Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL/Daesh) Discussion

[ProfTournesol 956]

The actual Kobane situation blatantly shows how ineffective the coalition strategy in Syria is. It MUST send ground troops to defeat IS in Syria, but it won't, despite the fact the roots of IS are in Syria. IS may be defeated somehow in Iraq, thanks to the western supplied Peshmergas and regular / irregular Iraki army and Shia militias. But it will remain in Syria, Assad is unable (and somehow unwilling) to beat them, the Kurds are exhausted, the secular resistance has virtually disappeared and the non IS or Al Qaeda affiliated islamist resistance unable to fight on two fronts.

But who can supply ground troops ? Turkey ?

[mistyronin 1181]

But who can supply ground troops ? Turkey ?

You are missing an important piece of the puzzle, Turkey considers Kurds as one of their worst enemies ( they have been fighting them for decades ), so it's ok if ISIS anihilates them in Kobane. You know Turkey is earing popcorn while two of their enemies fight each other, then they may intervene to finish the work.

[ProfTournesol 956]

You are missing an important piece of the puzzle, Turkey considers Kurds as one of their worst enemies ( they have been fighting them for decades ), so it's ok if ISIS anihilates them in Kobane. You know Turkey is earing popcorn while two of their enemies fight each other, then they may intervene to finish the work.

Yep, i posted some interesting articles about PYD (PKK affiliate in Syria) in the Syrian topic. I agree with you, but that's playing with fire IMO. Once the PYD will be defeated in Kobane, Turkey will be directly threatened by IS.

[oxmox 73]

The actual Kobane situation blatantly shows how ineffective the coalition strategy in Syria is. It MUST send ground troops to defeat IS in Syria, but it won't, despite the fact the roots of IS are in Syria. IS may be defeated somehow in Iraq, thanks to the western supplied Peshmergas and regular / irregular Iraki army and Shia militias. But it will remain in Syria, Assad is unable (and somehow unwilling) to beat them, the Kurds are exhausted, the secular resistance has virtually disappeared and the non IS or Al Qaeda affiliated islamist resistance unable to fight on two fronts.

But who can supply ground troops ? Turkey ?

And why is the coalition strategy ineffective in Syria, because they follow their own interests in the fight against IS and the coalition has aswell different sorts of interests overall i.e. Turkey, USA ?

Airstrikes in Kobane were done only every 2-3 days according to a report from Kurds in this town. In general most airstrikes are happening in Iraq. Kobane is a an important key town, since if the city falls the IS has a base at the turkish boarder.

Since the majority of the airstrikes are happening in Iraq, is there an interest to push the IS into Syria since they seem to have less resistance here or what is the strategy.

[ProfTournesol 956]

And why is the coalition strategy ineffective in Syria, because they follow their own interests in the fight against IS and the coalition has aswell different sorts of interests overall i.e. Turkey, USA ?

Airstrikes in Kobane were done only every 2-3 days according to a report from Kurds in this town. In general most airstrikes are happening in Iraq. Kobane is a an important key town, since if the city falls the IS has a base at the turkish boarder.

Since the majority of the airstrikes are happening in Iraq, is there an interest to push the IS into Syria since they seem to have less resistance here or what is the strategy.

I don't really get your point here. The coalition cannot defeat IS if it isn't wiped out from Syria, whatever may happen in Irak.

[oxmox 73]

I don't really get your point here. The coalition cannot defeat IS if it isn't wiped out from Syria, whatever may happen in Irak.

The point is to question why the airstrike strategy is ineffective in Syria, what is the reason why they are not bombing sufficiantly in Kobane even it is needed. Why it seems they are following own interests instead of battling IS where it is needed and if there is no danger that IS forces getting pushed towards Syria if the majority of their airstrikes and weapon supports are happening in Iraq.

Edited October 8, 2014 by oxmox

[ProfTournesol 956]

The point is to question why the airstrike strategy is ineffective in Syria.

Because there are ground troops in Irak, not in Syria.

[oxmox 73]

Because there are ground troops in Irak, not in Syria.

In Syria there are ground troops aswell, I dont understand this message.

[ProfTournesol 956]

In Syria there are ground troops aswell, I dont understand this message.

Which ones ? The PYD figthers are using very light and outdated weaponry, and aren't very numerous.

