Is the game dumbed down?

[metalcraze 290]

The thing that I really love is the movement. It's more fluid. Makes CQC interesting for once. It's not to fluid and not to stiff. The only bad thing is the grenade throw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMMA7djguU

Such a great thing there are no turn speed limits. Amazing improvement Smookie & Co.

Edited September 13, 2013 by metalcraze

[chortles 263]

The thing that I really love is the movement. It's more fluid. Makes CQC interesting for once. It's not to fluid and not to stiff. The only bad thing is the grenade throw.

Ehhh, the grenade throwing is a known "yeah, this isn't yet how the creative director wants it", so it's not like the grenades were swept under the carpet as "working as intended", but rather I suspect that (among many other things) revising grenade throwing was just deemed too low priority to warrant revision before September 12.

As far as infantry movement for small arms... at this point, it's one of THE word-of-mouth selling points for Arma 3 by forums users on non-BI forums' Arma 3 threads! Hell, some of that "this Arma is good and you should buy it because of the infantry movement" is along the same lines as what you yourself said. ;)

The vehicle flip thing is already a known issue and supposedly a fix is already in the pipeline but waiting for Monday.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Chortles

[Variable 322]

The vehicle flip thing is already a known issue and supposedly a fix is already in the pipeline but waiting for Monday.

Cool! Where was it said it will finally get fixed?

[chortles 263]

Cool! Where was it said it will finally get fixed?

13-09-2013

We have decided to push the update of devbranch to Monday. Motivations:

As above - people around the world are still downloading lots of data and any publication will reset them.

The multiplayer scene benefits from cross-compatibility for a few days.

When we do return daily updates on Monday there is a lot of cool stuff to come. Of course all improvements from the last few weeks get back in (AI / memory optimizations), but we also have installed better anti-flip systems on tanks.

Discussion (as opposed to just the above announcement) began here:

Caution: Monday's devbranch has a risk of being more broken first - before stabilizing to something great in the days thereafter. The situation is: our artists, designers and programmers have not been allowed to commit game data for several weeks due to the release data lock. When the lock is lifted and everyone commits and publishes their local (FT) fixes and improvements, there is a good chance the data fights each other. It may take a day or so to resolve these conflicts :)

Yes - SVN (branching) is wonderful. So indeed e.g. our programmers were operating an internal development branch and special release branch for a few weeks. Critical fixes were merged from dev to release branch, a new release EXE compiled and tested. But even SVN or similar versioning systems don't solve all merge conflicts or simple logic incompatibilities when a merge technically works flawlessly. And on Monday it all comes together in a controlled chaos

It meant to imply a fix for the glitches that make tanks flip as if they weigh very little - no future magical anti-flip technology ;)

Also possibly of interest, though NOT about the vehicles:

Hmm the iron sight zeroing is bugged again if you take the weapon from the crate - before the release it was fixed :/

Fixed too late into the release process - back on Monday and the first patch.

And as far as what the Monday patch means:

:D sorry, 1+1 != 11

The dev branch update with mainly restore the fixes/tweaks made in the last few weeks (post data-lock), like some of the AI tweaks (rotation speed, and the like), plus other minor fixes to models and paths to textures, etc.

We'll announce when anything more 'significant' is inbound.

[Variable 322]

Hmmm, I do hope anti-flip will be cancelled for all vehicles. Reading the quotes you gave, it seems like they are trying to workaround the problems the tanks currently suffer from. I understand that there won't be any anti-flip solution for tanks, but that doesn't mean anti flip is getting cancelled for all Arma 3 vehicles on Monday.

[chortles 263]

I'm waiting for the Monday patch to see what actually happens -- after all, anti-flip isn't the same as anti-rollover. ;) I'm basing this on DnA's bit about it being a fix "for the glitches that make tanks flip as if they weigh very little".

[zukov 490]

I'm waiting for the Monday patch to see what actually happens -- after all, anti-flip isn't the same as anti-rollover. ;) I'm basing this on DnA's bit about it being a fix "for the glitches that make tanks flip as if they weigh very little".

the patch is also for the recoil of the main guns vehicles?

