Disapointed with the full release content

[windies 11]

The more I keep thinking about the paid mod content thing, the more I keep thinking ArmA is going down the wrong path. I just see too many problems with it. It also leads me to believe that they want to support the ArmA series less now. I've been pretty well convinced that since DayZ was such a widespread success, their focus has shifted towards it. This is just kind of makes me further believe that they want to grow away from the ArmA series and into something new, especially with how they initially wanted ArmA 3 to be much more futuristic and how they probably realized that it wouldn't sell very well to their core audience and honestly, when it comes to ArmA their core audience is all they really have. I just don't think they are handling it very well and I think that trying to introduce paid mods to entice more content is going to backfire.

[metalcraze 290]

ArmA3 has the poorest amount of content in the series history and BIS is already thinking about paid content when half of the content is not even in the game and probably never will be for free.

[mistyronin 1181]

ArmA3 has the poorest amount of content in the series history and BIS is already thinking about paid content when half of the content is not even in the game and probably never will be for free.

I think you misunderstood them. For one side they have compromised themselves to release the campaign and a few more stuff for free ( jets for each side ).

On the other, what they are trying is to promote the community modders. That way we would all have more quality addons. That is mainly what bigger part of the community is asking for.

[Gekkibi 11]

The more I keep thinking about the paid mod content thing, the more I keep thinking ArmA is going down the wrong path. I just see too many problems with it. It also leads me to believe that they want to support the ArmA series less now. I've been pretty well convinced that since DayZ was such a widespread success, their focus has shifted towards it. This is just kind of makes me further believe that they want to grow away from the ArmA series and into something new, especially with how they initially wanted ArmA 3 to be much more futuristic and how they probably realized that it wouldn't sell very well to their core audience and honestly, when it comes to ArmA their core audience is all they really have. I just don't think they are handling it very well and I think that trying to introduce paid mods to entice more content is going to backfire.

What about VBS? Consumer market is small drop in the ocean. Sorry to say, but we are just willing test subjects (don't get me wrong, I'm happy being one :) ) so that BIS could improve VBS.

[mistyronin 1181]

What about VBS? Consumer market is small drop in the ocean. Sorry to say, but we are just willing test subjects (don't get me wrong, I'm happy being one :) ) so that BIS could improve VBS.

Well its true that Arma series help to improve VBS, but I do also think that VBS also helps Arma series ( though I'd like a few more features and vehicles from VBS like the landing craft, medical system etc. :P ). Is some kind of symbiosis. That's the good thing that they both use the same engine.

[ericfr 0]

Arma3 became a 'rescue project' to Dayz development 'the new project'.

The DevTeam, "some members may be interested in a new project"

Some members immediatly assigned on Dayz.

[grillob3 11]

I think you misunderstood them. For one side they have compromised themselves to release the campaign and a few more stuff for free ( jets for each side ).

On the other, what they are trying is to promote the community modders. That way we would all have more quality addons. That is mainly what bigger part of the community is asking for.

We already have quality mods!Arma 2 had ACE and hopefully will be in arma 3, JSRS is already working on it, MSO is coming as ALIVE and many others...let them charge if they want to...if BIS charges for mods for me seems like a sell out and i am sure BIS is not like that. BF2 long lives because of FREE mods, like PR team( by the way many friends keep asking me: "just forget about arma 3 come play BF2 PR1.0 with us") that pretty much re-made the game!

And its not 1 or 2 mods...arma 2 had 100s of it!!!If you adds up by the release of arma 4 you will have a $200 dollars game minimum. Arma 2 co+baf+pmc+acr was for me around $70!

[windies 11]

I think you misunderstood them. For one side they have compromised themselves to release the campaign and a few more stuff for free ( jets for each side ).

On the other, what they are trying is to promote the community modders. That way we would all have more quality addons. That is mainly what bigger part of the community is asking for.

You seriously don't think they would take any royalty? What it's about is getting the community to build content for their game so that they don't have to and can focus on other projects, ala DayZ. Sorry to be blunt.

[mistyronin 1181]

The DevTeam, "some members may be interested in a new project"

Some members immediatly assigned on Dayz.

Well, seeing how many people talk about the devs in the Arma 3 forums, if I were one of them I'd be interested in another project too...

Besides that they have been making the same kind of game for more than 10 years...

You seriously don't think they would take any royalty? What it's about is getting the community to build content for their game so that they don't have to and can focus on other projects, ala DayZ. Sorry to be blunt.

Could be, the same as Apple does in the iTunes. But they have made the system, so I don't see it as a bad thing as long as the community modder has at least 70% of the money.

We already have quality mods!Arma 2 had ACE and hopefully will be in arma 3, JSRS is already working on it, MSO is coming as ALIVE and many others...let them charge if they want to...if BIS charges for mods for me seems like a sell out and i am sure BIS is not like that. BF2 long lives because of FREE mods, like PR team( by the way many friends keep asking me: "just forget about arma 3 come play BF2 PR1.0 with us") that pretty much re-made the game!

