Weldone Egg and all involved.

[GSP167 1]

I think Eggbeast has provided enough proof.

Your move BIS.

Weldone Egg and all involved.

In before "It's a closed case" comments.

[eggbeast 3673]

wasn't just me guys, was a MASSIVE team effort - big slap on the back all around.

this was a great example of what the arma community can do when it pulls together.

Let's try and keep it that way.

If anyone is talented and a little bored sign up to help kju on the community upgrade project - which is bravely porting all of the A2 units to A3 - what we've all wanted for so long... and it will be released on a derivatives allowed license, but obviously non-commercial.

We just donated all our aircraft to this project today - 3 months solid work from a team of us.

This is why we fight eh...

[ReggaeReggae 10]

*disclaimer* I have played A3L, and am still an active member of the community there. I also donated $30 as a gold donation in order to be white-listed as a civilian. I actually have no real understanding of scripting at all especially in arma 3 so it is very difficult for me to make an accurate observation with regards to what has been taken, script/mod framework wise. I am also currently only 18 and have little/no legal experience so if you after reading that decide my opinion will be invalid then I do apologize and don't waste you're time reading this. I also make no attempt to deny this post will be as biased as can be but I will endeavor to be as honest as I can.

In terms of my A3L playtime if this interests anyone I joined late sept of this year. I was a civilian for a while running around doing not very much but enjoying myself greatly, eventually attempting to become a lawyer in the virtual lakeside world, this was pretty tricky given the framework in the mod currently but I did my best, after struggling for a while I decided to apply to be a member of the EMS which I have been for little over 2 weeks now and again have greatly enjoyed it especially with the new CSE update.

Now I know this isn't an issue with A3L itself and the game-play but how it is run. The issue with regards to donations is an issue of BI's TOS and is an issue between BI and the owners if A3L and this does need do be disputed between them, and as this has developed it seems clear to me A3L now has BI's attention and it is there job to investigate that further if they so desire. I'm sure if someone does have solid proof and yes because of the legality of the issue they would need to contact BI directly and I would advise that instead of posting on this thread. So far from what I have read the evidence you seem to want to take is that of a YouTube comment. Now don't get me wrong it may well be the case but that scenario is very unlikely from everything I have seen. It is very very easy to get hold of a gun and very very hard to get hold of a project lead, I myself have waited for hours firstly to get white listed and at times after that waiting for an admin which sometimes never even happens, I know this is a separate issue ad little to do with this but it does bare weight on the validity of the claim. There is also the issue of the age limit for A3L which is 16. All in all the evidence is rather weak and circumstantially from what I have seen highly unlikely. And without the valid proof I would discount it entirely, as anyone can post almost anything on the Internet as you should all be aware.

Furthermore there is the issue of the use of peoples modded work without their permission, in particular Tonic and Robert Hammer. The main issue people seem to have is they see whoever that PayPal donation goes to massively profiting from others work. Now profit is a net gain. Due to the situation of A3L's accounts not being made public this is a big issue, numbers don't seem to add up, there's no way server costs could be as much as donations. Currently as I mentioned there is no actual figures so no way of telling if this is right or wrong. However even if all the donations are not spent, so long as they are put aside for later use for the mod there is no commercial gain from them at all. If that money is not spent beyond mod expenses including a stockpile for later use then it cannot be counted as profit. Now I'm going to make the assumption here that this must have been discussed with BI and more in depth detail been given to them but based on the current seeming lack of action from them I'm going to assume that no profit is made. It not like there is any advertising on the website or an ad-fly link for the download at all either. So if donations are clean A3L is clean. However I do think that either the financial info should be made public or at least given in full to the mod makers.

