Bohemia Interactive please comment on whats hindering you to introduce Ponds to Arma3

[andersson 285]

That said keep this tread alive. As bis don't deserve to get off that lightly. Considering they have purposely ignored this tread.

They haven't ignored it. Dwarden did comment and we are waiting for a more indepth explanation from him.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?183119-Bohemia-Interactive-please-comment-on-whats-hindering-you-to-introduce-Ponds-to-Arma3&p=2783972&viewfull=1#post2783972

[linuxmaster9 101]

Personally I dont see the issue (legally) with BIS using code from VBS (created by their sister company BI Simulations) Since they are technically the same company. If it is engine code to make ArmA 3 better and more optimized, use it. If it would allow it to be 64bit, frackin use it! VBS 3 has rivers and lakes and ponds. It has caves and underground stuff. It has those 'wet' textures and so on. Heck, it has the acumulating snow thing where a map can be summer and start snowing and the snow will build up and collect on structures......We want this feature stuff. Surely, there is a way for BI Studios and BI Simulations to share engine code and such.

Example from the VBS3 Manual. They have a 64bit version.

VBS3 is designed to run on the widest possible range of desktop computer systems, readily available from many distributors. Most desktop systems sold in the last three years will run VBS3, provided a reasonable graphics card is included.

For simulation, VBS3 may require more specialist setup depending on the desired field of view and frame rate.

1.1.1.1 Operating system

VBS3 includes both a 32 and 64 bit version that runs on Windows (Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7) and employs DirectX 9.0. VBS3 is compatible with 64-bit versions of Windows and can be deployed on those systems, and if the 64 bit version of VBS3 is used, then VBS3 can utilize extended 64-bit addressing.

VBS3 is not available on other platforms; however, VBSWorlds can be used to create new training games for deployment on a range of different devices.

1.1.1.2 CPU

VBS3 is designed to utilize multiple cores on a multi core CPU and will enjoy performance gains over a single core CPU.

1.1.1.3 GPU

No specific provision or optimization is provided for multiple-GPU accelerated rendering (e.g. SLI, Crossfire). Any performance or quality differences are entirely controlled by the video card devices and drivers. Support for the PhysX library from NVIDIA has been deployed within VBS3 from v1.50. Hardware acceleration is not required at this time. It is anticipated, however, that hardware acceleration of the PhysX routines will only be available on NVIDIA platform video cards.

Another thing is that clearly in the Manual, It states that BIS and BIsim are the same company. Hence the confusion as to why they cant share engine code.

1.1.3 Armed Assault

Be aware that Bohemia Interactive has developed multiple products based upon successive iterations of it's game engine. For serious users (Military, Commercial) there is the VBS series of training and analytical tools, whilst the entertainment market has the Armed Assault (ARMA) family of products. There are similarities between the two, but each product stream has been tailored to their specific intended audience. The VBS3 installation includes both VBS3 and Armed Assault units and vehicles.

Armed Assault addons consist of a range of additional BLUFOR and OPFOR unit and vehicle representations. Armed Assault units and vehicles may not be as realistic as VBS3 content and ‘player color’ will not be visible for Armed Assault units. Only VBS3 units and vehicles will have NATO standard military symbols and only VBS3 vehicles will have working indicators.

Armed Assault units and vehicles are easily identified by the text [Game] in front of their name in the Mission Editor.

Notte: Armed Assault 2/3 add-ons can not be used with VBS3.

https://manuals.bisimulations.com/vbs3/3-0/manuals/Content/Admin_Manual/Installation_Armed_Assault.htm

Edited September 30, 2014 by LinuxMaster9

[il_padrino 1530]

I'm not asking them to give us the LandBuilder features that automatically change the base terrain heightmap and produce a second water heightmap for you.

I wish we had something like this in Arma :)

(from 0:55 onwards)

obO5sbziqjM

[Chairborne 2594]

//cut

Well let's put it this way... people pay for VBS licenses for these features, if you put the same features in a 50 bucks game nobody buys VBS anymore.

This goes even if they don't have legal limitations for said features, BIS might think it's still more profitable to just keep those features a VBS exclusive, who knows.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I wish we had something like this in Arma :)

(from 0:55 onwards)

obO5sbziqjM

For some of that stuff, like the placement of objects and what not, the X-Cam mod I believe pulls off a goo portion of that pretty well, making work flow for placing objects on a map a breeze, and artistic process.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

In fact, I think they are well on tier way to solving the issue on their own if they're interested in looking further into it. Then maybe we could get some headway with ponds maybe. Here e link.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?182748-X-Cam-prototype-map/page11

[lordprimate 159]

Well let's put it this way... people pay for VBS licenses for these features, if you put the same features in a 50 bucks game nobody buys VBS anymore.

This goes even if they don't have legal limitations for said features, BIS might think it's still more profitable to just keep those features a VBS exclusive, who knows.

