Female character models

[FrankManic 13]

BIS - Please create a female character model. The lack of any female models at all is glaring, unrealistic, does not reflect the composition of modern militaries, and significantly limits modding and mission creation.

Seriously, please. Just make a head, an underwear body, one female military uniform body, and one each civilian T-shirt and shorts and civilian pants and blouse. We can handle everything else. I know people are trying, but frankly we're not the original artists and the resulting models are all a little off looking. Women are an important part of militaries around the world right now and will likely be more so by 2035. And the lack of female civilians really just seems odd.

So, request?

Female head

Female body in briefs and undershirt

female generic BLUFOR military uniform

Female civilian casual clothes - t-shirt and shorts

Female civilian business casual clothes - blouse and pants

That framework would give modders a strong base from which to expand and handle everything else - OPFOR uniforms, reporters, more civilians, helicopter pilots, whatever. I know it's a lot of work to make a new model entirely from scratch. Y'all are much better suited to do that work than the community, though. Don't even worry about voice packs or anything, I'm sure there are women in the ARMA community who could be tapped to help with that if we can get the models.

BIS had time to make Karts as, more or less, a joke. Please find the time to address this limitation on the game.

TLDR; There are no girls in the future and that's really weird.

Additional thought - I have no idea what the legal situation regarding ownership of assets is between BIS and Rocket, but I do think it's worth mentioning that DayZ has fully functioning female character models. I know DayZ and ARMA3 aren't running on the same engine branch, but still - It's not impossible, and someone in the BIS family has already worked on it.

PS - Karts is hilarious and you should get it.

Edited May 30, 2014 by FrankManic

[Fushko 59]

Wouldn't they also need to make a new voice acting session? You'd have to take that into account.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Wouldn't they also need to make a new voice acting session? You'd have to take that into account.

With 1300+ hours in Arma 3, i honestly don't have a problem with civilian females, but i honestly don't want to have to put down a chick because she poses a threat to my Special Forces unit. My personal opinion. Civilian's, yes, active duty, not so much.

[roshnak 41]

With 1300+ hours in Arma 3, i honestly don't have a problem with civilian females, but i honestly don't want to have to put down a chick because she poses a threat to my Special Forces unit. My personal opinion. Civilian's, yes, active duty, not so much.

It's good to see that you have such a progressive attitude.

[Gutsnav 13]

I know a servicewoman currently serving in the US Marines... She can beat the crap out of guys in her own unit. Implementing a female model should be (if any) a long term goal. It's a lot of work to do, and the devs still have to work out all the bugs and implement all the engine features without melting everyone's computer. Maybe in the "Expansion" DLC (2015).

[instagoat 133]

The difference between shooting a male and a female human being is what, exactly?

Even the Cods and Baddulfields have female character models. BI also have stated before that the reason they were not put in was time and resources, so I hope that we will see them at some point.

Take on Helicopters had full female voice profiles for players. It didn't care if the unit it assigned the voice to was male or female (as in, the 3D model), but it regularily caused Units to voice themselves as females. I once had a "female" squad leader when playing the OA merge on the big Karzhegistan map.

So, there.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Maybe... Well, there was this one time i played DayZ Epoch, and well... We left a guy at base AFK, he died so i rushed back to find him in a shed bleed from literally 60 different places. LOL, it was one of 2 chicks on that server who happened to have an Armed SUV with a mini-gun on top... Though, she wasn't too great in combat. Lets just say i went back for revenge... Back on topic though, i guess it could be great for cut senses, for example, a female logistical officer giving orders at an FOB or CP (Command Post). Though having it available, people could use that in game, as well.

[RushHour 11]

I know a servicewoman currently serving in the US Marines... She can beat the crap out of guys in her own unit

Doesn´t speak too well about the rest of the unit. Equal knowledge and men will win everytime because.....well...physics.

[roshnak 41]

It's a good thing that serving in the military isn't the equivalent of an arm wrestling contest, then. Maybe we could try to put aside whether men are stronger than women or whatever for a little while and recognize that women are serving in militaries around the world and have served in combat roles in conflicts throughout history.

[FrankManic 13]

As stated - I don't care about voice models. That's easy for the community to handle. I know US Army soldiers who could read the lines and professional sound technicians who could handle the capture. They can use the same animation set and the same skeleton - Everyone pretty much moves the same under 70lbs of armor and weaponry and crap.

Models and textures are the most difficult thing for the community to produce. I would very much like it if BIS would take this on.

