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Holden93

Ending theories (Win related, spoilers of course)

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I'm pretty sure miller was working for the UK, as Kerry, nor any other AMERICAN there would be high enough rank to know about it.

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The ending is a mess just like all Win episode(after the excellent Survive&Adapt).At first I actually thought that Miller ending is the good one in a sort of "sacrifice a few for the greater good".By stealing the quaky device from CSAT,Nato could be again on equal foot with CSAT.After hearing a conversation between some soldiers in Survive I assume that Nato is still a strong force,but they're greatly weakened by tanking economies in Europe while CSAT has "economic growth,jobs.."(quoting that soldier I heard).

So assuming that both these superpowers Nato&CSAT still have nuke arsenals,CSAT objective was to deploy this weapon against their enemies in a covert way to further weaken Nato by destroying key economical parts of countries that opposed them instead facing them militarily and avoid MAD.This way everyone will think some natural disasters struck.

Otherwise I really have no clue why CSAT would bother with this device unless it does something else and the quakes are just a side-effect.

Of course this scenario goes right out of the window because Miller actions actually triggers a wide scale conflict between CSAT&NATO with the second invasion and could further escalate into WW3.

So he basically didn't accomplished shit or like someone else wrote in the forums maybe he is working for a shadowy organization or huge PMC with direct interest in making both sides start a war.

Now about the Nato ending,I didn't find it positive either.CSAT gets back their toy and temporary things return to normal with AAF surrendering and CSAT retreating.I said temporary because again imo this means on long-term they're free to further develop their quaky device and sooner or later they're going to use it against NATO.

Another theory is that BI went into panic mode and thought "holy crap we actually have to finish this" so we might as well believe this or Miller is Guba reincarnated with a grudge on the whole world.

Edited by Krycek

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In Kerry's ending AAF surrenders.. So how can CSAT escape with the earthquake device? The area that it's in is right near NATO operations. More importantly we don't have a resolution for CSAT. Do they invade them after? I'd really love an espionage/black ops add on that focuses on the device.

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NATO command didn't know about the Device, so for them CSAT simply packing their bags and leaving was the most desired outcome. They wouldn't bother them doing so.

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The higher ups in NATO MEDCOM would have known though. Only Armstrong and the rest of the 111th MBCT (i.e. Kerry) weren't notified about it.

Miller and whoever was left in his security team were then probably tasked to keep on trailing the device on its way back into CSAT territory.

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The ending kinda opens up two possible armaverse story lines. (Maybe future DLC)

One were WW3 has began and NATO and CSAT are going at it with earthquakes instead of nukes ( :confused:) Conflict in the pacific. Huge possibilitys.

Another for a single campaign ala PMC style. PMC's on Altis.

I dont know.

"Conflict in the Pacific." > I don't exactly think the Greek islands of Altis (Lemnos) & Stratis (Agios Efstratios, part of Lemnos) are in the Pacific, they're in the northern part of the Aegean Sea in Greece

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"Conflict in the Pacific." > I don't exactly think the Greek islands of Altis (Lemnos) & Stratis (Agios Efstratios, part of Lemnos) are in the Pacific, they're in the northern part of the Aegean Sea in Greece

 

What?

You didn't pay attention to the story.

There are rising tensions between NATO and CSAT in Pacific - and you can hear about it at the beginning of the campaign, during the chopper ride.

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Endings where rushed in my opinion. You go with NATO and destroy AAF, CSAT decides to F it, go home and the war on Altis is over. But If you don't join the NATO, the entire NATO invasion force and all generals of NATO couldn't defeat AAF and are blind to see that CSAT is coming (in the age of satelites and UAVs). 

Story would have much more sense that even if you joined the NATO assault, CSAT should counter-attack. 

Some would say because NATO was busy with AAF, CSAT managed to retrive that device, that's a BS. On Altis size Island in Mediterran and in 2035 you couldn't even piss without NATO already knowing what you are going to do. That part of Island is like, 6-7km in width and no one from NATO knew that ~2km from their offensive force there is CSAT stronghold and that there was a fighting. BS. The NATO would cover it's flanks before making a push up North-East.

Yeah I thought of it a lot :D

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I just never understand how could CSAT launch a surprise counter offensive.

To reach Altis, they must have to suppress NATO air and fleet to break the blockaded, and there is no way they can do it quietly without alerting NATO forces.

