Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL/Daesh) Discussion

[vilas 477]

http://www.defence24.pl/230497,mamy-dowody-na-to-ze-saudowie-wspieraja-panstwo-islamskie-wywiad

Iraqi politician, ex minister of Iraqi gov, candidate for Prime Minister of Iraqi, says there are proofs that some captured from ISIS weapons have numbers/labels ? (register number, manufacturer number, not in sense of quantitity , cause in ENglish this word has 2 meanings) of weapons which USA sold to Turkey, Quatar and Saudi Arabia,

so according to Iraqi politician ISIS is supplied by Saudi Arabia

[.kju 3244]

(Mohammed Bin Isa (L) and Abdel Jaleel al-Arbash ® at the mosque moments before the attack (Twitter))

Cousins killed stopping suicide attack at Saudi mosque hailed as 'heroes'

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/cousins-killed-saudi-mosque-bombing-hailed-heroes-892779263

Two victims of an attack on a Shiite mosque hailed as heroes for potentially saving scores of lives

---

Goodbye forever, my son

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/goodbye-forever-my-son-862229757

The mother of a young man killed in a suicide attack says Saudi Arabia must revise its religious and cultural heritage to stop further bombings

Kowther al-Arbash is a Saudi writer. Her son, Mohammed al-Isa, was killed on 29 May 2015 when he, along with his two cousins, stopped a suicide bomber entering a Shia mosque in the eastern city of Dammam in Saudi Arabia.

[John Kozak 14]

<Removed - does not really add to discussion>

[vilas 477]

another words of another Iraqi politician:

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Udawana-wojna-z-Panstwem-Islamskim,wid,17599930,wiadomosc.html

that war with ISIS and colation of 20 middle east and other states is fake , cause in real ISIS is stronger, better equipped while all help from Middle East countries is rather p.r. (public relations) game,

also Iraqi politician notes that in his opinion USA rather still see Assad as enemy

[oxmox 73]

ISIS is turning US Humvees into Iraq's worst nightmare

More than two-thirds of the Humvees the US supplied to Iraq

to fight terrorists have ended up in the hands of Islamic State militants.

And the Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, and Daesh, has not wasted any time in converting those

vehicles into one of its deadliest and most nightmarish tools: suicide car bombs.

ISIS has used these bomb-laden Humvees in waves of suicide bombings across both Syria and Iraq, targeting strategic locations including Syrian military bases and the Iraqi provincial capital of Ramadi, which fell to the militants at the end of May. The Kurds are increasingly concerned that they will face a wave as well.

These Humvee suicide bombs are large and powerful enough to plow through static Iraqi defensive positions before detonating. Attacks such as these dramatically lower the moral of Iraqi troops and make defensive positions almost impossible to hold without specialized antitank weaponry.

And as ISIS has more than 2,000 of these Humvees in its arsenal, the nightmare of armored suicide bombings is unlikely to end soon.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-turning-us-humvees-iraqs-153100091.html

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC) Inside Mosul: What's life like under Islamic State?

Secretly filmed videos obtained by the BBC's Ghadi Sary show mosques being blown up, abandoned schools, and women being forced to cover up their bodies.

Very interesting article about everyday life under ISIS fascism .

[spooky lynx 73]

These Humvee suicide bombs are large and powerful enough to plow through static Iraqi defensive positions before detonating.

Large indeed. And very vulnerable to RPG fire. ISIS folks will have to decide what to do - either have basic protection level or increase it and have a risk of breaking suspension or engine while moving to the target. Humvee payload is not infinite, so if they will increase protection - not so much explosives will be packed inside.

[vilas 477]

http://pikio.pl/uchodzcy-o-polskim-osrodku-tu-jest-panstwo-islamskie/

islam problem again - Chechen refugees in refugee camp in Poland started forcing sharia law on non-muslim refugees such as Ukrainians and Georgians

[vilas 477]

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ar/business/2014/06/turkey-syria-isis-selling-smuggled-oil.html

what is economy base of ISIS , 2 articles, one says it is Syrian gov, other says it is Turkey

[oxmox 73]

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ar/business/2014/06/turkey-syria-isis-selling-smuggled-oil.html

what is economy base of ISIS , 2 articles, one says it is Syrian gov, other says it is Turkey

Islamic State Makes Money By Selling Gas To Bashar Assad, New BBC2 Documentary Claims

http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-oil-revenue-islamic-state-makes-money-selling-gas-bashar-assad-new-bbc2-1892370

Months ago the Ambassador in Iraq for the Eurpean Union did report that some EU Member States did make business with the IS, buying Oil and financing therfore in a roundabout way their activities. The Oil which got in the hands of the IS was offered for cheaper prices on the world market.

