13€ DLC, hefty price for 2 choppers

[galzohar 31]

To be honest, I think that a much better approach for such games is to sell 1 big expansion once every 1.5-2 years. Once that is so awesome that everyone will want to buy and not even think about complaining that they NEED to buy it - At least if they actually like the game.

The small DLC income model that makes you unable to even make missions with the content if you want them to be competitive and/or accessible (and no, it's not competitive to include equipment that behaves differently for those who bought in). Or if you make a mission relying on a certain DLC asset, then your mission is unplayable (or not enjoyable) unless you have at least someone in game with the DLC to take advantage of the mission-critical asset. Basically, the DLC system in hand is very limiting to mission makers and thus will see very limited use in online multiplayer (except maybe for missions where people already buy stuff like KotH/Warfare/Wasteland/Life missions).

The only small DLC you can really sell without breaking multiplayer is single player missions and campaigns. All the tricks BIS is using to get the DLC to not completely break multiplayer is nice and all, but in the end you will still not be able to place those assets in missions if you want a consistent experience for everyone playing it.

The "big expansion" strategy is much better because everyone are forced to buy it (if you don't buy it you'll be stuck playing with players who were too cheap and don't actually like the game anyway), while at the same time everyone feel like they're actually getting something big in return.

The current DLC seems like it gives an extremely small value for your money, and if I'll ever buy it it'll only be because I want to support BIS, as the DLC itself is pretty useless. But I probably won't buy it just because I want to discourage this sort of DLC strategy (and again, don't really have a use for what they're selling), and I can't have both (supporting BIS AND discouraging this sort of DLC strategy) at the same time.

When they do end up releasing a proper expansion, I'll be the first to buy it.

[chortles 263]

@ galzohar: They announced a proper expansion already for sometime next year... I'm guessing that that's too long for BI to wait for new revenue when there would be only so many new A3 sales (that is, of the base game) until then... I guess the same mentality that treats Zeus like a free DLC even though it was just part of a platform update.

[Bouben 3]

To be honest, I think that a much better approach for such games is to sell 1 big expansion once every 1.5-2 years. Once that is so awesome that everyone will want to buy and not even think about complaining that they NEED to buy it - At least if they actually like the game.

The small DLC income model that makes you unable to even make missions with the content if you want them to be competitive and/or accessible (and no, it's not competitive to include equipment that behaves differently for those who bought in). Or if you make a mission relying on a certain DLC asset, then your mission is unplayable (or not enjoyable) unless you have at least someone in game with the DLC to take advantage of the mission-critical asset. Basically, the DLC system in hand is very limiting to mission makers and thus will see very limited use in online multiplayer (except maybe for missions where people already buy stuff like KotH/Warfare/Wasteland/Life missions).

The only small DLC you can really sell without breaking multiplayer is single player missions and campaigns. All the tricks BIS is using to get the DLC to not completely break multiplayer is nice and all, but in the end you will still not be able to place those assets in missions if you want a consistent experience for everyone playing it.

The "big expansion" strategy is much better because everyone are forced to buy it (if you don't buy it you'll be stuck playing with players who were too cheap and don't actually like the game anyway), while at the same time everyone feel like they're actually getting something big in return.

The current DLC seems like it gives an extremely small value for your money, and if I'll ever buy it it'll only be because I want to support BIS, as the DLC itself is pretty useless. But I probably won't buy it just because I want to discourage this sort of DLC strategy (and again, don't really have a use for what they're selling), and I can't have both (supporting BIS AND discouraging this sort of DLC strategy) at the same time.

When they do end up releasing a proper expansion, I'll be the first to buy it.

So, what is wrong with this DLC strategy? I find it to be pretty friendly. I have no issues with it in my game.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I don't mind small additions, for free or for a low/medium price depending. But honestly, I just can't wait for the Expansion.

[ProfTournesol 956]

But honestly, I just can't wait for the Expansion.

So do I.

[Llano 11]

I think it's a little too much yes. Havn't decided if i should buy it yet.

[galzohar 31]

So, what is wrong with this DLC strategy? I find it to be pretty friendly. I have no issues with it in my game.

What is wrong is that they are selling a very small amount of content for 13 euros, and despite all their efforts to avoid it splitting the community, the end result is that if you want a fair match on your server (between owners and non-owners), you will be forced to not use it in the mission, so even if it was really good I still would not have been able to use it.