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does anyone remember way back in the beginning of the campaign? when kerry flies across stratis in a helicopter? First they see a strange truck, unreportedly leaving camp Rogain. Then as they fly over camp maxwell there is a helicopter taking off/landing there and Adams makes a comment saying he doesnt know whats going on. Then when they get to camp Rogain they need to move these mysterious trucks for commander McKinnon to move "something" at Kamino, until they are interupted by the AAF betrayal. I cant get it out of my head

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The truck leaving Rogain is McKinnon's car (the one that is later blown up). At Maxwell the helicopter is indeed Miller and his team landing, I wouldn't read anything into the truck moving other than for the stated logistical purposes.

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My best guess is that NATO knew about the earthquake device and they wanted it as badly as CSAT.And Miller and his team was the way to do this.They fought alongside the FIA for long time,gather information and when the time was right stole the device( Follow Miller ending) or CSAT beat them(Push with the attack ending).And if anything goes wrong blame the Brits for acting alone mentioning that Miller and his team was working as a covert-black ops.Now let's suppose that Tanoa campaign will continue from where East Wind left off and let's suppose that B.I. will recognize the Game Over ending as canon so Miller has the device.The real question is what he will do with it?He'll deliver it to NATO as ordered?Sell it to a third party?Keep it for himself?Destroy it?He's a good guy?A bad guy?Both?I'm really interested to see what will happen next... ;)

 

E.G. Don't take my words to seriously,all this is just speculation and theories of mine.

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From what I understood during the campaign, the CTRG (Combat Technology Research Group) team led by Miller was on Stratis/Altis just for the device (UK Black-Ops).

 

Concerning the rest however, we don't have a clue about why the AAF attacked NATO.

 

My guess:

it's still related to the device.

AAF and CSAT were working together (more or less) and the AAF attacked NATO because of CTRG sticking their nose in AAF/CSAT business.

 

It would be good however to know exactly why - ATM it's only guess.

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Well, the backstory for the Apex-campaign includes a massive natural disaster at Tanoa, with the player as a member of a CTRG-team snooping around there. You'd be excused for making certain assumptions in regards to that.

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Guest ti0n3r

Hmm I decided to help Miller out, which transitions into the Game Over mission. Is there another ending mission if you decide to instead link up with NATO for the final attack?

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Yes. If you ignore James' radio message and follow your orders, you'll continue to Paradise Found instead (which I assume is the canonical ending given the setting for Apex). Keep in mind that you cannot decide to help James and then return to the front line as you're considered a "renegade" by BLUFOR units and will be shot on sight.

 

This also applies to linking up with NATO and then investigating the facility; James will be dead (so you can't be briefed by him) and the Tempest with the device will be gone, although you will still find some CSAT specops lurking around.

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// A3 APEX SPOILER //

 

 

 

In Protocol Apex, 07 Final Point

 

You can actualy find James as a CTRG member. We can not identify him because he wear the new helmet so it's maybe another James in the CTRG group. You guys can try to kill him and remove his hat to see if this is actualy him but i think that will break the rules of the game. The apex mission take place 1 month after the original campaign East Wind

screenshot : https://i.gyazo.com/e5320d57dac0cd8ff6580b665f51c6ea.jpg

The Super weapon they call east wind was in the CSAT side so i guess we take place in the Episode A where we let James alone and help Crossroad. So James survive if Kerry dont come in the Episode B zone to spend the last energy of James explaining him the situation.

 

I have two questions with Apex missions :

 

Why CSAT used a terrorist group and a super tsunami weapon to destroy tanoa ?

and

There will be a solo campaign ( not the coop campaign ) ?

 

 

PS:Sorry for the bad english

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Why CSAT used a terrorist group and a super tsunami weapon to destroy tanoa ?

and

There will be a solo campaign ( not the coop campaign ) ?

CSAT used the east wind device to artificially create natural disasters, so they could then come in and help "stabilize the country". The exact quote from the final mission intro was "Grooming a network of Pro-CSAT governments".

Pretty much, they mess everything up by arming criminals and creating tsunamis with the East wind device, then they can come in and "save the day" by killing/disarming the criminals and distributing aid for the tsunami damage. 

And as of right now there are no plans for a dedicated solo campaign.

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Yeah, BI retconned his death.