The IS did capture also Oil Fields in Syria...

Edited June 23, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11457140/Battle-hardened-and-vengeful-300-jihadists-are-back-in-Britain.html

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/430199/500-British-jihadists-beg-return-UK-sickened-beheadings-crucifixations-Islamic-State-rule

i wonder when politicall correcntess will end, which allows them get back and create future terror in EU

[negah 26]

Hamas and Israel are building an unofficial alliance against IS. For now it looks like Hamas are afraid to lose control in Gaza and patrol along the border close to israeli positions looking for IS jihadists and israelis do not interfere.

http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/6861308/israel-und-hamas-schmieden-inoffizielle-allianz-.html

Sorry, its only in German, couldnt find an english source.

Edited June 23, 2015 by negah

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

"We immediately removed him from school, as we preferred that he had no education at all than the one IS is promoting.

"I've come to the conclusion that the goal of this organisation is to plant the seeds of violence, hate and sectarianism into children's minds."

Another Nazism. One that could probably only be defeated by another World War, but this time, it'd have to be the World vs. ISIS. This is the only way.

[opteryx 1562]

Has anyone else seen the latest IS video? It's one of the most heinous things I've ever seen.

How can this be good PR for them? Are they intentionally trying to recruit psychopaths?

[vilas 477]

nope , you can send me link on PM to not break forum rules,

but the problem is not in them, problem is in some religions of this planet,

they are simply believers who strictly follow their book , nothing more, they are simply true believers

the problem is not in them, but in existence of such religions,

Quran qotes posted on many websites such as religionofpeace, jihadwatch etc. show that this is only religion that openly calls to killing others ,

Talmud (Judaism) calls that all non-Jews are animals and Jews should cheat in business non-Jews,

Quoran calls to kill non-Muslims,

problem is in our political correctness cause more and more jihadists will be attacking natives demanding obeying Sharia here on our soil, and instead of removing them, west gives up and supports them in the name of tolerance which they do not have to us,

we cannot rescue people being beheaded in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan because those people deny to believe in Allah,

we may give them status of refugee if apostates manage to escape, the same refugee status could be given to LGTB from out there,

but we should not allow here even single person who say about Jihad, Sharia, Islam superiority and etc.

what west does ? opposite,

west allows Jihadists here, instead west wanted to give back Pakistani citizen who escaped from Pakistan because he was sentenced to death for .. apostasy

of course they are recruiting cycos, good that cycos leave our continent, simply we should never allow them back, any Sharia-wannabees should leave Europe

Edited June 24, 2015 by vilas

[sudayev 27]

of course they are recruiting cycos, good that cycos leave our continent, simply we should never allow them back, any Sharia-wannabees should leave Europe

On the other hand those who left will be replaced by fresh jihadi bloods already on boat to disembark in Europe.

[froggyluv 2136]

@Vilas: Religion is just a tool for the few sociopath's in power to control the very people they are ripping off and disenfranchising. Without religion the same exact thing would occur under the guise of Race, Nationalism, resource control, "The People of The Horse vs People of the Desert" etc.... this is human nature. When in an era of majority quality humans, they seem to espouse the best of the religious teaching, when in low quality ebb, the worst. Neither Stalin nor Hitler were particularly religious, but the espoused rhetoric capable of riling the masses into a frenzy, just the same as which you speak.

[sudayev 27]

BTW. There is a version of LIVEUA map covering the region of ISIS. On top bar you can switch view to other regions and countries.

http://isis.liveuamap.com/

[vilas 477]

@Vilas: Religion is just a tool for the few sociopath's in power

but have you read what some religion books say?

one religion book say :

- love your enemy, forgive him,

other religion book say:

- love animal, do not hurt animal,

third religion book say:

- kill everyone who is not believing in our religion, go and kill anytime you see someone who doesn't follow this book

fourth religion say:

- everyone who is not our religion is animal that should serve as slave and you can cheat and lie to him cause he is animal

do you see difference ?

