European Union (Fictional - ArmA III Setting)

[slatts 1978]

A Mowag Piranha 4 or 5 would be a great choice for a European wheeled APC.

[mistyronin 1181]

A Mowag Piranha 4 or 5 would be a great choice for a European wheeled APC.

Though it could be an interesting and nice addition, the Patria is already in game.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Hello everyone!

Not an ArmA player (OFP for life!), but futuristic setting of A3, and theme of this developing mod, have caught mine attention. So first I'd like to say that I'm full of amazement, and admiration, to the author who's got no experience with RV engine modding - this is really ambitious project!

It's also more difficult because of odd choices of BIS when it comes to the story line, and game's universe. Europe 2035 by BIS is a theater of war between US forces and Iran, and their allies. However BIS decided that some of the real-life NATO countries are under Russian influence - even if NATO uses their equipment, like in Finland case (AMV as NATO APC). It's not only one of such problems: see CZ Scorpion SMG used by OpFor (while Czech Republic is NATO ally in A3 story). That makes it really hard to imagine and equip another faction which will fit in this universe.

OK, enough of talking: here are my propositions for Eurocorps (that name is really nice) equipment and armament.

Small arms:

- P07 pistol (already in-game)

- CZ Scorpion (already in-game, however it's used by OpFor)

- 6.5mm G36 - that's great idea: modular (LMG and DMR variants), used by many European countries, just remember to add that "tactical-modern-rails-all-over-and-magpuls" touch ;)

- Mk20 (already in-game) - may be used by SF, or vehicle crews

- for GPMG I'd go with some kind of mix between FN MAG, HK121 (that one looks almost like modernised MAG) with HK MG4 rail/optic (it's similar to G36 sight), 7.62 chambering preferred

- sniper rifle should be bolt-action, maybe Steyr SSG04A1?

- Gepard Lynx as anti-material rifle (already in-game).

Ground vehicles:

- Strider/Fennek (already in-game)

- AMV-look-alike as IFV (already in-game, but modular design of AMV can justify different variants)

- Leo 2A7-inspired MBT (it may, or may not be an exact copy)

- SPAAG variant of above tank

Air vehicles:

- here I'd go with more fiction: light, medium and attack helicopter should be mixed from Eurocopter and Agusta products (like Mangusta cross with Tiger)

- and F-35 as a fighter (already in-game, and it seems to be the future aircraft of many European countries).

This list may go on: other guys already posted different propositions, so You'll have enough food for thought!

Good luck!

[viking (dk) 10]

I like the idea of a future EU army fictiv mod..

My list of what i think could be cool :)

Men/Uniform:

Go with the Multicamo (more and more country's getting them, and they fit perfect for altis)

Weapons:

1. HK416 and HK417 and for sidearm i think the AAF pistol (STI i think) or a Glock would do it :)

2. Lsat for a support/MG weapon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSAT_light_machine_gun

3. SAKO TRG 42 as a sniper rifle - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Sako_TRG_folding_stock_%2B_Zeiss_3-12x56_SSG_P.JPG

4. Carl Gustav as AT

Land Vehicles:

1. Mercedes G or Land Rover for a light car

2. Mowag Eagle 4 For a heavy car (with and without weapon) or the IVECO LMV (same with the weapon) - http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8szHF6rfAg12gOeBtDXuwOfO1690DH8s6i2feIAwmCHDwTLw8Q3xzC-YGzA - http://www.military-today.com/trucks/iveco_lmv.htm

3. MAN trucks for transporting troops - http://www.armyrecognition.com/?Itemid=31&option=com_ebygallery&limitstart=20&pic=man_truck_hx_18330_4x4_army_recognition_eurosatory_2008_001.jpg&path=Eurosatory_2008&task=show

4. MAN armoured trucks for duty work, like ammo, fuel repair etc - http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2010_army_military_defense_industry_news/first_multi_a4_fsa_from_rheinmetall_man_military_vehicles_transferred_to_german_military.html