[chortles 263]

No idea. remember, as DnA said, some stuff was "Fixed too late into the release process - back on Monday and the first patch" and as RoyaltyinExile said, "The dev branch update with mainly restore the fixes/tweaks made in the last few weeks (post data-lock), like some of the AI tweaks (rotation speed, and the like), plus other minor fixes to models and paths to textures, etc."

I don't have a changelog for what exactly that was/will be, so I'm just waiting for the Monday patch and its changelog.

[progamer 14]

Well the fact that anyone who makes a comparison to VBS instantly gets shot down with go buy it and buy all your freinds a copy doesn't help with Arma 3. Seriously why do people not like saying Arma 3 could learn tins from VBS and become a better game? The FT tracker shows people clearly want what VBS has. Right now if something's not realistic enough for people's tastes they get shot down with go buy VBS which shouldn't be the solution.

[royaltyinexile 175]

I'm basing this on DnA's bit about it being a fix "for the glitches that make tanks flip as if they weigh very little".

To be specific, we're trying to address issues where the physx collision lod of the MBT cannon could cause problems like the tank being flipped around as if it were weightless.

Best,

RiE

Edited September 14, 2013 by RoyaltyinExile

[chortles 263]

To be specific, we're trying to address an issues where the physx collision lod of the MBT cannon could cause problems like the tank being flipped around as if it were weightless.

Thanks for the explanation, now we (finally) have an idea what DnA was talking about! :lol:

[suprememodder 11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMMA7djguU

Such a great thing there are no turn speed limits. Amazing improvement Smookie & Co.

yep, and your legs don't move when you're using a turret or in one of those intermediate stances.

[spamurai 3]

This thread is rather depressing.

If you really think that DayZ was a bad thing to happen to ArmA, that it was nothing more then a cash cow that brought nothing but the wrong things and people with the wrong mindset to ArmA... then you are a fossil. It is ultimately you who have the wrong mindset, not the 1.8 million people who gave ArmA some badly needed mainstream attention. What better staging could Bohemia have stumble into then to have so many eyes on ArmA with the launch of ArmA 3 on the horizon? None.

DayZ brought attention to ArmA. Brought people to ArmA. Not people "with the wrong mindset". People. <end-stop> Period.

People who did not give ArmA even a glancing look in any of the previous years of ArmA's history and would have passed by ArmA 3 without even noticing it's arrival. Suddenly everyone was talking about ArmA and that is something far more important then arguing over petty things like "grenade damage" or "animation speed" or "no 3D vehicle interiors".

Under DayZ's "zombie motif" is a strong ArmA pedigree. The mod is based on the core ArmA experience at heart. From it's core assets and code, to it's unflinching preponderance to virtual atmosphere not available in any present format. Dean Hall proved that ArmA can be an experience for everyone, not just the minority armchair virtual commando's, without having to be another "HALO" or "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield:Whatever". If you can't see how DayZ honors it's ArmA lineage, then dare I say it is you who truly doesn't get what ArmA is all about. DayZ simply uses the Zombie trope as a means of presenting ArmA in a format almost anyone could appreciate as interesting, and not the tiresome Modern Warfare theme.

It's really sad to think that DayZ will launch as a stand alone product using ArmA 2.5 technology in the coming weeks or months, and when it does it will overshadow ArmA 3 in the attention it garners from all those people "with the wrong mindset". Meanwhile ArmA 3 will take it's usual place in the corner as that game that everyone has something nice to say about it, but no one actually plays it for one reason or another.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Spamurai

[dm 9]

This thread is rather depressing.

If you really think that DayZ was a bad thing to happen to ArmA, that it was nothing more then a cash cow that bought nothing but the wrong things and people with the wrong mindset to ArmA... then you are a fossil. It is ultimately you who have the wrong mindset, not the 1.8 million people who gave ArmA some badly needed mainstream attention. What better staging could Bohemia have stumble into then to have so many eyes on ArmA with the launch of ArmA 3 on the horizon? None.