PS - I did some more searching after the initial post and found the rest of this discussion. Please don't turn this into a discussion of whether women "belong" in ARMA. You're free to not use female models if you don't want to.

[almanzo 144]

I fully agree, but this has been debated over and over again.

I doubt we'll see female soldiers in ARMA III, but I hope we'll at least have our female civillians back. I guess the population of Altis are very conservative, locking up their women at home not allowing them to go outdoors.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

I seriously hope we'll have female characters as well, but as has been said there's already plenty of threads on the subject, as well as a feedback tracker ticket I think.

Almanzo, I prefer the theory all the women were evacuated from the island by the time of the civil war. And at the end of the campaign, the planes flying them back in haven't arrived yet. It also explains why there aren't any civilian planes of any kind, so that's a two-fer.

[spamurai 3]

It has nothing to do with the debate surrounding the social/political implications of female soldiers.

Or it shouldn't, despite what certain opposition to the proposal keep dwelling on.

It's much more practical then that. It takes time, effort and most importantly money to create the extra assets needed to add a female avatar. Since the asset isn't needed for any of the BIS generated content of ArmA... it isn't likely to generate any increased revenue. However, if it did exist, it wouldn't mean that it would have to be included in any of the story driven campaigns or user created scenario's. It would mean that modders would finally have what they need to create new content that involved a female avatar. Which the community has been asking for... since the very beginning.

For arguments sake, if BIS wanted to create a complete female alternate avatar for the game that was fully interchangeable with the current male options,

They would need,

- A new avatar model

- A duplicate set of motion capture animations to rig the model. Proportioned to the new female scale

- A new voice pattern and vocabulary library.

- A duplicate set of accessory props to fit the new female scale (vests, uniforms, plate carriers, packs ect).

- A set of new game functions so the code can differentiate between the models when and where needed (?)

There is only 1 male reference model in ArmA and everything is constructed to fit his dimensions. Creating a female model would involve duplicating everything and refitting it to match differences between the two genders.

The community has asked for this for a long time, but it involves the expenditure of resources that, so far, Bohemia apparently can't justify as the return on the investment of manpower and money isn't likely to generate revenue.

Which is sad... because ArmA survives and thrives on the generated content of it's users more then anything else and it seems very shortsighted to intentionally handicap potential possibilities for new content based on a needlessly restrictive convention for what ArmA "should be" or "should not be".

[nodunit 397]

It has nothing to do with the debate surrounding the social/political implications of female soldiers.

Or it shouldn't, despite what certain opposition to the proposal keep dwelling on.

It's much more practical then that. It takes time, effort and most importantly money to create the extra assets needed to add a female avatar. Since the asset isn't needed for any of the BIS generated content of ArmA... it isn't likely to generate any increased revenue. However, if it did exist, it wouldn't mean that it would have to be included in any of the story driven campaigns or user created scenario's. It would mean that modders would finally have what they need to create new content that involved a female avatar. Which the community has been asking for... since the very beginning.

For arguments sake, if BIS wanted to create a complete female alternate avatar for the game that was fully interchangeable with the current male options,

They would need,

- A new avatar model

- A duplicate set of motion capture animations to rig the model. Proportioned to the new female scale

- A new voice pattern and vocabulary library.

- A duplicate set of accessory props to fit the new female scale (vests, uniforms, plate carriers, packs ect).

- A set of new game functions so the code can differentiate between the models when and where needed (?)

There is only 1 male reference model in ArmA and everything is constructed to fit his dimensions. Creating a female model would involve duplicating everything and refitting it to match differences between the two genders.

The community has asked for this for a long time, but it involves the expenditure of resources that, so far, Bohemia apparently can't justify as the return on the investment of manpower and money isn't likely to generate revenue.

Which is sad... because ArmA survives and thrives on the generated content of it's users more then anything else and it seems very shortsighted to intentionally handicap potential possibilities for new content based on a needlessly restrictive convention for what ArmA "should be" or "should not be".

I'll go you one even more simple

-Avatar model -slimmer waist, hourglassish shape and some cleavage but not much..even out of full uniform its likely women would wear a sports bra.

-Voice actresses -a given unless you want a bunch of doctor girlfriends running around...which could be amusing actually...

No need to modify the skeleton or accesories n junk, a vest is a vest regardless of the body its on and when you start messing with that stuff you bring unecessary work upon yourself.

You could lessen the width of the arms and make the shoulders a bit less broad perhaps but ultimate a uniform is going to look like a uniform, the legs are going to look wider than they are baggy or not.