As to the issue of using mods without the authors permission, now I am a little bit out of touch with this one I will admit but it appears the most aggrieved is Tonic and Robert Hammer has been aggravated to the point of requesting A3L stop using his content. I do struggle a little bit here to understand why mod makers get so upset. I understand if their work was being taken and claimed it was made by someone else then I would understand the frustration but I don't believe this was the case, A3L was always a collection made by many different developers as far as I was aware and if I had inquired as to who made what I'm sure I would have had the correct answer I just never did, like so many other people I just enjoyed what was there. In the same way you don't really look for the makeup artist assistant in a movie I didn't check out who made this and that. I would also understand the frustration if there was profit from their work that they missed out on or didn't want out of principle but that issue is covered earlier and impossible to determine at the moment. I have to say I find mod makers wanting to reserve the right to stop people using their content that they released to be used very frustrating. Why would you make content if you did not intend for it to be used, it's hardly used for a negative purpose, profit-making ignored. Personal disagreements should hardly make mod users suffer. To use an analogy; there is a sports coach who takes a team to practice, and the teams having real fun practicing and it's all great until the pitch owner turns up and tells them all to leave simply because it's his pitch and he doesn't like the coach maybe because they had an out of sport argument or even because they don't like the way the coach coaches (makes the mod run). The pitch was intended to be used for sport and if it's not used there's an empty pitch and the pitch owner doesn't gain the only thing is the people playing miss out. I also feel like the users who are trying to get A3L taken down are like passersby who saw what happened and go tell the coach that he can't play because they heard the pitch owner say so again probably because they don't like the coach or the way he coaches. Same principle applies no-one really wins just the players lose. And I know analogy wise I'd be a player but I'm trying to be neutral here and I still think it's a fair point.

I don't think this what appears to me which hunt to get A3L taken down is very beneficial to anyone, keeping down the analogy route only the players lose, you passersby win nothing nor really does the pitch owner. I guess a suitable alternative would be to give suggestions to the A3L team about how the could improve their coaching. Maybe you want clearer financial info or more obvious credit given which would be understandable. (Still think it's a bit silly as a passer by but maybe you own a pitch elsewhere or something so a bit of modder on modder empathy comes in). But I do believe trying to shut down A3L and close the pitch is not the right path and one in which there would be no winners and there are other paths available with multiple winners.

Just my two cents, many thanks if you actually managed to read it all.

Dom

[JdB 151]

As to the issue of using mods without the authors permission, now I am a little bit out of touch with this one I will admit but it appears the most aggrieved is Tonic and Robert Hammer has been aggravated to the point of requesting A3L stop using his content. I do struggle a little bit here to understand why mod makers get so upset. I understand if their work was being taken and claimed it was made by someone else then I would understand the frustration but I don't believe this was the case, A3L was always a collection made by many different developers as far as I was aware and if I had inquired as to who made what I'm sure I would have had the correct answer I just never did, like so many other people I just enjoyed what was there. In the same way you don't really look for the makeup artist assistant in a movie I didn't check out who made this and that. I would also understand the frustration if there was profit from their work that they missed out on or didn't want out of principle but that issue is covered earlier and impossible to determine at the moment. I have to say I find mod makers wanting to reserve the right to stop people using their content that they released to be used very frustrating. Why would you make content if you did not intend for it to be used, it's hardly used for a negative purpose, profit-making ignored. Personal disagreements should hardly make mod users suffer.

Regardless of commercial use or not the communication towards addonmakers by the leader of this community (Caiden) consisting of fact-bending and denials (many of which were proven to be false early on in the threads) and being ended by the latter through telling people to go kill themselves in reply to requests for information or to have their work removed from A3L rubs people the wrong way.

[nodunit 397]

First off bravo on your well worded post, you analogies are quite good as well but the issue goes deeper than this.

A better analogy would be someone renting stereos for free under the agreement that you do not use it for commercialized purposes.

Someone walks up to this place and sees "Huh free rental no fees", there is nobody around to make the deal with but they decide "Well its free, I may as well just take it."

Afterwards they host a party and put up a sign for donations to support another party they will be hosting in the coming months.

You could say they donated for the party itself but what helped enable the party?

Yes the stereo is free to rent but they didn't even ask, if the party is crashed then that is on the fault of the person who took the boom box..sorry to hear everyones fun was trashed but that isn't really the fault of the rental service.

