A2 vehicles a solution or A3 lack of content?

[dm 9]

Wrong. Even with the current content the game is still buggy I found. Also I am not doing that, simply stating my personal opinion. I have been in the community just as long as you probably have so I am certainly in support of BI still!

Not wrong at all.

Adding feature-lacking content would just add to the pile of hormonal rage that is going on right now. The complaints are still going about A2 tanks not having thermal when used in OA, etc etc.

Also, pro-dev-tip for you: Just becuase there are already some bugs, does mean it is acceptable to dump a load more buggy stuff into the game. Thats not how development works.

Comparison for you: So you didn't get all the ingame toys you expected, did you bitch this hard at your parents on christmas day if you didnt get the toys you asked "santa" for?

[hetsar 10]

Not wrong at all.

Adding feature-lacking content would just add to the pile of hormonal rage that is going on right now. The complaints are still going about A2 tanks not having thermal when used in OA, etc etc.

Also, pro-dev-tip for you: Just becuase there are already some bugs, does mean it is acceptable to dump a load more buggy stuff into the game. Thats not how development works.

Comparison for you: So you didn't get all the ingame toys you expected, did you bitch this hard at your parents on christmas day if you didnt get the toys you asked "santa" for?

Who ever said I was on about all the content? I was actually referring to the fact there is only 1 jet in the release. It also seems some people seem to be against the idea of A2 content being ported also which is why I am writing this, no one forces said people to download said addons if they did get made.

[-=seany=- 5]

Not wrong at all.

Adding feature-lacking content would just add to the pile of hormonal rage that is going on right now. The complaints are still going about A2 tanks not having thermal when used in OA, etc etc.

Also, pro-dev-tip for you: Just becuase there are already some bugs, does mean it is acceptable to dump a load more buggy stuff into the game. Thats not how development works.

Comparison for you: So you didn't get all the ingame toys you expected, did you bitch this hard at your parents on christmas day if you didnt get the toys you asked "santa" for?

To me, you posting these "counter bitching" replies constantly are worse than the complaints themselves. People are entitled to complain. Is the game a complete disaster? No of course not. There is a small amount of "rage" that you always see around the forums for any game (particularly around release), but a lot of peoples disappointments are legitimate and they have the right to post about them. The games release has some flaws, expect to get complaints. I actually see a lot of first time posters and lurkers coming on here today to voice their concerns. There will a lot more of them too.

You also post extreme examples/analogies in your replies such as the "Toys at Christmas" / "pile of hormonal rage" BS. What most people are asking for is not unreasonable.

If you or BIS expect there not be quite a few complaint or disappointment type posts then you are in for a shock and a lot of repeating your self for the next few days /weeks.

Edited September 12, 2013 by -=seany=-

[mistyronin 1181]

To me, you posting these "counter bitching" replies constantly are worse than the complaints themselves. People are entitled to complain. Is the game a complete disaster? No of course not. There is a small amount of "rage" that you always see around the forums for any game (particularly around release), but a lot of peoples disappointments are legitimate and they have the right to post about them. The games release has some flaws, expect to get complaints. I actually see a lot of first time posters and lurkers coming on here today to voice their concerns. There will a lot more of them too.

You also post extreme examples/analogies in your replies such as the "Toys at Christmas" / "pile of hormonal rage" BS. What most people are asking for is not unreasonable.

And what is worse, if DM fights/harass people who give their opinions in a educated and constructive manner, then it escalates to a more and more rude and destructive discussion.

Basically what is DM doing is throwing fuel to the fire, which only creates a worse atmosphere. Which is a shame, because even with complains this forums could be a nice community to talk about Arma 3.

[dragon01 902]

AII also only had one tank per side, but I agree, this could use expansion. T-90, Leopard and Abrams would definitely be still around.

[mistyronin 1181]

AII also only had one tank per side, but I agree, this could use expansion.

A2 has only the M1A1 for the US but it includes T90, T72 and even T34 ( and that's the vanilla, with OA it includes the T55 too ) on the other sides.

The point is that in major wars, countries tend to use all their tanks ( even the oldest ones ), besides that for example Iran ( in which future A3 is mainly based on for the CSAT ) right now has 12 different main battle tanks.

More different tanks add more depth to the tank battles.

[bad benson 1733]

To me, you posting these "counter bitching" replies constantly are worse than the complaints themselves. People are entitled to complain. Is the game a complete disaster? No of course not. There is a small amount of "rage" that you always see around the forums for any game (particularly around release), but a lot of peoples disappointments are legitimate and they have the right to post about them. The games release has some flaws, expect to get complaints. I actually see a lot of first time posters and lurkers coming on here today to voice their concerns. There will a lot more of them too.

