CiA Petition Letter to BIS and DnA's Response

[ak1287 1]

Apparently, I missed it.

That's actually understandable. I use sarcasm so much, that I generally substitute it for any form of verbal communication. So what I deem as obvious sarcasm really seems like normal speech to everyone else.

[strannix 10]

Hmmm,

Fair enough, however isn't almost everything you listed in the letter achievable in the current ARMA engine via scripting?

- Strannix

[eymerich 11]

Letter to Bohemia Interactive

**Note that the letter was sent to BIS on August 5, 2013, with 67 signatures

Thanks for the reply.

I have appreciated it a lot.

Best wishes and best luck.

Kind regards

Eymerich

Edited September 26, 2013 by Placebo

[gammadust 12]

How is it of "no consequence" to me if enough of the whiners sway the devs. Or were you not referring to the likes of myself. The rest of us will just have to start an anti-petition.

Not following my own advice unfortunately... let me put it another way: it is of as much consequence to you as any other feedback. I kept it generalized since the derrailing of the thread came from both "camps", there was a pointless exchange offtopic (out of object of feedback and response). If you think the only way for Bohemia to keep you satisfied is countering the petition/letter/feedback/organized-opinion, just do it. You must choose to trust Bohemia to make the right decision either way, if nothing else because it is their prerrogative alone. It's if like assuming Bohemia is childish in their decision process in regards to satisfying their customer base (veteran, current and future) otherwise.

[dale0404 5]

This 100%. I bitch and criticize quite a bit about performance issue's and certain functionalities that should be in the vanilla game and not need to be modded in by modders. It's not because I hate the game, or hate the developers, but because I want the game to be the best it can be. If I hated the game I would just uninstall and move on and not say a word. Instead I want to share opinions and idea's, hopefully with the developers, to hopefully make the game a better experience.

By now the devs and the forum moderators know the difference between the haters / trolls etc and people actually trying to deliver constructive criticism in whatever manor they choose (within reason).

rfxcasey, I might agree with you if they hadn't included what is claimed to be DnA's response that was sent and received today... though much of it, frankly, restates a bunch of official statements and dev comments alike while being "diplomatically neutral" as to the exact details of nature of the specific "internal vision of Arma" (not least since that may not be universal among the devs ;) ) as well as just what he meant be "where the project was headed a year ago".

Speculation or based on fact?

[bad benson 1733]

very entertaining thread. shows exactly what's wrong with this forum, actually all game forums, actually the world :p.

at least there is an answer by a dev. compensates for all the nonsense with some vague information. it proves my theory that the current state of the "medical system" is not deliberate design but "caused" by circumstances.

We appreciate your unwavering support, and hope you will stick around to witness the Arma 3 platform mature. There are many great things to come!

can't wait for release! :p

just kidding. if time will bring quality additions and not just fixing of glaring issues, then i can wait.

By now the devs and the forum moderators know the difference between the haters / trolls etc and people actually trying to deliver constructive criticism in whatever manor they choose (within reason).

i wish some people would trust the mods with that. nothing more tedious than having to explain his own prejudice to a person. impossible in some cases.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Bad Benson

[chortles 263]

It's speculation of course due to DnA's (understandable) ambiguity and vagueness.

[max power 21]

very entertaining thread. shows exactly what's wrong with this forum

Yep.

[froggyluv 2136]

Well done -clear concise letter without any histrionics and I generally agree with all of their points.

To my knowledge, no non-scripted technologies or features have been removed from Real Virtuality and our approach has been to keep script and configuration hooks in place for mods

What about movement inertia? That's considered engine side technology and not a script isn't it?

[icewindo 29]

A "bit" harsh? a post full of swear words expressing what the open letter did as well - opinion. We're all entitled to it. I'm tired of people resorting to insults and swear words just because they have a different opinion.

Just nice to see something is not done the way it was done in the past. Particulary interesting, if you take a look at "this other thread". I'm not allowed to be more specific.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Icewindo

[MavericK96 0]

very entertaining thread. shows exactly what's wrong with this forum, actually all game forums, actually the world :p.

No kidding...some of the fanboyism is hitting trolling levels on this forum.

Glad to see that DnA replied. I signed the letter because I share in many of the same concerns, and I still have faith in BIS to keep working on the game post-release as well.