[oxmox 73]

Which ones ? The PYD figthers are using very light and outdated weaponry, and aren't very numerous.

Well, the Kurds of course yes. *I dont know the numbers in this region or in Iraq, but it is known that the airstrikes are too rare in Kobane. The Kurds are the largest group of minorities and more than 1.8-2.7 millions are living in Syria, wiki says around 10-15% of the population in Syria (18mill). Kobane is one of the major areas of the Kurds in Syria. So I guess there will be some thousand fighters in this town.

But there is another point, the Turkey has an 800km long boarder with Syria in this region. If they are starting a campaign against the IS, it is questionable if they can protect alone such a long boarder.

In addition if they do nothing, more and more Kurds in the Turkey itself will probably start protesting and the danger of violence raises again. There are a lot of Kurds living in the Turkey, I have read in the news that around 3 million alone living in Istanbul and every 5th person in the Turkey is a Kurd. The turkish Army did hinder kurdish people at their boarder to get into Syria supporting Kobane, some did cross the boarder illegal into Syria says another report.

Anyway, this is not a satisfying situation in battling the IS forces.

*This journalist says around 2000-3000 kurdish fighters are operating in Kobane.

"Smith said about 2,000 or 3,000 Syrian Kurds were fighting with powerful weapons, but have been demanding more."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/syrians-kurds-push-back-isil-from-kobane-hill-201410671849840817.html

"Kobane has been almost entirely emptied of civilians and is being defended by about 3,000 fighters confronting up to 10,000 militants."

"On Tuesday after Turkey appealed for help, enabling Kurdish fighters to reverse the advance of Islamic State militants for the first time since the extremists launched their assault about three weeks ago."

"The U.S. Central Command on Tuesday reported five strikes around Kobane, doubling the number carried out since the Islamic State offensive against the town began."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/airstrikes-target-islamic-state-positions-near-embattled-kobane/2014/10/07/122c9a76-1bba-4c8c-a3df-16e5a0545bb0_story.html

If only 3000 fighting against 10.000 IS militants, this town will highly fall into IS hands....this whole situation is not only not satisfiying its actually a disgrace. Over 160.000 civilians did flee from this town.

Edited October 8, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

( Al Jazeera ) Allies consider 'buffer zone' inside Syria

The US and UK have said they are willing to examine the possibility of creating a "buffer zone" between Syria and Turkey as ISIL continues its assault on the border town of Kobane.

"The buffer zone... is an idea that's out there, it's worth examining, it's worth looking at very, very closely," said the US secretary of state, John Kerry, in a Wednesday statement.

[oxmox 73]

( Al Jazeera ) Allies consider 'buffer zone' inside Syria

(We should have posted all this in the Syria Thread maybe)

The buffer zone between Turkey and Syria seems sometimes only some meters - How do you want to control a buffer zone between Turkey and Syria where the boarder is more than 800km in length, who is going to control this effective. And how does such a buffer zone, which cant be controlled, helps to fight IS forces ?

There is another point:

"A buffer zone would likely bring a harsh response from Syrian President Bashar al-Assad — fearing it could become a haven for rebel factions fighting his government. " "The buffer zone may also be used in training and arming the Syrian rebels who will fight both ISIS on the ground and the mighty Assad regime."

"Turkey’s biggest obstacle at the moment is persuading the West to agree on the no-fly zone over Syria. The U.S. said it is considering Erdogan’s request to establish a no-fly zone."

This image shows how close is the turkish boarder to the town Kobane in Syria.

Turkish Tanks watching the town Kobane.

Edited October 8, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

(We should have posted all this in the Syria Thread maybe)

I thought that would fit better here, as the reason for that buffer zone is the advance of IS.

But yeah, it could perfectly fit there too.

[froggyluv 2136]

tell that to the terrorist whos about to take your head, or has captured you

and has your life in his hands, if you know such people have killed before, what makes you think they wont do it again...

Your missing the point, you could just as easily say that as an Afghani or Iraqi, especially those who have lost family to 'collateral damage' for everytime they see an American. A Palestinian youth could say that about an Israeli if all they ever met were aggressive, violent are otherwise killing them. And no Im not some politically correct schlep who doesn't want ISIS blamed or feel they are 'misunderstood', they are easily identifiable as reactionary, radicalised sociopathic straight up killers.

