[MELB] Mission Enhanced Little Bird - WIP

[diesel5187 73]

I would like to officially introduce sykoCrazy's and I current project the [MELB] Mission Enhanced Little Bird. A project we have been working on and off for a few months.

Since the model is finally taking shape, we would like to share a little teaser with the community. What has taken the most amount of time is getting all of the most current pictures, weapons, and capabilities to begin to create the most accurate helicopter our abilities will allow.

This project is meant to represent the latest and most current version of the MH-6M and AH-6M special operations helicopter.

Features:

Current:

-Most accurate model we could create (Still a WIP)

Planed:

-Service Menu (Custom weapon load-outs, switch from attack to transport and vice versa, additional fuel tanks)

-Accurate Flight Model

Currently being assessed: (Please share your thoughts)

-AH-6X/MH-6X UAV variants

Weapons:

Current:

-M134

-GAU-19

-M260

Planed:

-DGAR (with a more current model is in the works)

-Hellfires

Currently being assessed: (Please share your thoughts)

-Mk-19

-Stingers Missile

-M230

Dismissed:

-TOW Missile

Assets:

Current:

-Benches (6 man)

-FLIR

-IR Jammer

Planed:

-Benches with extra fuel tanks

-Extra Internal Fueltank (Variants)

-Ropes

Pictures:

ARMA 2 Little Bird

[MELB] Mission Enhanced Little Bird

Credits:

-BIS for their base ARMA 2 Little Bird model

-sykoCrazy for his model

-Diesel5187 for scripting

Edited June 1, 2015 by Diesel5187

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Awesome. I think it would be amazing if the MH/AH-9 had the same kind of things going for it. Though, looking forward to these. :D

[roberthammer 582]

Nice btw dont forget to use AH6X from OA mlods - it has Flir pod and modernized cockpit with MFDs

[diesel5187 73]

Nice btw dont forget to use AH6X from OA mlods - it has Flir pod and modernized cockpit with MFDs

FLIR is going to be made from scratch, but so you have an idea, there will be 1 base model and everything else will get attached by the service menu or by an init line.

[tybo25 18]

Sounds interesting! As for the assesment of the possible armaments: I think everything except the MK-19 would be nice to use and also make sense.

[diesel5187 73]

Sounds interesting! As for the assessment of the possible armaments: I think everything except the MK-19 would be nice to use and also make sense.

I am inclined to agree with you, but it is listed as one of the weapons on the Wikipedia page. We have yet to confirm the weapon in an actual picture.

I see its usefulness in two scenarios.

One where an AH-6 is scouting in advance of transport helicopters and it can deploy a high quantity of 40mm smoke shells to act as cover between an enemy and the approaching helicopters.

The second to help mark a safe LZ, again for incoming transport helicopters.

Besides that, the ark trajectory of this round would make it rather difficult to judge where it would impact.

[reallybigrocks 10]

All the sources I can find say that it can have Mk 19s but no pictures.

I was also wondering if you had put any thought into making the AH/MH-6X rather than the M variant. The X is pretty much the same except that it can also be controlled remotely and I think that would fit better with the near future setting in the game.

[diesel5187 73]

All the sources I can find say that it can have Mk 19s but no pictures.

I was also wondering if you had put any thought into making the AH/MH-6X rather than the M variant. The X is pretty much the same except that it can also be controlled remotely and I think that would fit better with the near future setting in the game.

Yeah, there are a few things we thought impossible, then we saw a LB with 2 GAU-19s and extra armament. After that we agreed that almost anything is possible with this "little bird".

We will be taking the UAV version into consideration, as a matter of fact, we have seen the videos.

[Przemro 18]

Will it have flares? It need flares so bad.

[sykocrazy 67]

Will it have flares? It need flares so bad.

Yep, we're working on adding IR jammers to the final version of the mod.

[Waxitron 26]

Flares run out. Then your screwed and crashing.

IR Jammers are a far more effective countermeasure. If they are designed with an overheat function, they can be used tactically to spoof missiles effectivly.......but only if your are very smart about usage, have good timing, and a small measure of luck.

If you want a taste of this, go check out the AH-64 from NodUnit and Franze.

Sykes, Diesel, as always I excited to see more developments!

