Bohemia Interactive please comment on whats hindering you to introduce Ponds to Arma3

[pettka 694]

Back on topic though, Pettka, i was curious, is the water in Arma 3 handled by the Nvidia part of the engine?

Nope, we had investigated that tech a while ago (prior to the release of Arma 3) and it was not worth the effort by that time. On the other hand, people nVidia have done quite some progress since that time, to give them proper credits :icon_twisted:

Now that we got your attention, can you say if there are any plans on addressing the inland water issues? For Altis this might not be a big deal, it certainly is for a lot of others though, and it essentially makes a lot of user created maps ported over from Arma 2 obsolete.

The best answer would be the post by Dr. Hladik and his other post - I cannot describe it any better than he does. Just a minor note regarding our attention, we read most of posts on the forum, every developer has his area of interest, but answering is always a tricky part. As You may imagine, having three posts in a day would mean Half-Life 3 confirmed for some people :icon_twisted:

[mistyronin 1181]

having three posts in a day would mean Half-Life 3 confirmed for some people :icon_twisted:

He said it! Half-Life 3 is finally confirmed by BI! Let's call Gamespot :P

[dr. hladik 231]

May I then mention these very frustrating AI issues that are in dire need of fixing?

- Divers are detected underwater by everyone as if they were standing in an open field. Making a water insertion undetected is impossible, since everybody sees your SDV, or even a single diver, even if deeply submerged. They need to be virtually undetectable.

- Mines are way too easily detected by both players and AI. Making a convoy ambush mission with mines is next to impossible. Also, satchel charges are immediately recognized by AI and easily avoided, making any convoy ambush moot.

- More generically, vehicles should not automatically pop up on a chopper's radar just because an enemy is in it. Getting into a civilian car will immediately trigger any AI helicopter to come to you and shoot you. I don't mind things popping up on radar, just don't make it immediately hostile.

- AI Chopper pilots are completely inept at landing. A hot inserting into any area, or a stealthy insertion behind a hill or large structure is pointless since they flare up so high that everybody can and will see and engage them.

- AI drivers should really learn to corner. They have no perception of speed. I had a mission where I tried to have a convoy go around a 90 degree corner on a downhill roat, and the lead vehicle (Marshall APC) never made the corner, not even once. It would always overspeed and fly out of the corner, eventually wrecking the vehicle, with all the following vehicles comically going behind it like ducklings. The recent GTA video with the "worst driver ever" would probably have ended quite differently in Arma - namely, the AI would have driven against something, tried to floor the pedal, and finally said "can't get there". Yeah, as you can see, I am very frustrated about this.

- AI under player control is extremely slow to react to commands. A human team leader's orders should seriously be followed without questioning. If I order my AI to get into a vehicle, they should do that without doing their usual "run-go prone-get up-run" routine.

Seriously, these issues are regularly spoiling missions. Not only that, they are spoiling concepts. More than once I had to scrap a promising mission idea just because it was impossible to implement because of the AI. I appreciate the fact that there has been work done on the AI, but I feel like some very pressing issues have been completely ignored, for whatever reason.

Maybe it is because they're not needed in Altis Life, but I beg to remember that Arma used to be a military shooter, and not only do the above issues very much affect Co-Op in a negative way, they also very much ruin the game for a lot of single player scenarios.

Would it be possible to also provide some repro missions?

[seba1976 98]

Would it be possible to also provide some repro missions?

That's just plain insulting.

[Alwarren 2767]

Would it be possible to also provide some repro missions?

I re-posted the issues here, and Variable has linked some tickets in this post. I'll go over them once I get a chance and see that I can provide simple repro missions for them.

That's just plain insulting.

Huh? Are you serious, or is this sarcasm?

[seba1976 98]

@Alwarren

I was refering to Dr. Hladik asking for a repro missions, for things you mention in your post that are so damn obvious that need no further demostration (like AI driving both land, and helicopters). If he is running the AI department, and he need a demostration of most issues that you mention, then your reply to me, shoud actually be directed to him: "Huh? Are you serious, or is this sarcasm?"

[Chairborne 2594]

The best answer would be the post by Dr. Hladik and his other post - I cannot describe it any better than he does. Just a minor note regarding our attention, we read most of posts on the forum, every developer has his area of interest, but answering is always a tricky part. As You may imagine, having three posts in a day would mean Half-Life 3 confirmed for some people :icon_twisted:

Is fixing the pond/inland water issue part of your future plans?

As in, have you already decided someone from the BI staff is going to look into this anytime soon?

Do you plan on moving over to a different way of handling inland water or just abandon this feature entirely?

[funyun 12]

I re-posted the issues here, and Variable has linked some tickets in this post. I'll go over them once I get a chance and see that I can provide simple repro missions for them.

Huh? Are you serious, or is this sarcasm?

I haven't played with AI in a meaningful way in this game for years. Yet the list you posted, is an unfortunately spot on description of some of the major problems I remember them having, from years ago.

These are overt problems, and have nothing to do with specific missions.

I can see how frustrating it can be, everyone claiming every problem is a must fix. This is a symptom though, of bugs that have persisted through multiple iterations of the game.