You also post extreme examples/analogies in your replies such as the "Toys at Christmas" / "pile of hormonal rage" BS. What most people are asking for is not unreasonable.

If you or BIS expect there not be quite a few complaint or disappointment type posts then you are in for a shock and a lot of repeating your self for the next few days /weeks.

i kinda agree with that. while i personally expected lots of the stuff that happened because i'm with BI since the very start, i still think that most of the cristicism, however badly presented, is actually valid. i mean yes some people could try to talk less like the world just ended but this is a game forum. what do you expect?

for me it all comes down to what will be delivered after this "release" and how. if it will turn out that people buying the supporter edition will be the only ones getting a full game for a reasonable price (they payed already for all DLCs), then i'm gonna be pissed. and i can't imagine how i would feel, if i bought the game now.

i mean requesting them to rewrite the whole engine is one thing, but what we have here is simply not finished. sure some people (on some days me too) can live with that but that only means that they have a bigger threshold for all this than others. no need to talk down on those who don't.

the game is not finished and just taking out unfinished and buggy content on "release" doesn't exactly make it the "polished" thing that BI themselves said would be the result of this early access thing. there are big problems remaining. and people talking against recycling stuff must've missed where that one jet we have is coming from http://imageshack.us/a/img534/4145/arma2oa2013052922342814.jpg (sorry couldn't find a better picture ;) )

i say ignore the obvious trolls and let the passionate fans be passionate. i know it's fun to take the role of the calm guy but who does it help?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Bad Benson

[dm 9]

And what is worse, if DM fights/harass people who give their opinions in a educated and constructive manner

I have yet to see evidence of either of those things (educated OR constructive).

All there is are a lot of assumptions, then when people who are educated post, they are simply ignored or shouted down with the typical "oh but this should be easy!" response.

[nimrod123 11]

I have yet to see evidence of either of those things (educated OR constructive).

All there is are a lot of assumptions, then when people who are educated post, they are simply ignored or shouted down with the typical "oh but this should be easy!" response.

seriously, don't try and explain these 4 things;

QA

project managment

coding

asset creation

to the general community, as 90% think they are instant magic, and the dev team was to lazy to read the spell correctly

[suprememodder 11]

it's equally wrong to presume that the qa process was working perfectly and doesn't/shouldn't need improvement, aka the infallible overlord fallacy

[nimrod123 11]

it's equally wrong to presume that the qa process was working perfectly and doesn't/shouldn't need improvement, aka the infallible overlord fallacy

no but people are saying it completly failed.

thats so far from the truth its not even funny. look at HOI3 from PDS, or gettysburg armored warfare, for a massive dayone fail.

what arma 3 is, is a project managment fail (and a minor one at that). noone seems to have stood up and said that either they push the date back, or they cut even more content

[progamer 14]

Unless AAF is getting a C-130, It looks like a placeholder from AllinArma in the tactical guide because here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161576-A-Large-Fixed-Wing-transport-aircraft-for-Arma-3/page18

We found the C-130 is way too old and the successor is the A400M.it would just be lazy to port the C-130 to ArmA 3.

[wgaf 10]

Porting over the Arma2 content is the only way they can save their game and thier company.

If their precious "vision of the future" is so important to them, they can exclude it all from their campaign.

But it needs to be available in the editor.

Before they do anything else, before they put five minutes of work into their campaign, they need to port the arma 2 stuff over.

Edited September 13, 2013 by wgaf

[dm 9]

Porting over the Arma2 content is the only way they can save their game and thier company.

lol

And how is your game company doing? Does it have a dozen released titles? Has it survived for 15 years? Does it have at least 2 multi-million selling games?

Didn't think so...

[wgaf 10]

BI has done very well until now.

The problem is here, now DM.

No amount of reminiscing can fix problems that are here, now, can they?

Did BI stockpile money from its previous successes to carry on indefinitely if future products flop?

If not, then they need to do something to ensure a future, don't they?

For example, to correct the mistakes made developing Arma3.

It doesn't seem like some people are really grasping how big of a disaster this is.

BI is my favorite game developer, I got hooked with OFP.

I don't want them to fail, I want them to change course and to succeed, and to keep making *great* games.

Let's be honest, Arma3 is at best still in a beta phase of development. There is time to correct the very serious mistakes with the content, but that time is not unlimited, and they need to act fast, or at least pledge fast to act.

I want what all fans want, a true and good successor to Arma2. Not this lazy, sloppy, uninspired, boring, who-cares? junk.