Edited May 31, 2014 by NodUnit

[vegeta897 13]

No need to modify the skeleton or accesories n junk, a vest is a vest regardless of the body its on and when you start messing with that stuff you bring unecessary work upon yourself.

I'm not sure it would work out as great as you might be imagining. A slimmer waist "hourglass figure" with breasts of any size is going to require changes to gear like vests. If you put all the existing male equipment on a female model, it's going to look like a man's body.

[[frl]myke 14]

I'm not sure it would work out as great as you might be imagining. A slimmer waist "hourglass figure" with breasts of any size is going to require changes to gear like vests. If you put all the existing male equipment on a female model, it's going to look like a man's body.

No shit, Sherlock

I doubt you could have recognized those soldiers as females if i would have blurred their heads. I doubt i could. But i guess a lot have the following in their mind when it comes to "women in combat uniform":

(just kidding)

[vegeta897 13]

Myke;2701701']No shit' date=' Sherlock[/quote']

Okay wow, I did not expect a moderator to be outright rude to someone making a civil post. What's your problem?

I think you're missing my point. Any change to the shape of the underlying body of the model is going to cause the gear you put on top of it to either float above the body or clip into it. Posting a real life photo doesn't prove anything with regards to how it's going to look in the game.

Edited May 31, 2014 by vegeta897

[pooroldspike 129]

Some females from Arma2, nice modelling by BIS so now all they need now are some military uniforms..:)

Edited June 1, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[Vigil Vindex 64]

^^ BIS are saving those for the "GRRRL POWER DLC" coming out next mothers day! ;p

[roshnak 41]

Okay wow, I did not expect a moderator to be outright rude to someone making a civil post. What's your problem?

I think you're missing my point. Any change to the shape of the underlying body of the model is going to cause the gear you put on top of it to either float above the body or clip into it. Posting a real life photo doesn't prove anything with regards to how it's going to look in the game.

Unless I'm mistaken, that's not the way uniforms work in Arma. It's not a clothes model on top of the underwear model, it's just a whole separate model that is swapped in and out. I think the vests are layered on top, but even in the unlikely event that the female uniform model is so different from the male that it caused clipping or floating, I doubt it would take much more than pushing and pulling a few verst with soft selection to create a female vest model. You probably wouldn't even need a new set of UVs.

Really, mocap and voice work are probably the things preventing BIS from adding female characters. Assuming that it's not some kind of idealogical thing, of course.

[vegeta897 13]

Unless I'm mistaken, that's not the way uniforms work in Arma. It's not a clothes model on top of the underwear model, it's just a whole separate model that is swapped in and out. I think the vests are layered on top, but even in the unlikely event that the female uniform model is so different from the male that it caused clipping or floating, I doubt it would take much more than pushing and pulling a few verst with soft selection to create a female vest model. You probably wouldn't even need a new set of UVs.

Yes, I know the non-vest non-backpack gear are separate models. That means having to create female versions for every piece of clothing that a female model can equip in the game. As far as the vests, it doesn't really have to be "so different" for it to clip or float over the model. The more minor you make the difference in body shape, the less it's going to look like a female. And I'm talking about non-geared females. Look at how broad the shoulders are on the Arma 3 model. The gear is designed to fit that. A female model with shoulders that broad would look pretty odd. As far as mo-cap, I think the current animations would work fine for female models. I don't have any proof to back that up of course, but it's not like a trained female soldier runs or does any other action that differently than a male.

I didn't say it wouldn't be difficult or easy to do, but the fact remains it's work that needs to be done if this is to look remotely professional.

[roshnak 41]

Yeah, but so what? What is the art department working on that's more important?

[vegeta897 13]

Yeah, but so what? What is the art department working on that's more important?

So what indeed! I'm all for female models in Arma. I only posted in here in response to a specific post claiming that it would be easier than it actually would be.

[roshnak 41]

Oh, then I think you may have just been misunderstanding NodUnit (or I am), since I'm pretty sure he was just cutting out mocap, accessories, rigging a new skeleton, and game functions from Spamurai's list. I'm fairly certain he wasn't intending to downplay the amount of modelling work involved, since he seems to be relatively experienced in that field. There are always a lot of arguments in these threads about how much work it would be to make female soldiers look like girls, when people are really underestimating how much military uniforms hide what's underneath. I think the larger point is that it wouldn't be significantly more difficult to add female soldiers than it would be to add female civilians.

[tpw 2315]

Instead of waving your arms around opining what can/can't be done have a look at this thread from someone who is actually doing it. Zeealex doing some amazing work bringing female soldiers into the game and she could do with the support of you experts.