5. MOWAG Duro IIIP for a Ambulance (well i like it) http://danskpanser.dk/Hjulkoretojer/DuroIIIP.htm

6. Maybe a SUPACAT for special forces - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Supacat_Jackal.jpg

7. Piranha for armoured troop transport

8. CV9035 or never for a Tracked amoured troop transport - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/CV9035_assessment_(cropped).jpg

9. Leopard 2A6 for a MBT

10. Leopard UNDER part for a utility/repair vehicle

11. Archer or Ceasar for the Artillery

Air:

1. F-35 and/or Eurofighter

2. A400M for a transport/para plane

3. Eurocopter

4. BO105 for a light scout heli (one armed with gatlin and one with sitting on the sides)

5. NH90 or even better the AW101

Sea:

A patrole wessel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P570_Knud_Rasmussen.jpg

A Frigate - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:L16_HDMS_Absalon_-_20070902.jpg

A Special forces RIB - http://goldfishboat.com/images/made/uploads/news/Skjermbilde_2012-12-04_kl._13.15.25_1000_550_s_c1.png

A Rescue boat - http://cdn1.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/migration_catalog/article28992748.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/N+Ireland+News+5-1.jpg

Well thats for now, maybe i come up with more :)

[granQ 293]

if you want something in air that flies (and not just sit in hangars due to costs, F35 looking at you ;) ) its the JAS 39 Gripen.. Sweden, Czech, Hungary, soon hopefully Swiss and a few more countries (Finland perhaps?).

[Ezcoo 47]

if you want something in air that flies (and not just sit in hangars due to costs, F35 looking at you ;) ) its the JAS 39 Gripen.. Sweden, Czech, Hungary, soon hopefully Swiss and a few more countries (Finland perhaps?).

+1 for Gripen

(tacticool vid btw ;))

Especially the advanced radars and data links impressed me, I'm not an expert but I'd imagine that those make a difference on the battlefield.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Ezcoo

[jinzor 31]

Guys, thanks for all the info/ideas/suggestions, I haven't forgotten about the mod and will be working on it after the next 2 weeks. Right now I've been working on a university project that requires my complete focus. Once that's done, I'll get started on the mod.

[Degman 73]

Are you going to include Croatian Armed Forces ? I am asking because me and my friend Minoza are working on it currently, so I was thinking if we can put it in your Euro Forces mod (?). Perhaps I can help creating serbian, montenegro and our neighbourd armies (units only), because I have expirience with retexturing, config (middle) and similar. For now I will stick with our [CRO AF (with vehicles, weapons, equipment etc.)] mod and finish it, so then, if you agree, we can put it in EF mod. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

I haven't forgotten about the mod and will be working on it after the next 2 weeks. Right now I've been working on a university project that requires my complete focus. Once that's done, I'll get started on the mod.

First things first, and the university is way more important than a game, so don't worry we will wait patiently ( at least I will ).

BTW I also think that the svenska Gripen would be a nice addition.

Are you going to include Croatian Armed Forces ? I am asking because me and my friend Minoza are working on it currently, so I was thinking if we can put it in your Euro Forces mod (?).

DegmanCRO, Jinzor was planning to do an European Union army. So some croatian vehicles could fit ( as Croatia is the last addition to the Union ), but Serbia and Montenegro are still candidates ( and we will see what's gonna happen ).

[disco.modder 116]

Great to see all the European mods assets unified into one mod. Cant wait to try this out, all the best guys!

[Vestly 10]

Hi , just few ideas:

1. There should be more tanks (because there are more armies). Maybe Leclerc , Chally 2 and modernized T-72 (T-90 , T-95 whatever) for easter countries so it will be more realistic .

2. I would choose hk-416 as a main rifle , but it is just my opinion.

3. more type of uniforms with eurocorps flag on it . I dont think , that there should be for example French flag or German flag , because there are too much nations and I dont think , that you will make uniform with for example Poland flag or Slovak flag.