The fact they have an expansion planned is a good thing. In my opinion they should focus more on that and avoid silly small DLCs that will cause problems for communities that might consider using them. Everyone who keep playing this game will buy the expansion, while many probably will avoid the DLCs.

Edited October 8, 2014 by galzohar

[chortles 263]

As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if the DLCs are intended to help pay for the development of the expansion, because as a digital-only game (read: can't sell replacement retail discs in North America) there will be only get so much revenue from "base game" sales...

Then again, pettka outright claimed that sling-loading wasn't even planned until they decided on the Helicopters DLC, so who knows how they would have ended up prioritizing development if they'd tried to go a whole year without new revenue streams...

[Bouben 3]

What is wrong is that they are selling a very small amount of content for 13 euros, and despite all their efforts to avoid it splitting the community, the end result is that if you want a fair match on your server (between owners and non-owners), you will be forced to not use it in the mission, so even if it was really good I still would not have been able to use it.

The fact they have an expansion planned is a good thing. In my opinion they should focus more on that and avoid silly small DLCs that will cause problems for communities that might consider using them. Everyone who keep playing this game will buy the expansion, while many probably will avoid the DLCs.

I can agree with you about the price. However, how are the two new helicopters splitting the community? Please, explain.

[Gutsnav 13]

I can agree with you about the price. However, how are the two new helicopters splitting the community? Please, explain.

It doesn't really. You can ride in the back if you don't own the DLC.

[Bouben 3]

It doesn't really. You can ride in the back if you don't own the DLC.

That is my point. I don't see how the new DLC strategy damages the multiplayer community. But maybe I am wrong and that is why I am asking galzohar.

[CaptainObvious 95]

It doesn't really. You can ride in the back if you don't own the DLC.

That, and if I'm not mistaken, moveInDriver works even if you don't own the DLC, of course you still have the popups or whatever to buy the DLC, but sure enough you can still fly the helos.

[chortles 263]

That, and if I'm not mistaken, moveInDriver works even if you don't own the DLC, of course you still have the popups or whatever to buy the DLC, but sure enough you can still fly the helos.

And when someone created a config addon to grant an action menu command "get in" that works via moveInDriver, a BI dev's response was essentially "working as intended​".

[CaptainObvious 95]

And when someone created a config addon to grant an action menu command "get in" that works via moveInDriver, a BI dev's response was essentially "working as intended​".

Yep, dem greedy Bohemia-bastards, granting everyone access to everything! :protest:

[Bouben 3]

Yep, dem greedy Bohemia-bastards, granting everyone access to everything! :protest:

Exactly.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yep, dem greedy Bohemia-bastards, granting everyone access to everything! :protest:

It made my (yester)day :)

[iceman77 18]

It's fine. Selling 2 helos is basically an attempt to subsidize cost somewhere, for some reason. So what's the big deal? Do you like the game? You do? Then what's the problem with chipping in a little every now and again?

[nodunit 397]

I'm not sure I could call BI greedy for this one, not after the big batch of RTD AND firing from vehicles they released for free and continue to tweak to this day, along with adding new sound sources, audio samples and various other additions. It's not like Arma 2 and Arrowhead where units missing FLIR textures and showing as bright white glares were simply left out, or the other various things that arrowhead added.

I know its different in talking game vs expansion vs game+features but the fact that they released RTD in the core game and not required an expansion or DLC to use it give me no cause for hesitation to purchase this.

It's not as though the aircraft are just toss in extra's either, they are crafted very well and add all of the functionality the game currently has with the deeper exploration of avionics..personally I'm looking forward to it.

Edited October 11, 2014 by NodUnit

[eymerich 11]

I'm not sure I could call BI greedy for this one, not after the big batch of RTD AND firing from vehicles they released for free and continue to tweak to this day, along with adding new sound sources, audio samples and various other additions. It's not like Arma 2 and Arrowhead where units missing FLIR textures and showing as bright white glares were simply left out, or the other various things that arrowhead added.

I know its different in talking game vs expansion vs game+features but the fact that they released RTD in the core game and not required an expansion or DLC to use it give me no cause for hesitation to purchase this.

It's not as though the aircraft are just toss in extra's either, they are crafted very well and add all of the functionality the game currently has with the deeper exploration of avionics..personally I'm looking forward to it.

In short, if i am not mistaken, you pay to support Bis and not because of the Dlc content.

Being this your point of view (and your money) i found it absolutly correct.