[BlackViperGaming 3]

Hey guys, Ive looked into the MK-19 Variant of the MELB quite a bit once I saw that there was some confusion regarding it being an actual variant of the MELB in real life. Here is what I came up with.

From what I could see there is only this variant with the M134 and the rocket pods:

And this variant with the M134 and rocket pods and aa pods/missile pods:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/SAS_2010_AH-6.JPG (1126 kB)

I also found this picture from Flight International showing a breakdown of all the AH-6 MELB and it doesn't depict any sort of MK-19:

Okay, now for the only indication I could see that it had a mk19 was from Battlefield 2. If you look directly underneath the M134 you can see a tube which could possibly be the barrel for the MK19.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110824104526/battlefield/images/6/69/BF2MC_Littlebird_1.jpg (632 kB)

Now this is a photo I found from IRL but I can't tell if this is the back of the M134 or an actual MK-19:

Anyways so my conclusion is that the AH-6 MELB never had a MK-19 as part of its armament, my guess is it would be far to inaccurate and non effective to be actually implemented. But thats what I gathered. Remember that anyone can edit and add stuff into Wikipedia, but thats just my 2cents.

-Black Viper

[deltagamer 612]

@Diesel5187 Will you add the feature or have the ability to let people sit on the mounting platform on each side of the AH version like in battlefield 3?

[LykosMactire 298]

@blackviper

in the last picture, thats likely a mk-19 or something similar, that doesnt look like a m134 to me

[sykocrazy 67]

@BlackViperGaming

Thank you for the great amount of input and research. Although the first picture is from an RC version of the AH-6J, it accurately depicts the most common loadout that has been used in the attack variant throughout the years.

I agree with AngelWing in that the last picture really looks like a mk-19. You can see the tip of the gun barrel and it looks about right for a mk-19 barrel width. Also, it appears to be using a mount that rotates on a fixed axis. Anyway, the paint job is reminiscent of the vietnam era "Loaches", but you can also see a black bird right in front of it. This leads me to believe that this was either used as an early test platform for the 160th back in the 80s or a one-off used in Vietnam. These guys really like to test out different ideas, so it's hard to figure out which ones they throw away and which ones they stick with. We've found a variety of different combinations using the weapons listed in the thread, with the excpetion of the mk-19 and the 30mm. For example, there are birds using dual GAU-19s, dual Hellfire pods, GAU-19+dual M134+M261.. the list goes on. We've talked about how innacurate the gun would be as well and you're completely right about people adding wrong information in wikipedia.

Of course we'll never know with certainty what kind of weaponry the 160th is using currently, so we just try to pick the ones that make sense and that people will actually use and have fun with.

@deltagamer

Thanks for the question. We don't plan on adding that feature because, as far as we know, the helicopter wouldn't be able to carry the additional weight. Now i'm not saying that in real life a crazy Night Stalker hasn't carried people in the back, i'm just saying that it wouldn't be possible if it was full of ammo. And also you would at most be able to load 2 guys and it would be a very uncomfortable ride.

Edited June 16, 2014 by sykoCrazy

[gatordev 219]

Flares run out. Then your screwed and crashing.

IR Jammers are a far more effective countermeasure. If they are designed with an overheat function, they can be used tactically to spoof missiles effectivly.......but only if your are very smart about usage, have good timing, and a small measure of luck.

This isn't really true. Without getting into the weeds, a set of IRCMs should only be used on certain aircraft in certain configurations, and should not be used with certain missile systems. I'm not really sure where you'd even put an IRCM (let alone two) on an H-6, but would be interested to see a picture if someone has one.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Now this is a photo I found from IRL but I can't tell if this is the back of the M134 or an actual MK-19:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9955/oh6xm802.jpg

Appears to be a M75 or M129 40mm Grenade Launcher. They were fitted to UH-1, AH-1G and ACH-47A during the Vietnam War.

Evidently it was tried on the OH-6 Cayuse too.

Edited June 16, 2014 by da12thMonkey

[sykocrazy 67]

This isn't really true. Without getting into the weeds, a set of IRCMs should only be used on certain aircraft in certain configurations, and should not be used with certain missile systems. I'm not really sure where you'd even put an IRCM (let alone two) on an H-6, but would be interested to see a picture if someone has one.