PS : That video is just hilarious. Gripen wouldnt stand a change against Su-35 . I hate propagandistic videos like these , because thanks to them , we have a lots of "weapon experts" on the internet :j:

[PantherAl 11]

My theory is that it's because the half forced on treaty they signed with the USSR. Hence why they also use much of former PACT equipment blended with a few domestically designed stuffz as well as Swedish stuff and only recently taken to use NATO things like those F 18s and Leo 2a4s (both post Cold War procurements)... However they can switch out PACT designed vehicles today without much debacle. (although some are quite good traversing the northern parts of the country MT-LB's per example, as Swedes also taken to use). Any way, switching out the main rifle cartridge is just silly, Enourmus cost for honestly low gain. They probably rather stay with their current caliber. Everyone knows it works, there's plenty of it, and there's otherwise no really good argument for doing so as far as I can see.

Besides that, I doubt that Finland really wants to get to comfy with Russia today. Back in the CW they weren't exactly best palls, nor were they puppets (although, there's no doubt that USSR would have ROFL stomped Soumi conventionally no matter how much Sisu they have.) The treaty they signed speciffically pointed out that Finland was free to defend itself from any invasionist force (including USSR) But they were obliged to halt any "Offensive operation towards the USSR through Finnish terretory by Germany and/or it's allies" (Fun considering that the USSR were allied to the DDR :confused:)

As for that "you know what they say about us (swedes) in Finland. YA thanks WE know! (We're with the French in "being picked on" for "Being cowards" but we suffer even more because WE actually HAD a Tank that COULD drive as fast forward as it could reverse...(with a rear facing driver too)) BUT, then again, as is the case about France, there's a lot of things to consider but it's so much easier to just call us Rats and poke us.. :cool: (I mean Ruotsi and Rats see the connection?:p)

Anyway on the subject of EU armed forces.. How about the CV 90? IIRC it's the European designed and manufactured -tracked- IFV that is used by most countries in the EU, Doesn't have to be the 40mm version though. Leopard 2(variant) is given as MBT. I do however wonder what a good AA system could be? Gepard? Realizing of course that these things are a bit further down the production line.

I'd also want to wish the project luck..

I'd kill for a seperate CV90 pack that included all the actual and proposed varients. I *love* that thing. :) I'll agree on the MTLB though: Just because most soviet stuff wasn't the greatest doesn't mean that they didn't have a winner now and then, and that track is most assuredly a winner.

[zervostyrd 10]

Hi , just few ideas:

1. There should be more tanks (because there are more armies). Maybe Leclerc , Chally 2 and modernized T-72 (T-90 , T-95 whatever) for easter countries so it will be more realistic .

2. I would choose hk-416 as a main rifle , but it is just my opinion.

3. more type of uniforms with eurocorps flag on it . I dont think , that there should be for example French flag or German flag , because there are too much nations and I dont think , that you will make uniform with for example Poland flag or Slovak flag.

PS : That video is just hilarious. Gripen wouldnt stand a change against Su-35 . I hate propagandistic videos like these , because thanks to them , we have a lots of "weapon experts" on the internet :j:

1: While a T72 mordernization would be "Realistic" (Since there is quite a few countries in EU using them) There would be 2 problems in my mind; 1st one is "What model to chose", although this problem is present with the (IMO) most prominent contender, Leopard 2, The issue is remedied somewhat due to the original Leopard 2 creator is an EU country (as is not the case with the base T 72), and that the common L44 Leopard 2 variants doesn't really differ alot visualy (well the 2A4 is a bit "old" nowadays so). The second problem is what I was previously going on about, It's not an original European Design. It was meant to meet Soviet deamands, and the current users was more or less left with the choice of either buying the T 72 or stick with their T 55s, or develop one of their own (which wouldn't be highly endorsed by the USSR, nor would the economies of the other eastern bloc nations defend the that.)

But if the Author would find the time or are given permission to use someone elses (mordernized) T 72 model, I'm not agaisnt it per se.

3: The easiest way to go about it is simply by having each and all soldiers having an European star roundel on the shoulder, nobody can really cry then...

Note on the Gripen vid. People are uneducated, and never bother reading the comments on Youtube since nobody really have any idea what they are talking about and trying to educate them is like teaching a Penguin how to fly... Anyway, Source on Su 35 being so superior to the Gripen? IIRC there's never been a real test, and saying such a thing is.. Well... Uneducated, since no one knows how a (real) Fight between any modern day Aircraft would end.