Addon creators are very passionate people, they have to be to pursue creating something from scratch all the way up to the final product, when you get into that mindset and you see someone take your work without so much as a nod to you it tends to get under your skin. It may seem trivial but the honor system as we call it is a VERY strong part of the addon community. And truth be told most addon makers are very lenient people, even when they have the most strict of licenses IE do not redistribute or remix, if you send them a PM and ask them to use the content they will generally say "Yes."

It is when you up and assume that its fine to take someones work and incorporate it that pyres begin to burn. I doubt most of us don't want to take A3L down (or didn't), just as we don't want to take C3L and other life mods. If we hated life mods so much then we could have nipped them in the bud a long time ago but no we actually supported them, they are great things and further examplify the flexibility of the engine and what it can do...which is why we do what we do, in a way we are in similar boats. But once again the core of the problem, taking something you did not make and then giving the developer the finger. For example, what Caiden says and this is a direct quote from his own post

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2807633&viewfull=1#post2807633

The big spark was Caiden to which I suggest you look at his various forum posts here.

http://forums.bistudio.com/search.php?searchid=921186

This was the catalyst that sparked a small fire, what caused things to inflate was A3L pulling in more mods.

Even when the license clearly states "Do not redistribute" and further on the author requested the removal..that should have been the end of it, had they removed the content it would have been over, instead we see other cases pop up and so it flared up and has become what we see now.

Now I am not saying that this is the problem now, and I'm not saying that this is what the community is going for "now" but I am certain that this idea that addon makers have no rights over their content regardless of what the license says is the gas that caused the blaze, the rest of it is just firewood.

Now as for profitting off the content...this is a very grey area with a lot of swings and round abouts. Staff claims that donators support the servers which makes sense but in a way yes they are. Donations go to support the server which supports the mod by keeping it up, people also donate because they enjoy the mod, content is what keeps a mod alive and by extension of its mere presence in a way you are profitting from the addon content because they go to the enjoyment blending into your mod and could be a part of what keeps the interest. But again at its very core it all comes back to "Hello please remove my addon" "No."

Edited November 15, 2014 by NodUnit

[MattLightfoot 1]

Even if you give Bohemia evidence they wont do anything about it, it was already said that there's a ton of servers breaking EULA and Bohemia isn't doing anything.

I beg to differ, every server that is seen to be breaking the EULA is pursued.

That is a bit confusing... Are you asking your paying customers to do the work that your lawyers are paid to do, and could do much more effectively than some rogue internet investigators?

I am curious if you received "absolute proof" that they have ceased, or if you just took their word, and a vanished link for it?

Firstly no, I'm asking member's of the forum community to justify their accusations. Now at the time, they said they had stated they had ceased after looking looking there wasn't evidence to suggest that they were. Sadly I have to work under the presumption of innocence, so I was asking for people to show their evidence, to prove my assumption that they had stopped, wrong.

[PuFu 4600]

Furthermore there is the issue of the use of peoples modded work without their permission, in particular Tonic and Robert Hammer. The main issue people seem to have is they see whoever that PayPal donation goes to massively profiting from others work. Now profit is a net gain. Due to the situation of A3L's accounts not being made public this is a big issue, numbers don't seem to add up, there's no way server costs could be as much as donations. Currently as I mentioned there is no actual figures so no way of telling if this is right or wrong. However even if all the donations are not spent, so long as they are put aside for later use for the mod there is no commercial gain from them at all. If that money is not spent beyond mod expenses including a stockpile for later use then it cannot be counted as profit. Now I'm going to make the assumption here that this must have been discussed with BI and more in depth detail been given to them but based on the current seeming lack of action from them I'm going to assume that no profit is made. It not like there is any advertising on the website or an ad-fly link for the download at all either. So if donations are clean A3L is clean. However I do think that either the financial info should be made public or at least given in full to the mod makers.

mod expenses? Donations cannot be used for mod expenses (besides servers and alike), unless and only when every bit of content IP is owned by the A3L. But it isn't.