DayZ brought attention to ArmA. Brought people to ArmA. Not people "with the wrong mindset". People. <end-stop> Period.

People who did not give ArmA even a glancing look in any of the previous years of ArmA's history and would have passed by ArmA 3 without even noticing it's arrival. Suddenly everyone was talking about ArmA and that is something far more important then arguing over petty things like "grenade damage" or "animation speed" or "no 3D vehicle interiors".

Under DayZ's "zombie motif" is a strong ArmA pedigree. The mod is based on the core ArmA experience at heart. From it's core assets and code, to it's unflinching preponderance to virtual atmosphere not available in any present format. Dean Hall proved that ArmA can be an experience for everyone, not just the minority armchair virtual commando's, without having to be another "HALO" or "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield:Whatever". If you can't see how DayZ honors it's ArmA lineage, then dare I say it is you who truly doesn't get what ArmA is all about. DayZ simply uses the Zombie trope as a means of presenting ArmA in a format almost anyone could appreciate as interesting, and not the tiresome Modern Warfare theme.

It's really sad to think that DayZ will launch as a stand alone product using ArmA 2.5 technology in the coming weeks or months, and when it does it will overshadow ArmA 3 in the attention it garners from all those people "with the wrong mindset". Meanwhile ArmA 3 will take it's usual place in the corner as that game that everyone has something nice to say about it, but no one actually plays it for one reason or another.

/Thread

Best post this forum has seen in years.

[zukov 490]

Meanwhile ArmA 3 will take it's usual place in the corner as that game that everyone has something nice to say about it, but no one actually plays it for one reason or another.

uhmmm i play this game if have the contents so far doesn't have SP and in MP only coop.....practically the OPFOR vehicles are unfinished and the T100 is literally a placeholder

[spamurai 3]

uhmmm i play this game if have the contents so far doesn't have SP and in MP only coop.....practically the OPFOR vehicles are unfinished and the T100 is literally a placeholder

Exactly Zukov, exactly.

With this being the most content starved release of ArmA yet, if anything, ArmA 3 could sure have used a "DayZ" of it's own to kick it off with a healthy boost of momentum while we wait for BIS to build up it's native content offering.

ArmA has never looked any better, never been more accessible, never had such a smooth release...

... the only thing it is missing... is a reason to play it.

[Variable 322]

To be specific, we're trying to address issues where the physx collision lod of the MBT cannon could cause problems like the tank being flipped around as if it were weightless.

Best,

RiE

Thanks RiE!

Is there any intention to remove the anti-flip system for vehicles?

[dmarkwick 261]

Well the fact that anyone who makes a comparison to VBS instantly gets shot down with go buy it and buy all your freinds a copy doesn't help with Arma 3. Seriously why do people not like saying Arma 3 could learn tins from VBS and become a better game? The FT tracker shows people clearly want what VBS has. Right now if something's not realistic enough for people's tastes they get shot down with go buy VBS which shouldn't be the solution.

People get shot down for comparing to VBS because it's an unhelpful comparison, especially when the person comparing it has not used it, and doesn't really know what VBS is or how it plays.

People assume a lot of things about VBS, like its ultimate sim label etc. Let me try an explain my own understanding of VBS:

It is a training tool. It is designed to train military students in procedure.

It is not designed to train soldiers in how to be soldiers. The only way to do that is with boots, rain, mud and abuse :)

VBS is essentially a collection of commissioned features and assets. As such, each feature & asset is as "realistic" as required for particular training scenarios. Often this level of realism necessarily falls short of absolute realism, because things need to be done not wrestled with.

Playing VBS is less fun than playing ArmA. Because, it's simply a different product, designed to train and not entertain.

VBS is the ultimate in imbalanced assets :) meaning that all the cool stuff belongs on one side - Blufor. The reasoning behind this should be hugely obvious.