I haven't been able to find actual pictures. I did come across various sites, including the Army's own page on special ops helicopters, pointing towards this being a reality, there's also a RFI that SOCOM put out a couple of years ago i think of them asking for companies to develop a lighe weight IRCM system as part of their upgrade package for the MELB block 3.

I'll keep looking for pictures and post them here as soon as i can.

Edited June 16, 2014 by sykoCrazy

[BlackViperGaming 3]

Appears to be a M75 or M129 40mm Grenade Launcher. They were fitted to UH-1, AH-1G and ACH-47A during the Vietnam War.

Evidently it was tried on the OH-6 Cayuse too.

Definitely the m129 40mm GL. But I still don't really see the benefit of having a grenade launcher on an airframe. Grenade launchers have a large drop off and generally aren't really that accurate.

[aspire 11]

None of those pictures are relevant. The stubby wings of the AH-6 act as external stores just like the wings of AH-64 Apaches. If it says that the Mk19 could be mounted, it was mounted at some point.

[PVT Watt.J 14]

If it says that the Mk19 could be mounted, it was mounted at some point.

Actually, the pictures are relevant and the fact that it probably can be mounted is not. It's not a question of whether it is technically possible or whether they tested it out once or twice. It's more a question of whether it was actually used in service to any meaningful extent and actually makes any sense to use. The lack of pictures showing mounted GLs is evidence that this option has not been used in practice. A little bit of clear thinking also shows that automatic grenade launchers are lousy weapons for helicopters. These two reasons both make a pretty strong case the the inclusion the MK19 isn't really necessary.

Of course, the modders here have complete authority to add whatever they want to it! But as far as historical evidence about what makes sense, it is the actual in-the-field usage that matters more than mere technical possibility.

[sykocrazy 67]

Actually, the pictures are relevant and the fact that it probably can be mounted is not. It's not a question of whether it is technically possible or whether they tested it out once or twice. It's more a question of whether it was actually used in service to any meaningful extent and actually makes any sense to use. The lack of pictures showing mounted GLs is evidence that this option has not been used in practice. A little bit of clear thinking also shows that automatic grenade launchers are lousy weapons for helicopters. These two reasons both make a pretty strong case the the inclusion the MK19 isn't really necessary.

Of course, the modders here have complete authority to add whatever they want to it! But as far as historical evidence about what makes sense, it is the actual in-the-field usage that matters more than mere technical possibility.

You hit the nail on the head there, Shadow. What we're aiming for is a selection of weapons/equipment that people would use and have fun with ingame. In some cases, that means creating assets from scratch, which takes time. So discussing these topics really helps us figure out what we should and shouldn't spend time on.

[dslyecxi 23]

Having TOW and Stinger options would certainly be welcome. Hellfires are nice, but the manual guidance of a TOW tends to be more interesting from a gameplay standpoint. Stingers would allow for a nice, basic AA capability which could be quite a bit of fun as well.

Good luck on the mod - it'll be interesting to see the different takes on the AH-6 in Arma 3, as there are apparently at least three different groups working on such a project currently.

[sykocrazy 67]

Having TOW and Stinger options would certainly be welcome. Hellfires are nice, but the manual guidance of a TOW tends to be more interesting from a gameplay standpoint. Stingers would allow for a nice, basic AA capability which could be quite a bit of fun as well.

Good luck on the mod - it'll be interesting to see the different takes on the AH-6 in Arma 3, as there are apparently at least three different groups working on such a project currently.

TOWs are definitely going to be a lot of fun to use. As for the Stingers, we're looking into how they're mounted onto the AH-6 as we haven't been able to find any pictures, videos or schematics yet. For now we're studying the rack that's used in the OH-58.

[gatordev 219]

I haven't been able to find actual pictures. I did come across various sites, including the Army's own page on special ops helicopters, pointing towards this being a reality, there's also a RFI that SOCOM put out a couple of years ago i think of them asking for companies to develop a lighe weight IRCM system as part of their upgrade package for the MELB block 3.

I'll keep looking for pictures and post them here as soon as i can.

Sure enough, they mention the ALQ on there. I do caution that what the PAO puts on a website may not match reality.

Regardless of whether it can fit, understand that its use isn't widespread, depending on the threat in theater, regardless of helicopter. It can actually be very detrimental depending on the weapon system being used by the enemy.