It's like arguing wheter an Imperial Stardestroyer (Star Wars) would win VS the "Daedalus" (StargÅte With an å for som reason...) in a one on one fight...

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

3: The easiest way to go about it is simply by having each and all soldiers having an European star roundel on the shoulder, nobody can really cry then....

... mabe except those who value realism? The Eurocorps does not have standardized uniforms. All soldiers wear their own national uniforms with their own national flags. Those assigned to the Eurocorps add a Eurocrps patch and they wear the same blue beret. Here's a picture taken from Wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Eurocorps_prise_d%27armes_Strasbourg_31_janvier_2013_35.JPG Will this change by 2035? Pure speculation, of course, but I cannot imagine that any Army in the world will give up their symbols of patriotism.

But of course ArmA is just a game and shouldn't be taken too seriously. If it makes sense to create a plethora of weapons and vehicles but only one uniform, so be it. As a player who sometimes joins international matches I just want to say I would really like to participate in a match where all players wear their typical uniforms. This would add a lot to the immersion and perhaps also to the gameplay because you do want to avoid friendly fire. Of course I also understand the amount of work and if a project is to big it might never be finished. In the end the modders will have to decide howw much time and effort they can put into this project. I am following this thread with great interest.

[applejaxc 10]

Well if you want to REALLY get creative, regarding the "DO I make them a unified body?" question, what you could do is have 2 factions that work together but are at-odds with one-another. Examples would be the European superpowers (France, England, etc) start arming themselves with H&K/etc weapons and decide to model their joint military in one fashion while the smaller nations (Poland, Sweden, Belgium, etc) get pissed in the years leading to 2035 for not being represented in the EU very well, and decide to wriggle as much lee-way in the corps as possible. They use 7.62/5.45/Russian-inspired weapons because they don't want to use the rest of the corps' weapons and can't afford to innovate or go in another, more expensive route. While the superpowers section of the corps uses small 4-man squads and tight, 16-man platoons the other faction (again, inspired by Russia) supports a more conglomerated, "EVERYONE SHOOT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!" structure. The conflict of interests leads to some of these small countries to band together and eventually you make a campaign in which there's a European war...?

[jinzor 31]

... mabe except those who value realism? The Eurocorps does not have standardized uniforms. All soldiers wear their own national uniforms with their own national flags. Those assigned to the Eurocorps add a Eurocrps patch and they wear the same blue beret. Here's a picture taken from Wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Eurocorps_prise_d%27armes_Strasbourg_31_janvier_2013_35.JPG Will this change by 2035? Pure speculation, of course, but I cannot imagine that any Army in the world will give up their symbols of patriotism.

But of course ArmA is just a game and shouldn't be taken too seriously. If it makes sense to create a plethora of weapons and vehicles but only one uniform, so be it. As a player who sometimes joins international matches I just want to say I would really like to participate in a match where all players wear their typical uniforms. This would add a lot to the immersion and perhaps also to the gameplay because you do want to avoid friendly fire. Of course I also understand the amount of work and if a project is to big it might never be finished. In the end the modders will have to decide howw much time and effort they can put into this project. I am following this thread with great interest.

I'm still working on my university stuff for 5th November (then I am half free, half not free. I can spend half of my time doing the mod then), but I will answer this one right now; I won't make lots of camouflage variations for specific EU countries' soldiers or vehicles for this European Union Army mod for realism. My vision for the mod isn't really to be entirely realistic, it's to create another power-bloc in ArmA III's fictional universe (like CSAT) by creating a fictional, near-future, European force, which is an evolution of European Union organisations such as the Eurocorps, but not the same. I'm thinking about naming them simply "European Union Military (EUROM)", separated into different branches with their own, new, unique symbols (fictional (e.g. a European Air Force roundel does not exist, but it will be present on EURAF aircraft in the mod etc); "European Union Air Force (EURAF)", "European Union Army (EURA)" and "European Union Navy (EURN)" (the letter "R" is put into the acronyms to hint at that new "EURO" tradition the European Union are trying to inject into the culture of Europe (you see a lot of "euro" stuff labelled everywhere if it's related to the European Union (e.g. Euro (currency), Eurocorps, Eurostar, etc). It's mainly just to make it easier to say quickly for voice actors (if I get around to making a mission/campaign) rather than say each and every individual letter (e.g. "yur-ohm", "yur-raff", "yur-ah", "yearn")). One thing I will say with certainty is that the badge used to represent the country of a soldier will be exactly how Zervostyrd described above: "3: The easiest way to go about it is simply by having each and all soldiers having an European star roundel on the shoulder, nobody can really cry then..."

