What is going to happen when Arma 2's content is released? [Problems and solutions]

[progamer 14]

As many of you know, all Arma 2 content is being released so that it can be ported to Arma 3. But this is going to come with a few problems. (This is not a discussion on BI doing an official port.)

Here is a list if the problems that will occur.

1. Hundreds of random ports of varying quality and support, will flood the Arma 3 mods selection.

2. Mods including the same vehicles but each mod has to be downloaded with the vehicles as they do not share them.

3. Hundreds of mods just to play with Arma 2 content.

4. People working against each other for popularity.

5. To use all Arma 2 content, you will have to download many different mods.

6. People's efforts on porting will be wasted when 20 other people do the exact same.

How this problem could be solved:

1. A community effort to port everything together in an expansion pack for Arma 3. This would include making the vehicles work with the new stuff and keeping them realistic.

2. Mods would use this community expansion pack rather than having everyone download the same content of varying quality and support.

3. Quality and support would be consistent.

4. Universal compatibility for other mods to use.

The idea is one central expansion pack for all Arma 2 assets. If someone wants to modify a vehicle or weapon, then it has this Arma 2 expansion pack as a dependency just as though they were modding Arma 2.

Edit: Kju's plan seems best: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?169302-What-is-going-to-happen-when-Arma-2-s-content-is-released-Problems-and-solutions&p=2567321&viewfull=1#post2567321

;2567321']The plan is this:

----

1. Setup several git data repository for everyone to access' date=' get the latest versions and commit their work back to.
   [*']Repositories per vehicle type (cars, tanks, choppers, etc) with all p3ds, model.cfg and maybe also configs.
   
2. Those will be also mirrored by play withSIX network for mass download.
   
3. Single file(s) download is also possible via the repository browser.
   
4. People make changes and commit them back to these central repository to share their improvements.
   
5. Best practice would be to do this as frequent as possible:
   
   1. 
      
   2. to do lots of small iterative improvements.
      
   3. to have good changelog/overview of the changes done.
      
   4. to allow others to benefit from quickly and avoid duplication of work.
      

[*]A thread or even a forum, as well as a public skype group to coordinate the effort somewhat will be helpful.

The license most likely will require for ppl to share the source of their modified data once they do a release at least.

Hopefully people will do share back as soon as possible to let everyone benefit from each other.

People can use the updated models to make actual addons from these or create new content based on these models.

People willing to volunteer/ work on this:

Jafuzz

(If this post is in the wrong place please move it to the correct place.)

Edited November 30, 2013 by ProGamer

[Fragmagnet 3]

Or bohemia could just put it into an official addon that is downloaded along with the game but isn't actually enabled by default and you have to enable it through the main menu addon stuff.

[progamer 14]

Or bohemia could just put it into an official addon that is downloaded along with the game but isn't actually enabled by default and you have to enable it through the main menu addon stuff.

This has already been discussed to death and is not going to happen. Please stay on topic for the thread.

[mr_centipede 31]

Only one thing will happen:

Mod-makers goes crazy

regarding this:

How this problem could be solved:

Are you volunteering to be the project lead?

[JaFuzz 1]

The community I'm in are currently talking to each other about making an ported mod pack for all arma 2 content. Would be happy to work with fellow modders in achieving this.

[progamer 14]

Only one thing will happen:

Mod-makers goes crazy

regarding this:

Are you volunteering to be the project lead?

I could be but there are individuals that are much better suited to the job. This is more so about getting people together to prevent the problems I listed. If someone like kju steps up to be project lead on this, then this thread can be merged into his/her thread.

---------- Post added at 05:25 ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 ----------

The community I'm in are currently talking to each other about making an ported mod pack for all arma 2 content. Would be happy to work with fellow modders in achieving this.

Great to hear! I can add people who are willing to work together to the start of the thread.

Edited November 30, 2013 by ProGamer

[katipo66 94]

Hundreds of random ports of varying quality and support, will flood the Arma 3 mods selection.

I some how dont see a problem in that, also how will a community port actually stop anyone else wanting to put their twist on it.

[progamer 14]

I some how dont see a problem in that, also how will a community port actually stop anyone else wanting to put their twist on it.