Occasionally some technical advancement is traded between the two products. BIS and BISim are totally different companies, literally completely separate, but there is a happy relationship that allows for this. This may change now that BISim is part of another larger organisation.

And finally - player suppression effects is in VBS :) therefore cool & realistic, right? (I agree with it BTW, I'm just yanking some chains here... ;))

[Tonci87 163]

As I see it:

The FAK System needs to go, the faster the better! We need a proper wounding system. This is one of the most important Issues right now and a serious step back from Arma 2 First Aid Module.

The whole inertia stuff doesn´t bother me that much

The Anti Flip Sytem on vehicels needs to go away too.

[chortles 263]

Thanks RiE!

Is there any intention to remove the anti-flip system for vehicles?

It seems more like an would-be fix for an issue with simulating the weight of the MBTs to begin with.

[dmarkwick 261]

Yes because somebody will bother removing FAKs from every single mission.

Every single mission? You intend to play every single mission, and demand that those missions adhere you YOUR standard? Let me ask this - are you interested in playing missions that have a FAK component? If not, then play the missions that do not - it's more likely that thaose missions are closer to what you wish to play in any case.

Or, you know, alter the missions yourself. or make ones yourself.

Considering that removing them will solve absolutely nothing - when you will be forced to use just as broken medic instead who just waves hands, beep beeps while you keep fighting and you are healed.

So one of your complaints is the animation used to denote healing by medic. I see this as supremely unimportant. I might agree with the fighting ability though, although even that seems to be an opinion thing. I can see arguments for both sides on that.

At least number of FAKs is limited and they take you out of combat for 3 seconds. Medic has infinite number of them and can be 50m away handwaving as long as he started casting a spell when you were up close. And you can still shoot people while he heals you which is just FPDR

If the unit being healed can indeed move off and continue fighting then I agree that needs fixing.

[zukov 490]

It seems more like an would-be fix for an issue with simulating the weight of the MBTs to begin with.

i admit haven't faith in BIS after main release, a lot of things are unacceptable, and no words concernig unfinished assets and the lack of PVP missions

[metalcraze 290]

Every single mission? You intend to play every single mission, and demand that those missions adhere you YOUR standard? Let me ask this - are you interested in playing missions that have a FAK component? If not, then play the missions that do not - it's more likely that thaose missions are closer to what you wish to play in any case.

Or, you know, alter the missions yourself. or make ones yourself.

You wanted to say OFP/A1/A2 standard.

Also silly "if you don't like it fix it yourself" never gets old, does it?

So one of your complaints is the animation used to denote healing by medic. I see this as supremely unimportant. I might agree with the fighting ability though, although even that seems to be an opinion thing. I can see arguments for both sides on that.

Of course you can see arguments on both sides. Casual players love it, just like FAKs. Because this eliminates any downsides to being wounded completely.

If the unit being healed can indeed move off and continue fighting then I agree that needs fixing.

The fact that you don't know that this is how it is says that you probably never played with or needed to use a medic in ArmA3. Which only reinforces my point.

[dmarkwick 261]

You wanted to say OFP/A1/A2 standard.

Also silly "if you don't like it fix it yourself" never gets old, does it?

Mission design also never gets old.

Of course you can see arguments on both sides. Casual players love it, just like FAKs. Because this eliminates any downsides to being wounded completely.

It's because I can envision that a guy being treated might also be able to still point his weapon & fire if he really needs to, depending on the nature of the wound.

The fact that you don't know that this is how it is says that you probably never played with or needed to use a medic in ArmA3. Which only reinforces my point.

Utter shit. The fact that I don't know this is purely down to simply never having tried to move off while being treated. The point reinforced here is that you cannot fathom anything other than your own fears of what other people do.

[zukov 490]

So one of your complaints is the animation used to denote healing by medic. I see this as supremely unimportant. I might agree with the fighting ability though, although even that seems to be an opinion thing. I can see arguments for both sides on that.

ok but the repair specialist that use a "first aid kid" breaks a little the immersion ;)....... any chanche that will have proper animations?