As to the issue of using mods without the authors permission, now I am a little bit out of touch with this one I will admit but it appears the most aggrieved is Tonic and Robert Hammer has been aggravated to the point of requesting A3L stop using his content. I do struggle a little bit here to understand why mod makers get so upset. I understand if their work was being taken and claimed it was made by someone else then I would understand the frustration but I don't believe this was the case, A3L was always a collection made by many different developers as far as I was aware and if I had inquired as to who made what I'm sure I would have had the correct answer I just never did, like so many other people I just enjoyed what was there.

You are not allowed to unpack / rip and repack the addons. The public released pbos are NOT to be messed with without permission.

In the same way you don't really look for the makeup artist assistant in a movie I didn't check out who made this and that. I would also understand the frustration if there was profit from their work that they missed out on or didn't want out of principle but that issue is covered earlier and impossible to determine at the moment. I have to say I find mod makers wanting to reserve the right to stop people using their content that they released to be used very frustrating. Why would you make content if you did not intend for it to be used, it's hardly used for a negative purpose, profit-making ignored. Personal disagreements should hardly make mod users suffer.

It is not about mod makers wanting to prohibit specific users from using addons, it is about blocking monetizaiton of it.

Besides, since, you brought this up, legally, since one is not prohibiting a purchase of a product, but rather the use, i can add to my CC license agreement something specific such as: prohibition of use for any life community. Or more specific A3L users. Don't agree with EULA, simply don't use it.

Even more, with a bit of headache and some more work, i can have a script that searches through the name list of the content in A3L pbos, and auto-disable my own addon (or in fact break it) if i find any the content in A3L present. It can be done and will surely be done if BI doesn't take a proper stance.

I don't think this what appears to me which hunt to get A3L taken down is very beneficial to anyone, keeping down the analogy route only the players lose, you passersby win nothing nor really does the pitch owner. I guess a suitable alternative would be to give suggestions to the A3L team about how the could improve their coaching. Maybe you want clearer financial info or more obvious credit given which would be understandable. (Still think it's a bit silly as a passer by but maybe you own a pitch elsewhere or something so a bit of modder on modder empathy comes in). But I do believe trying to shut down A3L and close the pitch is not the right path and one in which there would be no winners and there are other paths available with multiple winners.

unfortunately, yes, the users are the ones that would be loosing in the end. But more important, someone has a lot to gain on other people's back. You will also loose quite a lot if most of the creating part of community just stops development all of a sudden. BI should know by now that their game spantime is in direct relation to size of the modding community. Hence they should (this is a third time i am saying) - pull the finger and take a stance.

And no, this is anything but a which hunt, there is enough proof here to see what is really happening. You can put any sort of coat you like on this and the so called donations, but it is still IP infringement here.

[tonic-_- 53]

As to the issue of using mods without the authors permission, now I am a little bit out of touch with this one I will admit but it appears the most aggrieved is Tonic and Robert Hammer has been aggravated to the point of requesting A3L stop using his content. I do struggle a little bit here to understand why mod makers get so upset. I understand if their work was being taken and claimed it was made by someone else then I would understand the frustration but I don't believe this was the case, A3L was always a collection made by many different developers as far as I was aware and if I had inquired as to who made what I'm sure I would have had the correct answer I just never did, like so many other people I just enjoyed what was there. In the same way you don't really look for the makeup artist assistant in a movie I didn't check out who made this and that. I would also understand the frustration if there was profit from their work that they missed out on or didn't want out of principle but that issue is covered earlier and impossible to determine at the moment. I have to say I find mod makers wanting to reserve the right to stop people using their content that they released to be used very frustrating. Why would you make content if you did not intend for it to be used

The problem for me is it's not about wanting my work removed after the fact. I told them before they even "launched" their beta to drop my code because I never approved for it to be used. This has been going on since September. The current situation that this is in has only made my decision and request more clear and heard. I have never wanted my work to be used by them. Most of the time people give me a heads up and ask my permission to use my work before they even do it and most of the time I say yes, however not once did they approach me until after the fact that I learned they were going to use it and I flat out told them no. I've said it a lot of times and I am pretty sure no is a universal term. Now this is not to say that I would of agreed even if they had approach me before I found out as I would of still said no because they would of been delivering core game play that was not what they promised which I am highly against and frown upon. My personality is about quality and what you put out there says a lot about you and your type of character and when you build hype for something to only take the short cut route in what has clearly been displayed as a opportunity to acquire money flat out pisses me off.