However, when you put out a Half finished product with almost NO Content... Rivers and streams and ponds, can easily fill the gap and make it ALMOST worth 50 bux... as of right now i will NEVER spend more then 30 on ARMA 3... I bought it in alpha.. and i am happy for that. because even though there are some advancements in ARMA 3 over arma 2... It SERIOUSLY LACKS... IN SO MANY AREAS...

The current state of arma3 is HARDLY worth $50 much less the $59.99 it actually is selling for ... thats $60 for a unfinished game with a bunch of glitches and next to no original content.... HARDLY WORTH $60.... Ponds and streams and the like, would make up for some of this missing Bullshit but is hardly cause to say that it would affect VBS sales... If anything at all it will simply INCREASE ARMA 3 sales....

the Ponds and water features mentioned and desired in this thread are but a fucking DROP in the POND(pun intended)... of all the things that need to happen to make ARMA 3 actually Worth $60...

I mean for fucks sake the only way to get another thread in your cpu is to " buy another fucking copy of arma...." and run it as a headless client.... How fucking asinine is that.... In order to get any decent performance out of your game you have to buy another copy of the game... You cant play it, or do anything with it.. I just joins a server to give that server better perf... Its not even going to help Singelplayer content..... its a $60 performance DLC.... and its bullshit!!!!!!

Thread derailment is going to happen when you bring up any subject relating to the Lack of developing important features of ARMA 3...

All that ranting and raving aside i still do own ARMA 3 and love to play it ... but DAMN BIS... WAKE UP... GET WITH THE TIMES.... 64 bit has been out for a while and every other game producing company is utilizing it... WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!! lets get some GD water features.... some Females... (countless videos on youtube of females in the field... let the female gamers have a fucking female avatar you sexist fucks)... Its not just about if there are actually femals in Combat its about FEMALE GAMERS, Being able to be a Fucking Female in a game.. and not being force to play as a fucking man... I can go on and on... bottom line is WAKE THE FUCK UP AND GET WITH THE TIMES....

Honestly I hope some other company comes out the wood work and surpasses BIS with a beautiful and streamlined game(a sanbox / milsim).. Only because when you have ONE company producing something that a bunch of people want, they have a monopoly on that product... If some other companies get in to the sandbox/milSim type game genre. BIS would have no choice but to compete.. and produce better content.... As of right now they can care less there the only ones putting this type of game on the market...

Edited September 30, 2014 by Lordprimate

[Smurf 12]

Primate indeed.

@topic:

ARMA 3 DLC - GAIA (Going along with Zeus... greeks right?)

Features:

Rivers, ponds, actual waves, rain that matters;

Trenches, mud, midrange textures and micro terrain improvements;

Fire that looks like fire (and FX in general) and spread like fire;

Wind... erm got nothing on this (Ballistic sheet will be on Marksman DLC, right? :) );

A lot more wildlife from across various ecossystems;

Trees!;

All that packed in 2 different theme islands!

Who would buy that?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Primate indeed.

@topic:

ARMA 3 DLC - GAIA (Going along with Zeus... greeks right?)

http://www.josephinewall.co.uk/goddesses/sadness_gaia.jpg

Features:

Rivers, ponds, actual waves, rain that matters;

Trenches, mud, midrange textures and micro terrain improvements;

Fire that looks like fire (and FX in general) and spread like fire;

Wind... erm got nothing on this (Ballistic sheet will be on Marksman DLC, right? :) );

A lot more wildlife from across various ecossystems;

Trees!;

All that packed in 2 different theme islands!

Who would buy that?

I sure as he'll would!

[Dwarden 1125]

for 1000+1 times, BI and BISIM for quite some aren't one company ... you looking on obsolete manual entry from Arma 1 times

[Bouben 3]

Ponds, rivers and puddles confirmed!

Those are three things. 3... Half Life 3 con...fi.....r.....m..........

[linuxmaster9 101]

for 1000+1 times, BI and BISIM for quite some aren't one company ... you looking on obsolete manual entry from Arma 1 times

Interesting since the web address as well as the manual clearly state VBS3. Unless VBS3 came out with ArmA 1..............

manuals.bisimulations.com/vbs3/3-0/manuals/Content/Admin_Manual/Installation_Armed_Assault

You are here: VBS3 Administrator Manual > Installation > Armed Assault

Be aware that Bohemia Interactive has developed multiple products based upon successive iterations of it's game engine. For serious users (Military, Commercial) there is the VBS series of training and analytical tools, whilst the entertainment market has the Armed Assault (ARMA) family of products. There are similarities between the two, but each product stream has been tailored to their specific intended audience. The VBS3 installation includes both VBS3 and Armed Assault units and vehicles.

So based on those snippits from the BI Sim's own website, I question you being an actual dev at BI studio. True, BI Studio and BI Sim are not the SAME company. They just fall under the umbrella known as Bohemia Interactive.

