Ukraine General

[USSRsniper 0]

Having family members living near Sloviansk, I fully support actions of Ukranian military. If separatists refuse to put down weapons, then put them down like mad dogs and bring some order into area. What other country would treat separatists differently? Hell Russians did same in Crimea having soldiers just in case if Ukranian "insurgency" appears.

[spooky lynx 73]

Meanwhile today joint battle group of 24th mechanized and 79th airmobile brigades was demolished by insurgents' artillery fire. According to various sources from 30 to 100 servicemen died.

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1148/6903/original.jpg (1088 kB)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Quite offensive and very well equiped for "civilian self defense" forces :rolleyes:

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine conflict: Many soldiers dead in 'rocket strike'

It's still not clear who shelled them and with what.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

( Al Jazeera ) Deaths in Ukraine as Russia shuts border

At least 19 troops killed in pre-dawn missile barrage from rebels at Zelenopole border post near Luhansk, Ukraine says.

I hardly doubt anyone used a missile barrage, if you want artillery or rockets...

[Bashka_IF 1]

Your wish is my command :p

Nice vid.

at 6:10 soldier say that civilians thank them , then they all laugh with nasty voices at fools whom they bombed yesterday and who now thank them as liberators.

at 10:50 local residents tell how they were bombed.

current ukraine president behaves like someone authorized him to kill as much civilians as he want after labeling them as terrorists/terrorist-supporters/separatists.

something wrong goes on.

[Tonci87 163]

Damn what did they shell them with?

Look at that Tank, it is literally blown to pieces. Also the devastated area seems quite small for a GRAD attack. If it was a GRAD it must have fired from relatively close range to achieve such a tight spread. The precision also indicates that.

[USSRsniper 0]

Nice vid.

at 6:10 soldier say that civilians thank them , then they all laugh with nasty voices at fools whom they bombed yesterday and who now thank them as liberators.

at 10:50 local residents tell how they were bombed.

current ukraine president behaves like someone authorized him to kill as much civilians as he want after labeling them as terrorists/terrorist-supporters/separatists.

something wrong goes on.

And so called rebels hiding behind civilians backs and then acting like nothing happened.

Edited July 11, 2014 by USSRsniper

[maturin 12]

Having family members living near Sloviansk, I fully support actions of Ukranian military. If separatists refuse to put down weapons, then put them down like mad dogs and bring some order into area. What other country would treat separatists differently? Hell Russians did same in Crimea having soldiers just in case if Ukranian "insurgency" appears.

What other country and especially Russia. If Taganrog was in the hands of Ukrainian separatists, the city would be a pile of ashes by now. If Kazan ever tries to resist the central government, it will look like Grozny.

Look at that Tank, it is literally blown to pieces. Also the devastated area seems quite small for a GRAD attack. If it was a GRAD it must have fired from relatively close range to achieve such a tight spread. The precision also indicates that.

Maybe they hit an ammo dump and had sympathetic detonations after that? The tank clearly cooked off pretty fast, blowing the turret off.

You have some sources?

Sources for blatant pro-Ukrainian propaganda on the country's airwaves? Yeah, watch or read just about anything from the country's mass media.

I'm mostly going by Russians' bemused summaries of Ukrainian news reports, plus the story about the air conditioner attracting a Strela and thus bombing Luganskt ten times. But really, if you read into my political leanings and view of the Russian media in this conflict, and you'll see that trashing the Ukrainian media doesn't paint "my side" in a good light.

Edited July 12, 2014 by maturin

[spooky lynx 73]

Damn what did they shell them with?

Look at that Tank, it is literally blown to pieces. Also the devastated area seems quite small for a GRAD attack. If it was a GRAD it must have fired from relatively close range to achieve such a tight spread. The precision also indicates that.

There's a number of Grad rockets with cluster or guided warheads. Maybe such rockets were used at this time.

[Bashka_IF 1]

And so called rebels hiding behind civilians backs and then acting like nothing happened.

rebels in the city is no reason to bomb the city anyway.

results are not what was expected:

**link removed**

Edited July 14, 2014 by [FRL]Myke
Explicit link removed

[jakerod 254]

rebels in the city is no reason to bomb the city anyway.

results are not what was expected:

**link removed**

Probably shouldn't link to that.

Edited July 14, 2014 by [FRL]Myke
Explicit link removed

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ground forces 'storming Luhansk'

Government forces in eastern Ukraine have begun storming the rebel-held city of Luhansk with tanks, Russian news agency reports quoting rebels say.

He said there were unconfirmed reports of special forces landing by helicopter inside the city of 425,000 people.

[Bee8190 10]

rebels in the city is no reason to bomb the city anyway.

results are not what was expected:

Never mind the rules that video is really quite graphic

Sources for blatant pro-Ukrainian propaganda on the country's airwaves? Yeah, watch or read just about anything from the country's mass media.