 

James was clearly shown to be dead in either ending of The East Wind, but now he appears back in End Game for whatever reason alongside the rest of Group 14 with the exception of Hardy (who died at the beginning of Adapt after he drags you onto the beach in Kavala).

 

Miller's team must be pretty high up within CTRG in terms of secrecy considering that even the other teams had no idea about what happened to Group 14. This is even mentioned by Riker who says that "I thought Group 14 went dark after Altis" in Heart of Darkness.

 

As for your other points:

 

Why CSAT used a terrorist group and a super tsunami weapon to destroy tanoa ?

 

CSAT follows the Apex Protocol which is essentially a twisted version of America's real-life Reagan Doctrine. It involves a combination of using the Eastwind device and guerrilla/criminal groups to destabilise countries that have ties to the West. So basically any country that has friendly relations to the U.S. or Western Europe (like Tanoa and Altis) will be targeted.

 

The targeted country is partially wrecked by earthquakes and other natural disasters caused by Eastwind (a tsunami in the case of Tanoa), followed by providing pro-CSAT forces inside the country with weapons and funding while having Viper Team cause more havoc in order to further destabilise the country; Riker points out how peculiar it is that there are so many Russian, Chinese and Iranian weapons being used by Syndikat for instance, and after you rescue Miller, he explains why Viper Team is on Tanoa and what they are deployed to do.

 

CSAT then delivers humanitarian aid and helps in providing counter-insurgency training and equipment to "fight off" the insurgency. In return, they gain the favour of the country who then shift away from the West and turn towards CSAT for continued support.

 

In reality however, Solomon (the leader of Syndikat) never trusted CSAT, which is why he decides to double cross Viper Team and sought to claim the Eastwind device for himself; probably to sell it off to the highest bidder or use it as blackmail. This plan eventually backfires on him and results in him being killed and the rest of Syndikat being wiped out by CTRG.

 

There will be a solo campaign ( not the coop campaign ) ?

 

 

Unfortunately, I don't think this will happen any time soon. BI seems pretty dead set on keeping Apex Protocol as multiplayer only.

 

TBH I feel like there are still many questions left to be answered by Apex's ending that make it deserving of something like a story DLC (or something like that :P).

 

Viper Team may have failed to reclaim the device and as a result caused CSAT's Apex Protocol to become publicly exposed worldwide, but what about Eastwind?

 

Any mention of it is deliberately left out of the media while Miller says that the device is "...in safe hands".

 

But wouldn't CSAT have the blueprints to make more? After all, if you choose to investigate the research facility in either ending of The East Wind, you can clearly see three more of the devices inside, so why was CSAT so desperate to relocate the one on Altis that they would be willing to go to war with NATO over it and be desperate enough to sacrifice every single Viper operative on Tanoa just to retrieve it?

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James it recognized to be dead is East Wind ONLY if you go help CTRG instead of following your orders.

 

As the canon ending is the one in which you follow the orders, James can still be alive.

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What do you think about the "super secret weapon" Miller wants so much? Also, why did the CSAT launch a full-scale attack on Altis?

 

The entire campaign felt like the 80's GI Joe cartoon. At least story wise. A Top secret combat team not affiliated with Nato or really named who they truly worked for.  "The Viper" wanting to take out the Spec Ops team. A secret weapon that could cause earthquakes sounded just like the Weather Dominator or one of Destro's secret world domination weapons he made. I was really fine with that also. Because I love GI Joe.

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A Top secret combat team not affiliated with Nato or really named who they truly worked for.

 

?

 

But CTRG is a NATO-affiliated task force. The logo itself has the NATO/OTAN symbol on it and comprises of members from the U.S. and Europe.

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Since this thread is spoiler alert and since you guys talk about Apex Protocol also and i can't use spoiler tags for some reason,i have a question?Did i misunderstood Miller's last words from Apex or he really hid-destroyed the east wind device so no superpower can have it?"It's in safe hands" he said but doesn't tell them where.He was the highest ranking officer on the ground in Tanoa at the end so he could totally order the pilot of the cargo heli to drop-move the device elsewhere,at some point on the way back.It makes sense!

If he did that then he's a true hero for me.

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He was the highest ranking officer on the ground in Tanoa at the end so he could totally order the pilot of the cargo heli to drop-move the device elsewhere,at some point on the way back.

 

Highest ranking in CTRG's Group 14 perhaps but he was still taking direct orders from Maj. Dutton to retrieve the device, not destroy it.

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