Obviously the letter doesn't represent the "entire community", but I personally have been a BIS fan/player since OFP release, and I know many others that signed the letter have as well.

[icebreakr 3159]

I've signed the letter because the current state of A3 reminds me of Soldner fiasco years ago. A game promising so much ended littered with missing features and ridden with bugs. Just see the dev report. Just see the issues -> http://feedback.arma3.com/view_all_bug_page.php

Missing furniture is a whole new thing for armaverse. It is just not missing p3ds from previous games (I got it in the past, DVDs hold only so much content... now we have Steam), but proxies not being done for new buildings that mapmakers waited for so long is a different matter.

Further details on my decision not to "jump on the bandwagon" are written on my website, latest news entry. I took a long though and I (probably) won't be doing any of my work conversions for A3 and I certainly don't allow use of any of the content I've released in a new game called "Arma 3".

A3 imho lacks a lot in the current state. Sure, I will play couple of hours with my squad buddies, but we are still home at A2/ACE. And nope, AiA project just doesn't convince me to continue my work. A lot of fixes need to be incorporated in current release, I will see in couple of months how the progress goes. Until then, no work on my side - futuristic approach with limited realism is just not my cup of tea. Sure its fun sometimes (like Alien/Pred missions) but not all the time, if you know what I mean.

And as rfxcasey said in the first reply: "Boo freaking Hoo......Cry me a river"... I shall refrain from the further posts not to hurt the "new" community =)

Edited September 26, 2013 by IceBreakr

[Harbinger2456 10]

No kidding...some of the fanboyism is hitting trolling levels on this forum.

Lol, oh I'd say its way past that, into hysterics in some threads.

[noubernou 77]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet...

One issue defines my problem with the direction A3 has gone in.

You can't march at a realistic pace. You are either jogging, or you are "swag" walking (or worse "swag" running).

[Smurf 12]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet...

One issue defines my problem with the direction A3 has gone in.

You can't march at a realistic pace. You are either jogging, or you are "swag" walking (or worse "swag" running).

Can be a really nice analogy!

Funny enough, the one speed above walk you can switch between "swag" and "army"; simple fix\tweak = much better.

[Harbinger2456 10]

I personaly think that the reason why the community is not all WOW with Arma 3 is really easy to explain.

Operation flashpoint was a brand new genre... WOW

Arma was not a new genre, but the engine was impressive for that period... wow

Arma 2 extracted the last few drops of originality, and the engine started to show ages comparing to all the shinny new engines around... fun

Arma 3 is plain outdated. There is nothing there that will light up a new fire, because there is nothing really new ... delivered on an outdated engine.not bad

Do not get me wrong I still like the game, but I do not really feel like the game is up to the actual era ... Offering an ok, but blend satisfaction.

Arma 4 will need to be on a new engine from scratch. An engine not offering strong physics, a fully destructible environment and an AI that cannot find their walking path efficiently will not make anyone speechless in front of their computer in 2013. Plain simple: We got a simulation based on an outdated engine, offering not much new ...reason why people are not so excited about it.

Just saw this in a closed thread. I think this says it all.

[max power 21]

Enough 'fanboy' bashing, or any other kind of bashing. There has been a lot of hysterics from all camps on the forum. If you want to bash, troll, abuse other users, derail the topic, or spam, there will be no tolerance in this thread.

DnA received the letter well, and was kind enough to permit his response be reproduced here. If I'm not seeing a display of class that fits this gesture, users will lose their permissions to participate in this thread. Keep your comments on topic.

[-=seany=- 5]

It really enjoyed reading the reply and found it interesting, thanks DnA

I would also like to spin things around a little and draw some attention to what I consider to be big improvements, a few of which rather hardcore. The vast options and control over stances are undeniably more advanced than pretty much any other shooter out there. Under-the-hood improvements to ballistical simulation, explosives, material penetration and artillery munitions are in the game, but less visible. More options in inventory management, backpacks and accessories provide more tools during combat. The radio protocol is a massive step forwards in direct comparison with Arma 2’s. Our approach to a simulated Artificial Intelligence is always going to be hard to perfect - given that we want to refrain from cheating as much as possible. However, recent work on Close Quarter Combat really takes AI reactions forward. And besides gameplay, the video options have seen improvements in terms of e.g. often requested post-processing settings, a frame rate indicator and better auto-detection.