Its good to see someone not quoting BBC or CNN just to fit in this thread

Mashable

Ukraine Says Tanks Have Rolled in From Russia

''The Russian Foreign Ministry denied the claim and called it “another fake piece of information.â€

New Republic

''Russia and Ukraine Really Have No Idea What's Going on Along the Border''

Edited July 13, 2014 by Bee8190

[spooky lynx 73]

According to various sources, yesterday UA pro-govt troops were bombed for the first time by Su-25 of insurgents (the damaged plane was captured after emergency landing). Seems that it was repaired and now Novorossia has some new fancy toys.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Its good to see someone not quoting BBC or CNN just to fit in this thread

Other sources are welcomed, but calling BBC "blatant pro-Ukrainian propaganda" would be just laughable.

Edited July 14, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[mistyronin 1181]

Its good to see someone not quoting BBC or CNN just to fit in this thread

Yeah, because everyone is quoting the BBC or the CNN...:j:

I have myself quoted almost all the the main agencies in this thread ( from RIA Novosti to Interfax, through Al Jazeera ). As most of the participants.

In fact that quote of yours show that you have not read much in this thread, as quotes to the CNN can be count with the fingers of your hands.

Not to talk about the implicit comparison between the BBC and the CNN which would be like comparing an apple with an octopus. You should ask to a journalism teacher.

[surpher 1]

(Al Jazeera) Ukraine forces breaks rebel airport blockade

Ukraine forces have ended a rebel blockade of a strategic airport in the east, killing at least 30 rebels, as the country traded charges and threats with Russia, over violations of their joint border during a weekend of fierce military combat.

Ukraine's military said on Monday that its warplanes had inflicted heavy losses on the pro-Russian separatists during air strikes on their positions around Luhansk airport. An armoured convoy, which Kiev said had crossed the border from Russia, was also hit.

(BBC) Ukraine military plane shot down as fighting rages

The An-26 plane was hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft), a statement on the presidential website said.

It said the plane had been targeted with "a more powerful missile weapon" than a shoulder-carried missile, probably fired from Russia.

(The Moscow Times) State-Run News Station Accused of Making Up Child Crucifixion

Russian state-run television station Channel One has come under fire after airing what was reported to be an eyewitness account of a 3-year-old boy having been tortured and crucified by the Ukrainian military in a public square in Slovyansk.

Russian journalist Yevgeny Feldman of the opposition-minded Novaya Gazeta newspaper went to the scene of the purported incident in Slovyansk to ask residents whether they'd seen or heard of any such atrocity. In a nine-minute video posted on YouTube, the local residents he approached consistently said that no such scene had occurred.

Edited July 14, 2014 by surpher

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Haha a statement from the president,so yeah must be true and you should all believe him! but still nothing in the western propaganda press about the countless casualties in Ukraine and Russia, death or wounded, but yeah all its all propagada right?

its a freaking shame, but keep blaming Russia while believing your lovely western propaganda!

and do you really want to look on till Russia says it enough? and they still will be show as the agressors and should be act upon. you wanna go fight Russia ,because your goverment say so?

open your eyes or atleast your minds and see what really is going on.

but yeah attack me again,try to debunk it while you know its true!

[spooky lynx 73]

Sgt.Spoetnik , c'mon we, Russians, will always be blamed, either for one or another reason. I've already used to it. The period of friendship between us and 'civilized world' was last years of USSR (when our glorious president Gorbachev and already dead minister of international affairs Shevardnadze lost almost all positions at international field) and early years of Russia, when that drunken bastard Yeltsin and Kozyrev lost the remains of our influence - time period of our weakness. So I think that if our dear democratic partners are in anger - we do everything right.

BTW the newest serial-produced Ukrainian T-64BM Bulat tanks got first battle experience yesterday:

[ProfTournesol 956]

Lol. Your so called influence during USSR was based on the bloody dictatorship of a few aparatchiks, KGB and gulag. You had the chance to become a democratic country but the corruption of your leaders survived the end of USSR, and now they pretend to remain in power by changing your constitution and appealing to xenophobic and nationalist sentiments.

Aren't you shocked by what happened in Sotchi ? How much Putin and his clique stole your money ? Lol at the most expensive motorway in the world...Open your eyes and wake up !

Your country was a great country because of his history, his wonderful artists and writers, but absolutely not by what happened since the Stalinian era.

Edited July 14, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[mistyronin 1181]

Your country was a great country because of his history, his wonderful artists and writers, but absolutely not by what happened since the Stalinian era.

In fact in most of people I talk from different countries consider actual Russia as some kind of soft rogue state like Iran , with an authoritarian right wing "president" ( almost dictator ) that is a warmonger able to start a war in Chechnya to give himself prestige, etc. ( I remember you that I work with Indians, US, Iraqi, Italians, Greeks, etc. )

With the USSR Russia was considered a big rogue state like North Korea with crazy leaders ( like Stalin ).

Putin is admired by right wing extremists and pro-dictatorship, be it in Europe, and specially in South America ( Parties like the German NPD, the successors of the Nazi party ).