But we've seen this before. The beheadings and acts of terror. Gave the green light for my country's aggression against *cough* the wrong country *Iraq*. Which in turn creates a perfect petri dish for these kinds of muthafuckers. My country gets involved in so many Arabic conflicts we don't even know who the hell we are fighting for, with against Assad, Freedom fighter/ISIS..........you get the point.

At the end of the day I have to ask how many Arabs has my country killed as well as destroyed livlihoods vs how many they have killed of ours. I dunno but if Arabs were occupying my neighborhood for the last 20 years, bullying, stealing resource and killing my family I'd be a pretty fuckin angry reactionist myself.

[Tonci87 163]

Your missing the point, you could just as easily say that as an Afghani or Iraqi, especially those who have lost family to 'collateral damage' for everytime they see an American. A Palestinian youth could say that about an Israeli if all they ever met were aggressive, violent are otherwise killing them. And no Im not some politically correct schlep who doesn't want ISIS blamed or feel they are 'misunderstood', they are easily identifiable as reactionary, radicalised sociopathic straight up killers.

But we've seen this before. The beheadings and acts of terror. Gave the green light for my country's aggression against *cough* the wrong country *Iraq*. Which in turn creates a perfect petri dish for these kinds of muthafuckers. My country gets involved in so many Arabic conflicts we don't even know who the hell we are fighting for, with against Assad, Freedom fighter/ISIS..........you get the point.

At the end of the day I have to ask how many Arabs has my country killed as well as destroyed livlihoods vs how many they have killed of ours. I dunno but if Arabs were occupying my neighborhood for the last 20 years, bullying, stealing resource and killing my family I'd be a pretty fuckin angry reactionist myself.

Sadly this^

the world (not just the US) has messed with the middle east since the crusades and generally made life for them a hell. If I was from that region I´d be carefull to trust anybody who is not from the middle east.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

@Froggyluv, i think you have misunderstood my direction, i dont care about the other people, im not talking about them, Im talking about ISIS specifically,

the people that are committing the crimes against humanity, against those people their where they are occupied, yes i feel bad about the Arab people being constantly

invaded and really not trusting foreigners I'd feel the same if it were my country, but the point is ISIS.

As Im trying to get across its obvious that you cannot barter, bargain, or have a peaceful solution with them, their version of peace is to go their way,

basically their way or no way (death).

So again as its obvious that since your not going to go their way, and those like minded people from other countries are joining them, it seems to me

that since they will not accept anything but death because your not going to join them, they are basically doing their own thing with every means to no end,

such people dont care if you kill them, on the flip side they do, but they are so deeply set in their ideals and belief that they will and have done anything

to go forward with their objectives, again the only option if you are to be a resistance to them is to kill them.

In one aspect i dont condone killing for any reason unless of course one's life is at stake, a him or you situation as in combat, but when it comes

to a civilian situation where theses guys come with an agenda and your in their path, and you defy them what do you really think your options are at this point,

would they accept your noninterest or your plea for mercy, or allow you to move on with your life even though they coin you as an infidel, being a foreigner if your not from that country from what I understand not 100% sure but in the case of the Sharia law they have established in areas they occupy, i think foreigners are executed, idk what they do but these guys have an organized aspect to what they do and a chaotic careless behavior, like seen in some videos where they were driving down highways just shooting at random cars, and then stopping, coming back and finishing off any survivors.

Behavior like that gives one the right to protect another's life of such careless, and savage action.

What is your guys take on what i explained, and specifically ISIS, not other Arabs, or peoples that are "terrorists" that could be coined as terrorists,

were talking about ISIS here and what they are doing and have done.

[Xalteva 10]

Have you guys checked what is Israel's position concerning ISIS ? The Israeli governement is strangely silent about what's happening around him, knowing how scared they were of the Iranian nuclear program and previously the Saddam's threat :)

ISIS has only killed loads of arabs and muslims so far,there is maybe a link to be made here.

[mistyronin 1181]

The Israeli governement is strangely silent about what's happening around him, knowing how scared they were of the Iranian nuclear program and previously the Saddam's threat :)

The Prime Minister of Israel is so silent that condemned ISIS in the UN publicly also in this interview he says that is a big threat to Israel and compares it to Iran.