Basically, I imagine that the European Union, by 2035, in ArmA III's universe, still has not federated yet as it is a long, vigorous process. However, it is closer to achieving that goal than it is in comparison to today, hence the faction presented in this mod which signifies its union is stronger in that it actually has a proper, strong military. A military that directly answers to it, with standard issue gear/weapons, with commonly used vehicles, with its own camouflages, with its own chain of command separate to the countries that make up the EU etc (all of this stuff has to be near-futuristic as well; the current versions of our weapons/vehicles won't be around forever, this is the year 2035 we're talking about here. There are going to be advancements in technology and things are going to get replaced. One example of this is the way the EU infantry in my mod will be equipped; like the NATO and CSAT soldiers, which use a lot of electronics on their gear, the EU infantry's look will be based on the French FELIN project's gear (minus the FAMAS and maybe camouflage)). This has mainly been influenced by recent events in the East and increasing popular opinion in the USA to leave Europe to focus on the Pacific theatre (as said on ArmA III's description of world affairs at the time).

However, this force, in comparison to the individual EU countries' forces, is smaller (I don't mean small as in the current Eurocorps, this is a proper military) than some of the biggest EU countries' militaries (e.g. Germany; each country in the EU still has its own military for their own uses, but are hinted at slowly, over time, merging. The first step is the founding of the European Union Military and its branches). This is because, within the fictional timeline, the organisation(s) has/have been set up recently (not long after the recent war near Turkey in ArmA III's story, so it's very young, and it's eager to prove itself to be, while small, a force to be reckoned with).

Since the ArmA III campaign hasn't been released yet, I don't know how the EU faction could fit in a scenario set on Altis/Stratis which could potentially be seen as canon to the Armaverse, so I'm going to wait with the backstory/campaign stuff and just focus on the units, weapons, voices etc first. But, those are basically the ideas I've got rolling around in my head for it. Even though I don't want to make a 100% realistic attempt at doing this (otherwise it'd be boring and might as well go and make a mod set in the present day), I do want to do it with some degree of believability, hence why I asked for as much information surrounding the issue as possible and asking those questions on the first post.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Jinzor

[Degman 73]

Croatia is one of the smallest NATO countries, but we still use HK, G-36, M-249, MG-4, etc; as well as EURO-NATO-looking modern soldier equipment (home-made) and similar. Our "connections to Russia" and only D-30 howitzer (soon to be replaced with PzH-2000), modernized T-72 tanks (M-84D & M-84A4 Snajper - in future it will be probably replaced with Leopards), modernized MiGs-21 (in 2019. it will be replaced with Grippens, F-16 or Typhoons), 9K38 IGLA and few other things I forgot. Our tactics and strategy are modern and functional, we have influence in world-wide NATO & UN operations and similar. (...) My point is that it doesn't matter if country is small, but how it works. Everywhere it is different. So by your thinking we have "EVERYONE SHOT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!" structure just because we are still using some of russian weaponry and we are small country. That crap about Poland, Sweden and Belgium is also not very intelligent - have you ever seen them fighting ? No! If they are not using everything same as Euro Corps and NATO, it doesn't mean they are not functional armies.

I think that you should use everything authentic for every country in that mod if you have the models already, but replace some country's weapons by other NATO weaps if you dont. End of the story.

[Vestly 10]

Note on the Gripen vid. People are uneducated, and never bother reading the comments on Youtube since nobody really have any idea what they are talking about and trying to educate them is like teaching a Penguin how to fly... Anyway, Source on Su 35 being so superior to the Gripen? IIRC there's never been a real test, and saying such a thing is.. Well... Uneducated, since no one knows how a (real) Fight between any modern day Aircraft would end.