I read above and you do have a point that no one knows the true amount that they are generating nor the amount that is actually going out to server costs however I can break down the core server cost for the ARMA servers because they are at the same data-center that I am at.

This is an educated guess as far as hardware specs that they may have for each ARMA server:

CPU: Xeon E3-1270 V3 ($134)

RAM: 8GB DDR3 ($10 if they run 16GB)

HDD1: 60GB SSD ($0.00) or 500GB HDD ($0.00)

OS: Windows Server 2008 R2 ($35.00) - This can be an unknown factor because they can a more expensive variant or their own as the DC allows OS installation via KVM

Uplink: This can either be 100Mbps ($0.00) or 1000Mbps ($30) - Depending on the time of buy the 1Gbps option was free and is perm. for that server

Bandwidth: 10TB Out|Unlimited in ($0.00)

DDoS protection: This can vary depending on the plan but it can either be $50 for 10Gbps protection or $100 for 20Gbps protection.

So out of that we will do a estimation for three servers at the highest possible cost which would be:

$309x3 = $927/mo * 12 = $11,124

So for three servers including all possible logical part requirements they would be paying for the three US servers $11,124/yr but this is not to say that they are paying $309/server a month nor is it to say they did not skim out on a few parts to cut costs such as DDoS protection.

For a webserver there is not much expense in that. I run my website for $46/mo which includes the web server and cloudflare protection and I ran a much MUCH larger website for a bit more and that was a website 40x bigger and more demanding without cloudflare. Website software its self was already paid which is $175 for the software and to keep upgrades it can be anywhere from $35-60 every six months so at best they are in need for a years cost of being maintained $13,530. Take that rough estimate from a highly educated guess that also includes teamspeak and possible licensing and the rumored guess of around $50,000-$55,000 already generated they have generated well over 4 years worth of "donations" to maintain all current services plus extra.

Now lets face it, no game-targeted community specially for a mod lasts more then a year so the question that is instilled in everyone's mind is where is that extra 35k-40k going to end up? Most likely not in cost of maintenance and even expect some of the services or servers dropped mid way through the year just as every other game-targeted community has done. There is no need to keep a "donations" capability up and any sensible person would cut it, not continue to get more.

The information above is based upon my own personal experience in running high-quality game servers and very very large and demanding websites so it is in my best opinion that this is fairly accurate and not based upon actual truth because as you said above no one knows how much money they are generating in "Donations" nor does anyone know where that money is going to. This also leaves out key-factors for the game servers specifically because LSN (Limestone Networks) Gives discounts for the more servers you have and also give out discounts upon request and sales quite regularly.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tonic-_-

[GSP167 1]

Dude, I ran TWO Invade & Annex servers, a vanilla one and a RHS one at once, both with an average of 20 players on a VPS with 4.5gb RAM, & 2 core Xeon 3.70ghz, and the CPU never went above 75%, neither did the RAM on vSphere Client (if you look at the windows monitor on a dedi/vps it'll only give you the CPU usage of the first core, at least that's what I've been told and it seemed to be true when I compared Windows CPU monitor to vSphere)

Also as far as I know, Arma 3 servers don't use more than 2gb of ram unless you're using headless client which can increase your ram a little bit to handle AIs, but that'd be pointless in A3L since there's next to no AIs.

TL;DR; I'm SURE that these servers could easily run on a VPS with decent specs and it wouldn't even cost them that much per month. (Let's say 50$ per month per VPS, that's 150$ a month.)