Because it will be a group effort and not someone putting a twist on what they like. The idea is for a realistic port. If someone makes it more realistic, then that is fine.

If it's a community effort, then no one is going to abandon the mod and things can be kept at a similar quality level.

[NeuroFunker 11]

i think i get what you mean, and i agree about this.

I think, we need a project similar to Arma2: Cold War Crisis mod. Where devs for exampke, could give the modders support, like it happens with cold war devs. I wish they could get rights to port Chernarus and Takistan later for example. It's better to have 1 big team project, working on so to say Arma 2 on Arma 3 engine mod, then 100's of custom addons, based on arma 2 samples. Ofcourse they can't claim then, the arma 2 assets, are only theirs, and nobody else will use them, but maybe it will be really more usefull, if people with same interrest, bringing arma 2 to arma 3 engine, will group up in a team, and work together, instead everyone for themselves only.

[defk0n_NL 2]

As many of you know, all Arma 2 content is being released so that it can be ported to Arma 3. But this is going to come with a few problems. (This is not a discussion on BI doing an official port.)

Here is a list if the problems that will occur.

1. Hundreds of random ports of varying quality and support, will flood the Arma 3 mods selection.

2. Mods including the same vehicles but each mod has to be downloaded with the vehicles as they do not share them.

3. Hundreds of mods just to play with Arma 2 content.

4. Mods that have the exact same things in them.

5. People working against each other for popularity.

6. To use all Arma 2 content, you will have to download many different mods.

7. People's efforts on porting will be wasted when 20 other people do the exact same.

How this problem could be solved:

1. A community effort to port everything together in an expansion pack for Arma 3. This would include making the vehicles work with the new stuff and keeping them realistic.

2. Mods would use this community expansion pack rather than having everyone download the same content of varying quality and support.

3. Quality and support would be consistent.

4. Universal compatibility for other mods to use.

People willing to volunteer/ work on this:

Jafuzz

(If this post is in the wrong place please move it to the correct place.)

Your posts always make me cringe so hard ProGamer.

nonetheless my response to your alleged problems:

1. Whats bad about this? Let people do their thing.

2. This is individual to each mod. I doubt that people will just copy stock humvees like crazy. There mostly will be derivatives yes but not a bad thing.

3. Why? You can already play with Arma2 content, go ahead. You dont even need AllInArma perse. By release the devs mean i think releasing the models. opening it up etc.

4. see point 2.

5. How is that? Addons are no popularity contest. I think you are confusing addon makers with mission makers.

6. See point 3. (you are just repeating yourself)

7. See point 2 and 4. (Dude...)

I dont see any real problems inside your statements.

Why dont you just say that you are looking for people to join your team in creating new content? Instead of raising pointless arguments and pissing everyone off.

This forum is filled with "idea" guys like yourself. One more sleazier then the other. ugh.

But maybe im wrong. If you try and post concrete examples of the solutions you are posing it would be alot less abstract.

Edited November 30, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[progamer 14]

Your posts always make me cringe so hard ProGamer.

nonetheless my response to your alleged problems:

1. Whats bad about this? Let people do their thing.

2. This is individual to each mod. I doubt that people will just copy stock humvees like crazy. There mostly will be derivatives yes but not a bad thing.

3. Why? You can already play with Arma2 content, go ahead. You dont even need AllInArma perse. By release the devs mean i think releasing the models. opening it up etc.

4. see point 2.

5. How is that? Addons are no popularity contest. I think you are confusing addon makers with mission makers.

6. See point 4 and 2. (you are just repeating yourself)

7. See point 5. (Dude...)

I dont see any real problems inside your statements.

Why dont you just say that you are looking for people to join your team in creating new content? Instead of raising pointless arguments and pissing everyone off.

This forum is filled with "idea" guys like yourself. One more sleazier then the other. ugh.

But maybe im wrong. If you try and post concrete examples of the solutions you are posing it would be alot less abstract.

The only person I have apparently pissed off is you. But this is something for PMs. I fail to see how this is bad. You want to download 20 different mods to get the upgraded Arma 2 content or do you want people too work together? How is this a case if the classic idea guy? I said I would be willing to lead or do work for this, but others could be better suited to that. What examples do you want?

I guess your bandwidth limit is very large?