it is not problem of few sociopaths or pschyopats, it is problem that followers of some ideas exist and are dangerous to our civilisation (and our tradition) and supported or tolerated in the name of naivity

i can only ask - how many of those guys who were standing on streets of western cities with bilboards demanding applying sharia are in prison ? how many of those who demanded beheading people for apostasy are in prison or evicted from our continent ? how many of them work or how many of them eat for our taxes ?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/behead-those-who-insult-islam.jpg

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/864170-islamic-protest-in-sydney-e1347747005141.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D4Tnjo1pNAs/hqdefault.jpg

http://counterjihadnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/189.jpg

how many of them are free in EU ? who the hell alows this to happen in our land

how many taxes were spend on their kids, do they work at all ?

or this is only reaction ?

http://chersonandmolschky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/There-is-nothing-in-Islam.jpg

http://conservativepost.com/subway-makes-these-changes-so-to-not-offend-muslims-200-stores-affected/

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/top-publisher-bans-mentions-of-pigs-or-pork-so-as-not-to-offend-muslims-or-jews-9976568.html

Edited June 24, 2015 by vilas

[froggyluv 2136]

Well being that I know quite a few Muslims from various Muslim states I do know that there are many versions of the Quran and much falls down to interpretation of the text. 100% muslims i know frown on all violence and shrug away the "violent text" to that of either contextual times ie 'All tribes were violent at that time so that will filter into the language', or misinterpretation used to the advantage of the power hungry ie.. The Saud family's use of the militant Wahabi as their enforcement. These tribes fought violently, beheading people and burying their females alive before the time of Muhammed so it's not just religion. They have also had long standing peaces with the West until we literally started fucking with their Government in Iran in the 50's placing our guy in power -how would your Country appreciate that shit? Most likely would incur lasting resentment. Disallowing absolutely any UN action against Israel at any point also didn't win us any favors. Not saying we shouldn't support our allies, but was ridiculously one sided at a time the world believed the U.S to be a pretty fair handed helper.

I know what your saying but you still have not responded to the many,many,many equally if not worse atrocities of the non-religious nor have you mentioned the many,many,many good acts of them either. I appreciate your point, but it's utterly wrapped in Atheistic type idealogy, thereby rendering it biased and one sided.

[doveman 7]

but have you read what some religion books say?

one religion book say :

- love your enemy, forgive him,

other religion book say:

- love animal, do not hurt animal,

third religion book say:

- kill everyone who is not believing in our religion, go and kill anytime you see someone who doesn't follow this book

fourth religion say:

- everyone who is not our religion is animal that should serve as slave and you can cheat and lie to him cause he is animal

You're being very selective with your quotes there, there's plenty of odious stuff in the bible which would justify genocide, etc but most Christians in the west tend to ignore those bits. So it's not really the books and teachings that are the problem but how some groups decide to interpret them and which bits they focus on and which bits they ignore.

The west invading and bombing middle eastern countries with impunity hardly endears us in their eyes either, so it's not surprising that those preaching anger and hatred are able to get followers.

[vilas 477]

The west invading and bombing middle eastern countries with impunity hardly endears us in their eyes either, so it's not surprising that those preaching anger and hatred are able to get followers.

the fact that US bombed some countries (apart from justified action against Talibs) doesn't mean that people can be killed for apostasy or another words:

those who make problem in EUrope are not people who protest against US politics, but people who protest over what we can eat, what clothes we should wear, what tree we can paint on December etc.

bombing any country by other country is not connected with fact that medival culture try to destroy other culture and return it to middle ages ,

if someone say "ban beacon , pork, dogs" than it is not because of US jets

when Russian bombers bombed Chechen city, than Poland took some Chechen refugees , we wanted to help them, than they started beating Ukrainian refugees for ... not obeying sharia

for me case is simple - if someone doesn't accept our lifestyle he should not come here, but they coming here because of jihad,

if i was fan of vodka and there would be country where vodka is unacceptable, i would not travel there demanding to put vodka shop on every corner of seting bombs to force selling vodka in every shop (plus demanding to pay me for it), i would simply not go there

Edited June 24, 2015 by vilas

[doveman 7]

It's very naive to think that destabilising and bombing countries is unrelated to people's anger. If your country was attacked and you had to flee for your life I'm sure you'd go to whichever country would take you, irrespective of their views on vodka and you wouldn't stop liking vodka just because you're in a different country. People are welcome to say that pork is bad and should be banned, that's freedom of speech. If they start blowing up pork shops then that's a crime which the police can deal with.