[icebreakr 3157]

We've discussed in a team and a question popped up. A lot of people have been using my and other addon makers stuff in A2, especially in Dayz mod and Life mods. Didn't mods there ask for donations for special privileges, didn't Crime Mod for A2 have "a better car" for extra $? I wonder. Well, I didn't get a dime from any developers of such projects that used an island (even modified, as I expreselly don't allow). Even been in talks with UK mate living in Dubai about doing something very lucrative with A2 engine but didn't get past first talk on the phone... I know certain modmakers went further with that, but I'm in no position to discuss :)

[Rich_R 1087]

Furthermore there is the issue of the use of peoples modded work without their permission, in particular Tonic and Robert Hammer. The main issue people seem to have is they see whoever that PayPal donation goes to massively profiting from others work. Now profit is a net gain.

There is an obvious mix of definitions here; A net profit is calculated by using the monies received, taking away all applicable costs (theses tend to be generally accepted costs...standardized so to speak) and a business is left with its net profits.

The underlining concern isn't how much money was made but the fact that there should be no charges resulting in the illegal use of goods begin with.

As an example; U2 just released an album free on the iPhone. If someone pirated that music and sold it to andriod users, the defense wouldn't be 'by the time the pirates paid for the servers to distribute the songs they only made a little bit of money'. No, the concern would be they shouldn't have sold the pirated songs to begin with. The work wasn't theirs to sell.

All the opinions and cross chatter in the forums are the equivalent of smoke and mirrors I'm afraid, the facts are actions which shouldn't be tolerated.

[eggbeast 3673]

+1 mustang. Piracy, theft and license infringement are the primary documented offences A3L owners appears to have committed.

Intention to sell pirating services and selling of expedition services to a very large and expanding queue of BIS A3 customers is a breach of the current game EULA, all of the mod makers licenses, attracts tax in the Netherlands, and constitutes fraud if you sell something that wasn't yours to begin with.

Any A3L donor can rightfully claim a charge-back from paypal.

Once the server is taken down I am sure others will help fully explain the process to the crowds of dissatisfied donors.

Building up of 14 months worth of costs as A3L explained in their twitch interview, is absolutely disproportionate income generation in the Arma gaming community. combine this with James Doakes' (A3L administrator) post on 22 October that said "simple fact is people don't donate = no more servers, RIP A3L" - he said this to the community playing at A3L when he KNEW they had $30 grand in the bank and they were getting 30 NEW donations, many at $30 every day.

Summary updated with Tonics detailed account refuting A3L recent claims they "reached out" to him and somehow had a relationship:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2815104&viewfull=1#post2815104

petition has 1,463 sigs now - keep it up guys - this is good evidence of the community feeling.

58,000 views of psy's youtube vid

Edited November 15, 2014 by eggbeast

[mobile_medic 43]

Firstly no, I'm asking member's of the forum community to justify their accusations. Now at the time, they said they had stated they had ceased after looking looking there wasn't evidence to suggest that they were. Sadly I have to work under the presumption of innocence, so I was asking for people to show their evidence, to prove my assumption that they had stopped, wrong.

Fair enough...

[havatan19 10]

one of moddb staff noticed my article i posted and now they completly banned arma 3 life mod from moddb. this means: in the future when arma 3 life mod is making a page on moddb, we dont need to contact the moderators there, they will remove the mod from moddb immediatly.

http://www.moddb.com/members/havatan10/blogs/stay-away-from-arma-3-life-mod/#4919757

[m1lkm8n 411]

one of moddb staff noticed my article i posted and now they completly banned arma 3 life mod from moddb. this means: in the future when arma 3 life mod is making a page on moddb, we dont need to contact the moderators there, they will remove the mod from moddb immediatly.

http://www.moddb.com/members/havatan10/blogs/stay-away-from-arma-3-life-mod/#4919757

http://i.imgur.com/PRyy5bS.jpg

Haha. Awesome. Thank you!! :)