Edited November 30, 2013 by ProGamer

[defk0n_NL 2]

The only person I have apparently pissed off is you. But this is something for PMs. I fail to see how this is bad. You want to download 20 different mods to get the upgraded Arma 2 content or do you want people too work together? How is this a case if the classic idea guy? I said I would be willing to lead this, but others could be better suited to that. What examples do you want?

I guess your bandwidth limit is very large?

How is my bandwidth limit large, Is that a threat?

It does not really matter what i want, Unless you have BIS themselves actually steering such a effort. Your "idea", spanning the entire community, is a recipe for disaster.

Midway in, Programmer X does not feel the Project Y anymore. Programmer X now forbids you to use any of his content. ttwo of programmer X's friends also leave. Now Project Y has now turned into swiss cheese with everybody fighting over what to do now.

<insert global community collapse here>

Its either have BIS steer such a effort OR allow mod makers to charge money (profit motive, competition).

Communism does not scale.

Edited November 30, 2013 by defk0n_NL

[progamer 14]

How is my bandwidth limit large, Is that a threat?

It does not really matter what i want, Unless you have BIS themselves actually steering such a effort. Your "idea", spanning the entire community lol, is a recipe for disaster.

Midway in, Programmer X does not feel the Project Y anymore. Programmer X now forbids you to use any of his content. ttwo of programmer X's friends also leave. Now Project Y has now turned into swiss cheese with everybody fighting over what to do now.

<insert global community collapse here>

Why can't BI assist? They did with CWC2 and other things. Who says people would get into fights or be allowed to just take everything? Have you been on a modding team or do you know how things work on a team?

Who says the community can't steer it?

[warlord554 2065]

I understand what you mean that it can be annoying seeing the same addons released but I don't think it's a bad thing at all. It can be just as fun modding your own stuff as playing the game :D The fact that we can all mod and upgrade content ourselves is great, and ofcourse everyone has their own style but in the end we all have a choice to either download their content, or not. I say let everyone have fun learning to mod and feeling proud they released addons for all of us to enjoy

[progamer 14]

I understand what you mean that it can be annoying seeing the same addons released but I don't think it's a bad thing at all. It can be just as fun modding your own stuff as playing the game :D The fact that we can all mod and upgrade content ourselves is great, and ofcourse everyone has their own style but in the end we all have a choice to either download their content, or not. I say let everyone have fun learning to mod and feeling proud they released addons for all of us to enjoy

I'm not saying people can't go on their own. I am saying a community effort is a better way to go about things. I also never said new modders can't join in to help out, it wouldn't be some closed project. So learning to mod is copy paste from Arma 2 now?

A content release has never happened on this large a scale for Arma 3 before. Who will want to track down all the individual mods for every asset from Arma 3? Very few players will if any.

---------- Post added at 07:47 ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 ----------

How is my bandwidth limit large, Is that a threat?

It does not really matter what i want, Unless you have BIS themselves actually steering such a effort. Your "idea", spanning the entire community lol, is a recipe for disaster.

Midway in, Programmer X does not feel the Project Y anymore. Programmer X now forbids you to use any of his content. ttwo of programmer X's friends also leave. Now Project Y has now turned into swiss cheese with everybody fighting over what to do now.

<insert global community collapse here>

Its either have BIS steer such a effort OR allow mod makers to charge money (profit motive, competition).

Communism does not scale.

How does communism play into this? No one gets paid to mod to begin with. So any capitalism is better? Look at the US, it's prime example of taking capitalism too far. So I guess all the other mods out their will fail because they are capitalist ideology.

[defk0n_NL 2]

Why can't BI assist? They did with CWC2 and other things. Who says people would get into fights or be allowed to just take everything? Have you been on a modding team or do you know how things work on a team?

Who says the community can't steer it?

There is quite a big difference between TEAM and COMMUNITY

You are proposing a community effort. Its not the same thing as a modding team.

Thats why i said, Why not ask people to join your team in creating content.

[progamer 14]

There is quite a big difference between TEAM and COMMUNITY

You are proposing a community effort. Its not the same thing as a modding team.

Thats why i said, Why not ask people to join your team in creating content.