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1329,title,FP-ostrzega-przed-dozbrajaniem-sunnickich-milicji-w-Iraku-To-moze-byc-dolewanie-oliwy-do-ognia,wid,17660308,wiadomosc.html

article, that according to Foreign Policy magazine, US is arming sunni extremists , that US declassified documents captured 5 years ago, which show connections between jihadists and those sunnis which US armed,

It's very naive to think that destabilising and bombing countries is unrelated to people's anger. If your country was attacked and you had to flee for your life I'm sure you'd go to whichever country would take you, irrespective of their views on vodka and you wouldn't stop liking vodka just because you're in a different country

most basic rule of culture says that one must respect rules of house owner if one is guest,

because if one is guest, not owner, he must respect rules of host

house owner can do anything what he wants in his house, he can put any furniture he likes,

guest is just guest, he doesn't have any rights to tell what furniture or color of walls should be in house, because it is not his house, if he doesn't like color of walls, he can leave ,

because if we would allow tell guest about our home, than we loose our property owners rights, native is native, tax payer is tax payer, they have rights to tell how country should look like,

People are welcome to say that pork is bad and should be banned, that's freedom of speech. If they start blowing up pork shops then that's a crime which the police can deal with.

calling to beheading others because of religious belief should be punished as real hate speech , because it is real hate speech when someone calls to behead (murder) others ,

anyone of those thugs with banner "behead those who insult Islam" should be immediately arrested after such demonstration and sentenced under hate speech paragraph plus paragraph for fomentation to murder

those with banners "freedom go to hell" and similar like "ban Christmas" should be sentenced for anti-constitutional attempts against freedom etc. paragraphs, there are for sure such paragraphs in every country,

if you would go to their country with counter-demonstration, they would not treat you as we, so i do not see any reason to treat them differently ,

if they do not like our lifestyle, they should leave,

if they want to unite, integrate, they can be here,

status of refugee should be given ONLY to those who escape from terror such as apostates, converts to Christianity, LGTB

and if USA or Russia or France bombed X, Y, Z country, i do not see any reason to pay for it by Spain, Italy, Czech for example

let than USA, Russia, France (examples) take such refugees and costs,

otherwise we gonna have civil war in Europe in 2030 when today's 5 kids will grow and after Qoranic schools start demanding sharia here,

if we want avoid civil war here in Europe in next decade, we must prevent it now by stopping and removing any jihadists

cause if those people would be escaping from ISIS than those people would not demand Sharia ,

anyone who wants sharia is jihadist,

because if someone would be escaping Islamic law, he would love to live in secular non-Islamic law country, not opposite,

in fact many of them are not escaping any war, violence,

they simply are believing in need to bring jihad to Europe and destroy secularism and Christianity,

telling they escape because of war has 2 basic logical errors:

- if they want to escape islamists, why they want sharia here ,

- if they escape from islamists, why they not take a gun and fight for freedom of their countries,

i do not see them as refugees, i see them as what 10 centuries ago was called Crusades,

they are new form of crusaders, Putin has hybrid war, they have hybrid crusade, cause Islam is at stage that Christianity was in year 1000 , crusades and starting terror of inqusition,

they go here, have as many kids as possible, demand sharia, than grow those kids in extremism, of course all is payed from our taxes,

this is simply new form of Islamic crusade, not escape of poor people who suffer from ISIS , because if you would be escaping from religious country, than you would not be demanding to set religious rules in place you found shelter from religious oppression,

[doveman 7]

most basic rule of culture says that one must respect rules of house owner if one is guest,

because if one is guest, not owner, he must respect rules of host

house owner can do anything what he wants in his house, he can put any furniture he likes,

guest is just guest, he doesn't have any rights to tell what furniture or color of walls should be in house, because it is not his house, if he doesn't like color of walls, he can leave ,

because if we would allow tell guest about our home, than we loose our property owners rights, native is native, tax payer is tax payer, they have rights to tell how country should look like

In that case we should shutdown all the Polish shops that have opened in the UK to serve Polish people's culture and ban Polish food in other shops and force Polish people to eat English food and never speak in Polish in public or have Polish writing on display. We don't of course, because we are tolerant of other cultures in the UK and the different cultures co-existing is what makes it so vibrant and exciting. Anyway, many Muslims are born in the UK and are just as much citizens as I am (and citizenship and one's right to an opinion doesn't depend on how much tax one pays, thankfully).