As much as we (I) do give out about some things/missing features / poor quality initial content etc. I do really, really appreciate the things listed above. It's good to read and acknowledge them once a while to remind your self of the great new things we have been given/have been improved.

[MavericK96 0]

Yeah, no doubt there have been some massive improvements in a lot of areas...the smoothness of movement alone is miles beyond ArmA 2. I can't wait to get started playing ArmA 3 more regularly, but it seems like it has a ways to go before it's widely accepted by the community (from what I can surmise, anyway). ArmA 2 just has such a massive amount of content, both official and community.

[Pac Man 10]

a bit harsh, but i agree partially. Sending a letter, signed by 67 people, representing whole community? Doesn't sound all to fair to me, maybe i wished to ask a few question in the latter/would dissagree with some questions? Maybe my comparison is wrong, but thats like electing a president, just by collecting 67 votes, from whole country.

Don't get me wrong thought, not being jealios or something, but imagine, if every small community or even single forum member, starts sending their letters to BIS, that won't be good.

While the author didn't technically say "the whole community", he did dramatically emphasis in bold red letters as if 67 people were a good majority or spoke for everyone.

I find the complaints un-needed since most can be avoided. I mean, if people are such hard core milsim elitist role players, then play the game as such. Don't like that you can carry so much? Then don't. Find yourself "cheating" in this regard? Then you can even write a function to limit the amount you could carry. Don't like the medical system? Take FAKs out & also there's already revive / bleedout / body drag frameworks available. I like realism too, but I know how to work around what I don't like. It's all very trivial.

As said before by others, there seems to be this rampant fear that someone else may not be forced to play the game the way you think it should be. The fear that other people just may be enjoying themselves. The fear that others just may utilize these changes instead of trying to revert back to the way things used to be.

Also, all of this hub-bub about realism, yet the vanilla Arma2 first aid modules will make it all better? What's realistic about getting dragged and/or revived more than once or at all for that matter? Usually when someone gets shot in the head, they're past the state of unconsciousness. They're dead. There is no revive. If you guys are so hardcore, then lets laugh at any respawn or revive. :) Heck, lets write a script that allows for 95% failed revives. Where only 5 % of the time can a revive be successful, like in real life. That'd be fun eh?

Kind Regards,

Pac Man

Edited September 26, 2013 by Pac Man

[katipo66 94]

We originally set out to bring them forward in big ways (e.g. combat medicine). But we failed to finish some of these systems, deadlines and resources caught up with us, and we had to dial down the ambitions for the initial release. For our team, the September 12th release did not mean we could rest, as one normally would. We are still working terribly hard on tweaking, fixing, balancing and gathering everyone’s wishes for future plans. Some of the specific issues you highlight have actually already been worked on since your letter was sent, and work on them is still on-going.

You guys are awesome and i love the game with its few warts and all... can only see the potential.. hopefully eventually all the "things" will get tweaked to satisfy everyones needs.

[dayglow 2]

Further details on my decision not to "jump on the bandwagon" are written on my website, latest news entry. I took a long though and I (probably) won't be doing any of my work conversions for A3 and I certainly don't allow use of any of the content I've released in a new game called "Arma 3".

See I just don't understand this attitude. I understand you won't want to spend your own time to create mods for A3 since you don't enjoy it, but if someone comes along and asks permission to convert your content over with full credit to you, what is the harm in that?

It seems to be pure spite. You seem to feel the need to 'punish' BI and anyone that would wish to use your content. What do you gain from this? Part if creating content is that you enjoy others using what you create. Why not let them enjoy it in A3 even if you don't?

[windies 11]

See I just don't understand this attitude. I understand you won't want to spend your own time to create mods for A3 since you don't enjoy it, but if someone comes along and asks permission to convert your content over with full credit to you, what is the harm in that?

It seems to be pure spite. You seem to feel the need to 'punish' BI and anyone that would wish to use your content. What do you gain from this? Part if creating content is that you enjoy others using what you create. Why not let them enjoy it in A3 even if you don't?

It's his work irregardless and his to do with as he pleases.

[dayglow 2]

It's his work irregardless and his to do with as he pleases.

Yes and I can express my opinion on his statement.

[MavericK96 0]

I find the complaints un-needed since most can be avoided. I mean, if people are such hard core milsim elitist role players, then play the game as such.

Clearly you don't know anything about the community you are referring to (CiA).