On the other side, I don't think Bis deserve my support anymore because of the lack of content delivered in Arma 3 (Content = units, weapon and so on).

Because of that, I'm not going to support untill they'll provide more content in Arma3 (at the right fee).

In short, at the end, it seems to me all depend from the point of view:

1) I am happy about the game so I support Bis and I purchase the Dlc

2) I am not happy with the game so I don't support Bis and I don't purchase the Dlc. <-- me

[galzohar 31]

You are forgetting that the person flying also has to be the person who bought the DLC. I can't buy the DLC and have someone fly for me. Basically if I want someone to lift me in the helicopter I have to ask him to buy the DLC. A more realistic alternative for me would be to place a different helicopter in the mission, as I can't make anyone buy anything he's not interested in paying for. Making missions that adjust themselves based on players owning / not owning the DLC is also just too much work. For missions where nothing really matters (sandbox-style play around with everything kind of missions) it won't matter, but for carefully designed and balanced missions you just won't be able to rely on the DLC. Especially not if it's a competitive-style PvP mission.

It's not even a "value for money" kind of thing (though 13 euros for 2 helicopters is definitely expensive). It's simply something that I will never actually get to use even if I do buy it. Heck, even without the restrictions I probably still wouldn't use it much, since helicopters are mostly for the coolness-factor in missions, and rarely actually used for their effectiveness (except for when the mission maker intentionally places the starting position many kilometers away from the combat zone for this exact reason, which is an artificial way of incorporating helicopters into the mission). Helicopters are really not that useful as an insertion method in ArmA, and I've yet to see a mission make proper use of logisitics vehicles without it looking extremely artificial and enforced just for the sake of having it in.

[chompster 29]

It's fine. Selling 2 helos is basically an attempt to subsidize cost somewhere, for some reason. So what's the big deal? Do you like the game? You do? Then what's the problem with chipping in a little every now and again?

The fact that i'm not getting my monies worth, that's my problem with it.

They aren't selling 2 helos, they're selling you the right to fly the helos. Just because i like the game doesn't mean i should blindly throw away my money and get jackshit in return for it. Though some might see it a supporting BIS, it isn't. They're a business and they're selling a product, not asking for donations. Even if money isn't a problem for you by saying "yeah sure, $16 to fly 2 helicopters is fine" means that they'll probably never look back at it and continue to charge far too much while giving very little in return.

"giving very little in return? but everyone will be getting all the features for free! how is that greedy??"

it's not. What they're trying to do is great! Not wanting to separate the community? awesome! ..but by doing so and not providing any value for the amount they're asking for the DLC, those that are actually paying are pretty much getting screwed over. Unless you're a pilot within the group you play or the role you usually play, there is no incentive to actually buy this DLC. Because why would you? You're getting everything for free anyway.

If you see it as supporting them and buy it just because of that then your choice. I don't see it that way as i'v yet to see any of the "support" actually go into the game. And no bug fixing doesn't fall under that, as it's something that every game should and does do post release(well, most at least)

[Tacti-Cool 10]

also firing from vehicles will destroy the game. nobody ever requested this feature. qq more.

I know I did

[dav 22]

So the Dlc isn't worth the cost of a Chinese takeaway for some people. When you purchase the dlc it IS to support Bis. Even if they are not a charity, they are the only company in the world who gives the player such an open world to sim in, so whether it makes them rich or poor I don't care as long as they continue outputting more material.

[nodunit 397]

Bohemia releases the dlc for free at a low resolution with full utility then people complain about the low resolution textures and how they'd rather not have them at all..

So they release the dlc at its full peak but you can only drive/operate it if you have the dlc, look but don't touch...people complain..

BI release features outside of the DLC to improve the overall game and people say that said features in the DLC are already in the game so you aren't getting your monies worth...

Maybe they should cut out the middle man and toss the idea of caring about splitting the community and just make it so that if you don't buy the DLC you don't even get to see the helicopter, then you'll be getting your money's worth and the people that payed for it will not feel cheated because they get a whole new set and those that didn't, get squat in return, is that better?

[bullet purveyor 85]

Yep, dem greedy Bohemia-bastards, granting everyone access to everything! :protest:

+1

BIS should stop this communistic give shit away for free bullshit. If you don't pay you don't play. *Read in the voice of Patton*

Then the whiners can sit and mope in this thread, while the rest of us have fun sling loading ammo crates and shooting from vehicles.