[froggyluv 2136]

@Alwarren

I was refering to Dr. Hladik asking for a repro missions, for things you mention in your post that are so damn obvious that need no further demostration (like AI driving both land, and helicopters). If he is running the AI department, and he need a demostration of most issues that you mention, then your reply to me, shoud actually be directed to him: "Huh? Are you serious, or is this sarcasm?"

Have to agree here as well, some things are so blatantly obvious you wonder if they actually play the game at all in any sort of invested way or are merely there to respond to multitude of complaints. One would hope for a crew that actually loves to play the game and still have that "Oh, you know what the AI needs now!" fire and attempt to go after it with creative joy rather than a laborious "What do they want now..." droll.

I'm sure working on the same game's iterations over and over must feel like a chore sometimes and a simple look at a month's worth of daily updates show they are extremely busy at work, would just be a shame if fiery inspiration is gone :(

[maddogx 13]

It would also be a shame if this thread were closed because it is repeatedly being derailed, despite warnings.

Please move the AI discussion into the suggested thread.

[fabio_chavez 103]

The X-Cam team have figured out a way to add ponds...

http://m.imgur.com/iqw0QuL

http://m.imgur.com/bxltGvn

show video with swimming/diving working correctly plz :}

[haleks 8212]

show video with swimming/diving working correctly plz :}

I don't think situations requiring to dive/swim in a pond is a common thing (lakes, on the other hand...).

I mean they are usually shallow (at least in Arma2) - ponds slowing down movements when walking in it would be enough as far as I'm concerned.

[andersson 285]

Pond objects are also used for rivers (see Podagorsk), so swimming will happens. And even shallow ponds must function; what happens when a player or AI go prone in a pond? Then I remember from this thread in a reply from BI that they also had problems with vehicles physX interaction.

[fabio_chavez 103]

offcourse the pond objects are required to be functional... whats the point? oO

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

offcourse the pond objects are required to be functional... whats the point? oO

Ponds should work in terms of swimming. They should have all of the qualifications as the real thing in real life. Lakes and such, even some rivers should use pond water, to keep visual fidelity. The water that is shown in the Xcam pictures, is a perfect example. It's calm water. Something like that, BIS needs to work on getting to work correctly.

[das attorney 858]

Recent twitter post by DayZ dev, which obv isn't this game but same people/company

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/218337-twitter-senchi-for-now-we-have-no-solution-for-proper-rivers-on-a-map-maybe-in-future/

[Munkie 10]

Damn and Blast!

I read this thread from start to finish, with the single hope that by the time i get to the end....good news.

alas....no good news.

I personally had so many plans for inland water, really disappointing to find no resolution.

Yes ok i may have only posted 3/4 times, but im a lurker and info sponge, i just wanted to post to show support.

Inland water really is a feature, not a nice to have.

:(

[fabio_chavez 103]

Recent twitter post by DayZ dev, which obv isn't this game but same people/company

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/218337-twitter-senchi-for-now-we-have-no-solution-for-proper-rivers-on-a-map-maybe-in-future/

even they dont have an answer... not very encouraging... though as far as ponds are concerned it should be more simple

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

even they dont have an answer... not very encouraging... though as far as ponds are concerned it should be more simple

What if you take someone's water texture, and it is for example, a large pond, or pool. There should be the ability to create, let's say a box. The top of the box is the surface of a swim able module. Diving underneath that surface should also be swimable. This way, one can create inland water modules for their terrain, just by having a water module that is placable in designated areas. For more complex solutions and water formations, a sync option could be used, where connecting two differently shaped water modules will be combined to eliminate the problem of transition, if that were to arise. Just a thought I had.

[Chairborne 2594]

A recently released terrain has pools and fountains, even though they're not deep enough to swim.

Maybe you should look that up. They look pretty cool, too.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Chairborne

[zukov 490]

is better if you move to cryengine

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

is better if you move to cryengine

I feel as if there are some engines designed for Arcade, and Cry Engine is one of them. I couldn't see something like Arma and it's massive terrains and ballistics properly moved to the Cry Engine. It wouldn't feel the same, just to get features like ponds. It needs to be built in this Engine.

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

A recently released terrain has pools and fountains, even though they're not deep enough to swim.

Maybe you should look that up. They look pretty cool, too.

Hmmm, what terrain is that? I'll look around.

[Chairborne 2594]

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27701

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27701

Ahhh, this one. I found a few pools on this map. One and tr villa and another. Of course, it wasn't swim able water though, simply a texture. As for the fountain or other water sources, I havn't actually seen myself. Something like a creek would be easy to implement, just a texture of running water with its own particle effect like roads have for dust, except when soldiers and vehicles interact with it, it produces a splashy particle effect. This is no fun of course, it's just for looks. An actual river isn't hard to do I'm sure. But inland water sources are needed for things such as say, an actual Dam, with a continuing waterway 100 meters bellow or so. Of course, that water level could on ground level as apposed to the water being held by the Dam. This is an example. There's currently no map with Dam.

[Chairborne 2594]

I don't know if it's just textures, i just remember going below ground level and seeing water effects (sound muffled, blurry view, etc) but i have to admit i haven't played around with it too much.