( CBS ) Benjamin Netanyahu: ISIS "absolutely" a threat to Israel

( Time ) Israeli Prime Minister: ISIS and Nuclear Iran Are ‘Twin Challenges’

Natanyahu reaffirmed previous remarks to the United Nations that “Hamas is ISIS and ISIS is Hamas†and said that he would never negotiate with Hamas as long as it “remains committed to [israel's] destruction.â€

In addition to combatting ISIS, Netanyahu said Israel and other moderate Arab states see Iran’s nuclear program as a “twin†challenge that goes hand-in-hand with stopping the spread of radical Islam.

[Xalteva 10]

Everyone talked about ISIS during last UN meeting even countries completely unrelated to the middle east :D ,but i was expecting Israel to make more noise ...

[vilas 477]

Sadly this^

the world (not just the US) has messed with the middle east since the crusades and generally made life for them a hell. If I was from that region I´d be carefull to trust anybody who is not from the middle east.

not exactly ,

look at history of Ottoman Empire , how 500-400 years ago they wanted to invade Europe and create Caliphate (Jihad against Europe)

read more about how Polish kingdom in XVII century defended Christianity in Europe and defended Europe to not became a Caliphate

it is not "poor victims always invaded" it is "infidels must die", it is simply armed Jihad against non-believers, not "response",

if it was "just response" you would not have "sharia police" and "sharia zones" by those who were good treated in tollerant Europe (you give them a shelter and helping hand, they kick you in reward), those "people" simply want to kill everyone who deosn't follow Quoran, nothing more,

it is what religion makes from people brains,

it is war of civilisations, war of modern world with middleages,

in Europe they have some support cause our civilisation has some serious morality problems (all inside EU penalty issues) and some people want harsh rules, so they find believers here too,

but this is not just few thousands of religious freaks, it is global war of civilisations, secular vs religious

meanwhile in Hamburg:

http://rt.com/news/194060-germany-kurds-muslims-brawls/

Islamists make riots on German streets

Edited October 10, 2014 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

not exactly ,

look at history of Ottoman Empire , how 500-400 years ago they wanted to invade Europe and create Caliphate (Jihad against Europe)

read more about how Polish kingdom in XVII century defended Christianity in Europe and defended Europe to not became a Caliphate

it is not "poor victims always invaded" it is "infidels must die", it is simply armed Jihad against non-believers, not "response",

if it was "just response" you would not have "sharia police" and "sharia zones" by those who were good treated in tollerant Europe (you give them a shelter and helping hand, they kick you in reward), those "people" simply want to kill everyone who deosn't follow Quoran, nothing more,

it is what religion makes from people brains,

it is war of civilisations, war of modern world with middleages,

in Europe they have some support cause our civilisation has some serious morality problems (all inside EU penalty issues) and some people want harsh rules, so they find believers here too,

but this is not just few thousands of religious freaks, it is global war of civilisations, secular vs religious

meanwhile in Hamburg:

http://rt.com/news/194060-germany-kurds-muslims-brawls/

Islamists make riots on German streets

Yeah Great vilas, please don´t forget that Croatia, where I come from, had waaay more trouble with the Ottomans than Poland did (we were kind of in their way). Still the crusades were earlier than that.

About the stuff in Hamburg: There were demonstrations by Kurdish communities to raise awareness about their fight against Isis. In Hamburg some crazy Salafists attacked Kurds because of that. They will be punished by the law.

[b00tsy 28]

Can anybody tell me what IS has shot down here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N-3vFHBXbww

Is it a drone (looks to small for a drone) or a tomahawk or something?

P.S, mute the sound.

[mistyronin 1181]

Can anybody tell me what IS has shot down here?

To me it looks like a Tomahawk. The "wings" are too short to be a UAV.

I hardly doubt they shot it down, it looks more like it had a technical problem as there is no much destruction nor shrapnel holes.

Edited October 11, 2014 by MistyRonin

[b00tsy 28]

That pic looks similar indeed. I was not sure if they shot it down, I can't speak arabic... besides, the extremist was only jibbering about allah in the video... as they always do.

[Tonci87 163]

As Misty already pointed out: No shrapnel holes

They didn´t shot this down, they found it after it had a technical malfunction.