Use Google translator to translate this article in a Spanish blog:

Putin, un modelo nacionalpopulista para Europa ( Putin a NationalPopulist referent for Europe )

Also in Spain you can find published a book:

El putinismo: lento ascenso de un régimen de derecha radical en Rusia ( Putinism: the slow rise of radical right wing in Russia ).

---------- Post added at 00:58 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

( BBC ) Ukraine military plane shot down as fighting rages

They say the An-26 plane was hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft).

The plane was targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia. The crew survived, reports say.

Russia has made no comment. Separately, Nato reported a Russian troop build-up near the Ukraine border.

( Al Jazeera ) Ukraine forces break rebel airport blockade

Ukraine forces have ended a rebel blockade of a strategic airport in the east, killing at least 30 rebels, as the country traded charges and threats with Russia, over violations of their joint border during a weekend of fierce military combat.

Ukraine's military said on Monday that its warplanes had inflicted heavy losses on the pro-Russian separatists during air strikes on their positions around Luhansk airport. An armoured convoy, which Kiev said had crossed the border from Russia, was also hit.

Edited July 14, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ballistic09 241]

The plane was targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia.

Not necessarily...

but still nothing in the western propaganda press about the countless casualties in Ukraine and Russia, death or wounded, but yeah all its all propagada right?

You are either ignorant, or completely and utterly delusional:

(New York Times) Civilians Pay a Price for Gains of Ukraine Forces

(Boston Globe) Civilians blame Ukraine military for deadly blast

(ABC News) 4 Civilians Killed in Artillery Fire in Ukraine

(Wall Street Journal) Ukraine's Gains in East Prove Costly for Towns Caught in Crossfire

(BBC) Ukraine conflict: Russia warning as 'shell hits border town'

All found after 2 minutes of looking at the Google news Ukraine section. No searching required.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Ballistic09

[astral4eg 10]

Some "evil propagandistic kremlin" video:

Triumph Ukrainian Democracy

[surpher 1]

(StopFake.org) Throwing a Wrench In Russia’s Propaganda Machine

In our Watching Russia column, we have been writing analysis of RT’s media coverage. We’ve been focusing on the guests who appear on RT as experts. Who are these people, what is their expertise, and do they have any facts to support their arguments? With each article we have discovered that many guests have little expertise and champion conspiracy theories that are not supported by the facts.

(U.S. Department of State) Russia's Continuing Support for Armed Separatists in Ukraine and Ukraine's Efforts Toward Peace, Unity, and Stability

While Russia says it seeks peace, its actions do not match its rhetoric. We have no evidence that Russia’s support for the separatists has ceased. In fact, we assess that Russia continues to provide them with heavy weapons, other military equipment and financing, and continues to allow militants to enter Ukraine freely. Russia denies this, just as it denied its forces were involved in Crimea -- until after the fact. Russia has refused to call for the separatists to lay down their arms, and continues to mass its troops along the Ukrainian border. Many self-proclaimed “leaders†of the separatists hail from Russia and have ties to the Russian government.

Edited July 15, 2014 by surpher

[negah 26]

(StopFake.org) Throwing a Wrench In Russia’s Propaganda Machine

(U.S. Department of State) Russia's Continuing Support for Armed Separatists in Ukraine and Ukraine's Efforts Toward Peace, Unity, and Stability

Its great to call others conspiracy theorists, at the same time quoting US Govt. claiming they have "proofs" that Russia is an evil empire.

I guess those "proofs" are just as "rock hard" as proofs about Saddam's WMDs.

Lets see:

Russia continues to accumulate significant amounts of equipment at a deployment site in southwest Russia. This equipment includes tanks of a type no longer used by the Russian military, as well as armored vehicles, multiple rocket launchers, artillery, and air defense systems. Russia has roughly doubled the number of tanks, armored vehicles, and rocket launchers at this site. More advanced air defense systems have also arrived at this site.

Do they actually send it to Ukraine? How would you react to a civil war near your borders, when both sides of this war have been repeatedly crossing this border and someone is shelling russian villages near that border and attacking border guards.

We are confident Moscow is mobilizing additional tanks that are no longer in the active Russian military inventory from a depot to send to this same deployment site.

Some people are confident there is a God watching over them, some are confident there is a flying spaghetti monster.

We are concerned much of this equipment will be transferred to separatists, as we are confident Russia has already delivered tanks and multiple rocket launchers to them from this site.

Yet again, where are the documents or pictures actually proving it.

Available information indicates Moscow has recently transferred some Soviet-era tanks and artillery to the separatists and that over the weekend several military vehicles crossed the border.

What kind of information, the kind that started the last Iraq war?

Social media videos of separatist military convoys suggest Russia in the past week alone has probably supplied the militants with at least two-dozen additional armored vehicles and artillery pieces and about as many military trucks.

Or they were taken from the UA army, lets not forget two huge border regions rebelled, there would be a lot of hardware rebels could have seized over time.

And so on...