A modding team would be fine, if you read before I would have liked for someone to step up and do this but no one has. Many people would be insanely more qualified then me like Kju and others. I have never led a modding team before either. I do have the skills to port things, but there are a lot of people who can easily do a better job then I ever could. I also have many real life issues that others don't.

The idea is one central expansion pack for all Arma 2 assets. If someone wants to modify a vehicle or weapon, then it has this Arma 2 expansion pack as a dependency just as though they were modding Arma 2.

[warlord554 2065]

I agree it would be an awesome project if we could all join forces, but we know people don't always get along together and everyone has their own "better" opinion. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see a collaborated effort, but look we can't even agree on just the idea of it haha ;) If we had A2 content then we could modify the mlods and configs for A3 standards, then it would only require a few A2 pbos right? Not sure.

[iceman77 18]

... also how will a community port actually stop anyone else wanting to put their twist on it.

It wont. All's it takes is for one capable person to think "hey, I don't like this. I'll do it my way". I do support the idea of a community project though. I'm sure the mod makers will have fun working together.

[Dwarden 1125]

we been there already

http://web.archive.org/web/20080822094119/http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=61&t=67070

what will happen is explosion of modified content and quality (of all ranges)...

you may try to get some movement going toward less clones and more quality and diversity (e.g. variants of vehicles intead everyone doing the same one)

but that will never prevent multiple people working on one thing, especially if they consider someone else work subpar to theirs etc.

can't take away the freedom of choice, if someone decide to remake m16 just because he want you can't stop him

[-ghost-tf 12]

IMO it is not a big issue really, everyone can and will port whatever he wants, the only thing that would be usefull is at the end when most of the stuff has been ported over that the modmakers work together and merge their content into one big package or atleast faction based packages. Just to save the players from having to use 46 mods to get only the takistani content back ingame :)

[chortles 263]

IMO it is not a big issue really, everyone can and will port whatever he wants

As a community we've been there, done that, we already had two separate M16A4-alone mods during the alpha to prove it, both of which used the ArmA 1 sample model!

[defk0n_NL 2]

we been there already

http://web.archive.org/web/20080822094119/http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=61&t=67070

what will happen is explosion of modified content and quality (of all ranges)...

you may try to get some movement going toward less clones and more quality and diversity (e.g. variants of vehicles intead everyone doing the same one)

but that will never prevent multiple people working on one thing, especially if they consider someone else work subpar to theirs etc.

can't take away the freedom of choice, if someone decide to remake m16 just because he want you can't stop him

Is that bitterness i see dripping through your post?

Lets not forget that the only reason this is even a issue is because there exists no straightforward way to sync mods with missions or multiplayer(s).

You are the ones that forced all the modders into there own little cave seeing there is no way to share anything you make quickly and nobody wants to install dozens of mods by hand.

This pity train is closed for BI Developers.. Sorry <3

[.kju 3245]

The plan is this:

----

1. Setup several git data repository for everyone to access, get the latest versions and commit their work back to.
   
2. Repositories per vehicle type (cars, tanks, choppers, etc) with all p3ds, model.cfg and maybe also configs.
   
3. Those will be also mirrored by play withSIX network for mass download.
   
4. Single file(s) download is also possible via the repository browser.
   
5. People make changes and commit them back to these central repository to share their improvements.
   
6. Best practice would be to do this as frequent as possible:
   
   1. 
      
   2. to do lots of small iterative improvements.
      
   3. to have good changelog/overview of the changes done.
      
   4. to allow others to benefit from quickly and avoid duplication of work.
      

[*]A thread or even a forum, as well as a public skype group to coordinate the effort somewhat will be helpful.

The license most likely will require for ppl to share the source of their modified data once they do a release at least.

Hopefully people will do share back as soon as possible to let everyone benefit from each other.

People can use the updated models to make actual addons from these or create new content based on these models.

[smokedog3para 365]

The buildings trees bushes roads signs rocks clutter need to be in one pack really so the terrains can come over with ease I think it will need a mod team to achieve it, yes I will help out if we can get moving with a mod team.

I am with you kju, but like we see with alot of a1 sample models the source data is not there like the eula says it should be point in question ffaa guys made the terrorista vehicles with the a1 models but no source is available, so I pm the guys that made them a few times to ask for the mlods and nothing comes back breaking the eula for source to be shared.