It's like arguing wheter an Imperial Stardestroyer (Star Wars) would win VS the "Daedalus" (StargÅte With an å for som reason...) in a one on one fight...

It isnt the same. We can use your theory : Mig-15 vs F-22. There was never a real test and they werent in a fight , so we dont know , which aircraft is better. Or we can simply use informations , which we can find on internet. For example , Su-35 has superior radar , higher speed , bigger range , better maneuverability (they can dodge the missile - they tested it) , etc. So , we can theretically say , that Su-35 is superior.

[mistyronin 1181]

DegmanCRO, I think you missed Jinzor point which is to create a common army of the EU ( with all the countries sending troops in a same structrure ); which has been discussed and already started in real life at low scale creating partnership in weapons industry and development ( Eurocopter Tiger, A400M, etc. ), joint training, and even common hierarchy.

So its a valid hipotesis that in the future years that could grow to make some kind of full fledged army feeded by all the Union, using the same uniform and weaponry. Acting as a block.

We all know that one of the main goals of EU is to be considered a solid block in foreign and commercial affairs ( because united we have more power, get better deals and deter possible agressors).

Obviously I think that european technology should prevail in it over soviet

[Degman 73]

I know what was his point, but he did said that Poland, Sweden, Belgium and smaller countries has shitty tactics and weapons, which isn't true. I just said these are not like he imagines it. Also, if mod creators are going to make same uniforms, equipment and weapons for everyone - then make it Euro Corps international BRIGADES only, not whole armies in it .. so every European Union's country will have one EUC brigade for world-wide missions & operations.

[jinzor 31]

I know what was his point, but he did said that Poland, Sweden, Belgium and smaller countries has shitty tactics and weapons, which isn't true.

What?! I didn't say that at all. You're talking about Applejaxc's comment on page #9.

Also, if mod creators are going to make same uniforms, equipment and weapons for everyone - then make it Euro Corps international BRIGADES only, not whole armies in it .. so every European Union's country will have one EUC brigade for world-wide missions & operations.

No, I won't be doing that. I am trying to create a fictional faction, sort of like CSAT currently in ArmA III but European, not the Eurocorps with lots of separate camouflages, badges, equipment, vehicles, weapons and gear (that would take far too long). If Bohemia Interactive are allowed to create a fictional, unbelievable faction like CSAT (a large alliance between China, India and Iran fighting for a common goal and a single currency), then so can I. This is 22 years into the future, not like 2 or 3 years, who knows what will happen by then.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Jinzor

[mistyronin 1181]

If Bohemia Interactive are allowed to create a fictional, unbelievable faction like CSAT (a large alliance between China, India and Iran fighting for a common goal and a single currency), then so can I. This is 22 years into the future, not like 2 or 3 years, who knows what will happen by then.

Jinzor its your time and work, that you give for free. Do what you think its best :)

[Degman 73]

What?! I didn't say that at all. You're talking about Applejaxc's comment on page #9.

Yes, I am. I never said it was you.

No, I won't be doing that. I am trying to create a fictional faction, sort of like CSAT currently in ArmA III but European, not the Eurocorps with lots of separate camouflages, badges, equipment, vehicles, weapons and gear (that would take far too long). If Bohemia Interactive are allowed to create a fictional, unbelievable faction like CSAT (a large alliance between China, India and Iran fighting for a common goal and a single currency), then so can I. This is 22 years into the future, not like 2 or 3 years, who knows what will happen by then.

No, no, no. What I meant by that was not to make different camouflages and etc; but to make every EU country have that EUC brigade in it's army. All the EUC brigades (doesnt matter if it is Croatia, France, Germany, etc) are wearing same uniforms, they have same weapons as well as equipment and other - but they must have customizable flags on their arms.

[NeuroFunker 11]

what about Russia? I thought it's europa as well?

[barakokula31 10]

what about Russia? I thought it's europa as well?

Only a small part of it is in Europe. I doubt they'll join the EU.