And interesting that you claim it is an obsolete manual since it was last edited on : (last edit: 28 May 2014) https://manuals.bisimulations.com/vbs3/3-0/manuals/Content/Admin_Manual/VBS3_Administrator_Manual.htm

Here is another part from the manual that seems kind of "new" since this manual as you say must be a very old and out dated document.

1.1.1.2 CPU

VBS3 is designed to utilize multiple cores on a multi core CPU and will enjoy performance gains over a single core CPU.

Also, I shouldn't have to define this but it seems I do: ArmA 3 stands for Armed Assault version 3. So if BI Sim states in their manual that they use Armed Assault content, then that means they are using content from EVERY Armed Assault version. Also since BI Sim is using Armed Assault content and selling VBS for ~$6000/copy, if they are not the same company or a branch of the same company, wouldnt BI Studios be suing the crap out of them for copyright infringement or Intellectual property infringement?

Edited October 1, 2014 by LinuxMaster9

[Feuerfront 10]

I get that BI and BISIM are two separate companies, but the two products are based around a common base engine code. Yes, VBS diverged from ArmA quite some time ago. That doesn't mean that some of these things cannot be implemented in a similar manner in ArmA's engine. I think we can all appreciate that other issues take priority, but it'd be splendid to at least hear that the ponds/river issue is perhaps being looked into or maybe even why it cannot be done in ArmA 3's engine if that is the case.

[fabio_chavez 103]

+1 on Gaia DLC

[kklownboy 43]

?

Also, I shouldn't have to define this but ...

then dont.Its above your education level to comprehend.

[vran. 13]

Wouldn't it be possible to simulate ponds by making an object of sorts? One with a transparent/watery texture on top. Or just make the terrain bellow sea level on that specific place (same concept as lakes).

I think what people are starting to notice is that some related products (i.e. Day-Z standalone, VBS 3) are starting to surpass the core Arma franchise in engine features and such but we have to keep in mind those are being developed by different groups and for specific audiences. But I think there will be atleast some functionality from the latest VBS in future BI products. It happened before so here's the optimism. :p

[Deadfast 43]

So based on those snippits from the BI Sim's own website, I question you being an actual dev at BI studio

I can assure you Dwarden is a BI employee, just as his profile says. As such I would say that his word bares a little bit more weight than quote mining a manual.

Also, I shouldn't have to define this but it seems I do: ArmA 3 stands for Armed Assault version 3.

Actually, no, it does not.

So if BI Sim states in their manual that they use Armed Assault content, then that means they are using content from EVERY Armed Assault version.

By that logic owning a copy of Arma would make you eligible for getting Arma 2, Arma 3, and any other upcoming Arma game for free.

Also since BI Sim is using Armed Assault content and selling VBS for ~$6000/copy, if they are not the same company or a branch of the same company, wouldnt BI Studios be suing the crap out of them for copyright infringement or Intellectual property infringement?

Perhaps for the same reason Epic Games aren't suing the crap out of every single gaming company that has ever published a game based on the Unreal Engine - a deal has been made?

[Dwarden 1125]

@linuxmaster9, you operate with tons of outdated and obsolete informations , e.g.

there is no Bohemia Interactive Studios , again for years ... (if I remember right that was s.r.o. which was like LLC)

the actual company is Bohemia Interactive a.s. (company type similar to e.g. PLC)

[andersson 285]

Pfff, what do you know Dwarden..? Just being a BI developer hanging around for over a decade do not give you any credibility compared to a proffesional web surfer! ;)

[Feuerfront 10]

Yeah, so back to the whole water in *Arma 3* thing...

@Dwarden, is the two heightmap solution something that could be implemented in Arma 3? From an outsider's perspective, it looks like it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world, but nothing's ever easy. Maybe you guys have evaluated some other method? It must have come up at least once in the last decade.

[654wak654 25]

...ARMA 3 DLC - GAIA (Going along with Zeus... greeks right?)...

I think MCC beat you and BI on that... Like way far ahead.

[DJankovic 401]

@Dwarden You said on first reply when u have time you will reply on main question now 3rd reply still not wright answer only some argie about BIS sim,no sim studio no studio. Can you please reply and tell us why VBS 3 have rivers and arma 3 dont?

[R0adki11 3949]

@Dwarden You said on first reply when u have time you will reply on main question now 3rd reply still not wright answer only some argie about BIS sim,no sim studio no studio. Can you please reply and tell us why VBS 3 have rivers and arma 3 dont?

Im sure Dwarden will reply to the question when he is ready do so, please be patient.

[fabio_chavez 103]

when the time comes, it would be nice to hear something on the other compability related issues from the original post too :}

[Tyl3r99 41]

@Dwarden You said on first reply when u have time you will reply on main question now 3rd reply still not wright answer only some argie about BIS sim,no sim studio no studio. Can you please reply and tell us why VBS 3 have rivers and arma 3 dont?

BIS and BI are different companies!!!!!

[il_padrino 1530]

Still waiting for the official response :)