Why did they spend so much time making such an exquisite map and then tack the rest of the sloppy junk on as an afterthought?

Edited September 13, 2013 by wgaf

[dm 9]

BI has done very well until now.

Yes, they have

Did BI stockpile money from its previous successes to carry on indefinitely if future products flop?

If not, then they need to do something to ensure a future, don't they?

Pretty sure they'd have operating funds, I mean, they survived between A1 and A2, right?

For example, to correct the mistakes made developing Arma3.

It doesn't seem like some people are really grasping how big of a disaster this is.

You might percieve them as mistakes, but I'm pretty sure BI are happy with the sales they're getting. Afterall, they can see how many sales they're making, you can't. All you've got is your blind hatred and rage because the game doesn't have all the models you think it should, ergo it must be a failure.

Just because you post that A3 is a failure, doesn't make it the truth. :)

[eXpouk 10]

How have they failed exactly? Sales wise I doubt they have so they probably aren't short on money and even if people are disappointed its damn near impossible to get a refund off Steam. So you'll either have to make do with what we've got or go back to A2OA and wait until they release more stuff or it gets modded in.

[dmarkwick 261]

Porting over the Arma2 content is the only way they can save their game and thier company.

If their precious "vision of the future" is so important to them, they can exclude it all from their campaign.

But it needs to be available in the editor.

Before they do anything else, before they put five minutes of work into their campaign, they need to port the arma 2 stuff over.

Um, ArmA2 already exists, and I believe is quite popular. I'd also like to see A2 stuff available in the nice new engine, but really the game is called ArmA3 and is a different game. Maybe you just don't like it?

[zukov 490]

at the moment i will happy if quickly BIS will finish the contents, actually in game, almost all Opfor vehicles are made in atrocious manner

[gagagu 21]

"Arma is a Sandbox" .... ok. great, then give a lot of stuff. For my opinion BI should insert all stuff they can get. More Stuff give us the possibility to create different fantastic mission: Dogfights, sea battles, invasions,.....

It would great to have a great community library where all possible stuff can put in and all player will have the same content, so no one has to download and start a mod with one vehicle to play a special mission.

[wgaf 10]

Yes, they have

Pretty sure they'd have operating funds, I mean, they survived between A1 and A2, right?

You might percieve them as mistakes, but I'm pretty sure BI are happy with the sales they're getting. Afterall, they can see how many sales they're making, you can't. All you've got is your blind hatred and rage because the game doesn't have all the models you think it should, ergo it must be a failure.

Just because you post that A3 is a failure, doesn't make it the truth. :)

Are they happy with the sales they're getting?

A3 isn't yet a failure, but the release version is a failure, and it will be a failure if the enormous, glaring problems with quality and quantity of content aren't fixed soon.

Which other BI release had cheap lazy reskins as the only thing setting the factions apart?

[nodunit 397]

they survived A2, right?)

Which is rather astonishing consider the Morphicon release..

[wgaf 10]

"Arma is a Sandbox" .... ok. great, then give a lot of stuff. For my opinion BI should insert all stuff they can get. More Stuff give us the possibility to create different fantastic mission: Dogfights, sea battles, invasions,.....

It would great to have a great community library where all possible stuff can put in and all player will have the same content, so no one has to download and start a mod with one vehicle to play a special mission.

Yup, it's only sandbox is there is stuff in the sandbox to play with. There isn't.

I think the "future war" idea is stupid to begin with for a simulation game, but I could learn to live with it if it were done well.

The problem is, it has been executed so poorly. Not only is it so implausible as to actually insult the intelligence of players who are military buffs (and surely THEY have never been much of BI's market...), but it is just shoddy, lazy, low quality work.

If it were fleshed out at least, if there was some diversity, different strenghts and weaknesses for different things, etc, then it could be fun.

But it's just a tiny amount of uninspired, hideously ugly stuff with identical abilities, attributes, and even models copy-pasted 3 times and retextured.

I really, really want to know what happened to BI.

They used to be a detail oriented, quality oriented, serious mil sim developer. When did their mind change, what went wrong?

Edited September 13, 2013 by wgaf

[nodunit 397]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, you're saying that there are no weapons or vehicles.

[dm 9]

Are they happy with the sales they're getting?

All indication is yes.

A3 isn't yet a failure, but the release version is a failure, and it will be a failure if the enormous, glaring problems with quality and quantity of content aren't fixed soon.

Which other BI release had cheap lazy reskins as the only thing setting the factions apart?

Again, only in your rather asinine opinion.