calling to beheading others because of religious belief should be punished as real hate speech , because it is real hate speech when someone calls to behead (murder) others ,

anyone of those thugs with banner "behead those who insult Islam" should be immediately arrested after such demonstration and sentenced under hate speech paragraph plus paragraph for fomentation to murder

those with banners "freedom go to hell" and similar like "ban Christmas" should be sentenced for anti-constitutional attempts against freedom etc. paragraphs, there are for sure such paragraphs in every country

It's a bit stupid having a banner saying "freedom go to hell" whilst you're exercising your right to freedom of speech to display it but being stupid isn't a crime, nor is calling for Christmas to be banned. There's no constitution in the UK saying that a person can't call for Christmas to be banned (thank goodness!) Of course, calling for people to be beheaded is a crime but I understand that the authorities don't always arrest these people as they find that monitoring them and who they talk to is more effective in preventing serious threats than just locking them up and I can appreciate that it may well be short-sighted in some cases to just lock these people up immediately, if it will leave the authorities with no targets to monitor to help identify more dangerous individuals. Some of those people may well have been locked up by now for other offences anyway.

if you would go to their country with counter-demonstration, they would not treat you as we, so i do not see any reason to treat them differently

So you think that we should behave in the same way towards people as those countries that you are critical of? Yeah sure, let's all treat people as badly as they do in Saudi Arabia, that will show them :rolleyes:

and if USA or Russia or France bombed X, Y, Z country, i do not see any reason to pay for it by Spain, Italy, Czech for example

let than USA, Russia, France (examples) take such refugees and costs,

Well seeing as most of Europe and certainly the UK supports the US in everything they do, or at least doesn't do anything meaningful to oppose it, then it can't really complain if the citizens of those countries that are bombed and invaded hold European countries equally responsible.

otherwise we gonna have civil war in Europe in 2030 when today's 5 kids will grow and after Qoranic schools start demanding sharia here,

if we want avoid civil war here in Europe in next decade, we must prevent it now by stopping and removing any jihadists

The same fear-mongering rubbish that right-wing organisations like the BNP spout to try and cause the very conflict that they're warning of. We're quite capable of preventing our country being turned into an Islamic state without civil war or removing all the Muslims thanks.

cause if those people would be escaping from ISIS than those people would not demand Sharia ,

anyone who wants sharia is jihadist,

because if someone would be escaping Islamic law, he would love to live in secular non-Islamic law country, not opposite,

in fact many of them are not escaping any war, violence,

they simply are believing in need to bring jihad to Europe and destroy secularism and Christianity,

telling they escape because of war has 2 basic logical errors:

- if they want to escape islamists, why they want sharia here ,

- if they escape from islamists, why they not take a gun and fight for freedom of their countries,

I never said they were escaping from Islam, or that they would prefer to live in a secular country than one that upholds a reasonable version of Islamic law (there are many different interpretations, some more peaceful than others, just like Christianity) but if the infrastructure in their country has been destroyed by the west, or their country infested with mines by the west, or fundamentalist dictators installed or supported by the west are running their country, then they may well feel they have no choice but to flee for their own and their families sake. Anyway, some of the protesters may have been born in the UK and haven't fled here from anything and have just as much right to have an opinion on what the UK does as any other citizen. I'm not really sure what you want to defend, secularism or Christianity as they're mutually exclusive but you talk about the need to defend secularism one minute and the next you're talking about Christianity (which really isn't something that most people in the UK care about).

i do not see them as refugees, i see them as what 10 centuries ago was called Crusades,

they are new form of crusaders, Putin has hybrid war, they have hybrid crusade, cause Islam is at stage that Christianity was in year 1000 , crusades and starting terror of inqusition,

they go here, have as many kids as possible, demand sharia, than grow those kids in extremism, of course all is payed from our taxes,

this is simply new form of Islamic crusade, not escape of poor people who suffer from ISIS , because if you would be escaping from religious country, than you would not be demanding to set religious rules in place you found shelter from religious oppression,

It's funny, Islamists accused the US of being on a crusade against the middle-east and most people just dismissed that as the delusional propaganda that it was. Just as your cries of "the islamists are coming here and breeding so they can crusade against us" are. Most Muslims in the UK are decent, hard-working people and it's only a handful that get involved in anything stupid.

Anyway, I doubt anything I say will change your mind so I'll leave you to it.