It's true, but for one side this will make that more people create mods / addons, on the other I also think that people like the ones from ACE or FFAA deserve some kind of compensation for their awesome work.

Edited September 14, 2013 by MistyRonin

[windies 11]

What about VBS? Consumer market is small drop in the ocean. Sorry to say, but we are just willing test subjects (don't get me wrong, I'm happy being one :) ) so that BIS could improve VBS.

What does VBS have to do with ArmA 3? BI Simulations is a separate entity from BI Studio's, just ask DM to clarify since he so adamantly denies working for "BI Studios".

and BIS works on creating extremely expensive modules for their military customers because I doubt they are going to want possibly buggy 3rd party addon content that may or may not work correctly. They pay that much money so that it works the first time.

I also doubt that ArmA 3 sales go towards VBS in any way. Rather if they were going to be directed anywhere, I would be more willing to bet that it would be into DayZ.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

Well, seeing how many people talk about the devs in the Arma 3 forums, if I were one of them I'd be interested in another project too...

Besides that they have been making the same kind of game for more than 10 years...

Could be, the same as Apple does in the iTunes. But they have made the system, so I don't see it as a bad thing as long as the community modder has at least 70% of the money.

You missed the point of my post.

[Gekkibi 11]

What does VBS have to do with ArmA 3? BI Simulations is a separate entity from BI Studio's, just ask DM to clarify since he so adamantly denies working for "BI Studios".

and BIS works on creating extremely expensive modules for their military customers because I doubt they are going to want possibly buggy 3rd party addon content that may or may not work correctly. They pay that much money so that it works the first time.

I also doubt that ArmA 3 sales go towards VBS in any way. Rather if they were going to be directed anywhere, I would be more willing to bet that it would be into DayZ.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

You missed the point of my post.

Are you saying BI Simulations is not getting anything out from the customer products..? I'm not talking how they can monetarily support it.

Not going to continue this discussion because it's clearly off-topic.

[mistyronin 1181]

You missed the point of my post.

Sorry, fast read at 3 am xD

I'd prefer BI to make a huge awesome engine with tons of features and really well optimized and that the community create much of the stuff. If I'm not wrong it's like they have done with VBS.

BI is a small team, and can't work on much load of addons, they can or hire more 3d modders (like the GTA 5 ) or let the community modders earn money. In the second case we would have more and more content, from all the world ( because everyone is making their own army ), so we would have more to try. But of course that way would be a bit more expensive.

[windies 11]

Are you saying BI Simulations is not getting anything out from the customer products..? I'm not talking how they can monetarily support it.

Edit: Not going to continue this discussion because it's clearly off-topic.

BI Studio, the makers of ArmA and Take On and DayZ Standalone, are not the same entity or corporation as BI Simulations, the makers of the VBS line of military training tools.

[mistyronin 1181]

BI Studio, the makers of ArmA and Take On and DayZ Standalone, are not the same entity or corporation as BI Simulations, the makers of the VBS line of military training tools.

Well they are brother companies and they are both in Prague. And though I don't know exactly, I believe that there are some links between them.

[windies 11]

Sorry, fast read at 3 am xD

I'd prefer BI to make a huge awesome engine with tons of features and really well optimized and that the community create much of the stuff. If I'm not wrong it's like they have done with VBS.

BI is a small team, and can't work on much load of addons, they can or hire more 3d modders (like the GTA 5 ) or let the community modders earn money. In the second case we would have more and more content, from all the world ( because everyone is making their own army ), so we would have more to try. But of course that way would be a bit more expensive.

Yet we are seeing the engine operating as it is right now in a terrible state. And they are already trying to release info on monetizing addon content. It doesn't speak well to trying to keep faith in the fact that they are going to continue supporting ArmA 3 as they have done previous iterations in the past. Also there are many issue's with trying to monetizing addon content. Also trying to insure of addon Interoperability and compatibility could possibly be a nightmare. There's just a lot of issue's both logistically and financially.

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:16 ----------

Well they are brother companies and they are both in Prague. And though I don't know exactly, I believe that there are some links between them.

They are not the same company nor do they have any ties to one another.

[mistyronin 1181]

They are not the same company nor do they have any ties to one another.

Yeah that's why both Arma and VBS use the same graphics, units, etc. And the same logo...

BTW then why Bohemia Interactive Simulations post hiring offers in the NEWS forum of BI?

Bohemia Interactive Simulations has an immediate opening located in our Orlando, FL office for a Technical Support Specialist. Applicants for this position must be willing to work full-time from our Orlando, FL office. Proficiency in both written and spoken English is required. Technical Support Specialists are tasked with customer interaction via email, ticketing, phone, and on-site services to handle all support related matters for company products. Ideal candidates will be familiar with key Bohemia Interactive products such as VBS2 and ArmA. Experienced developers and administrators with VBS2 and/or ArmA are preferred. Applicants must possess essential IT knowledge/skills and be able to troubleshoot a variety of OS, software and hardware related issues.

[nicolasroger 11]

The thing about paying for addons is that while it will certainly produce more quality addons and more addons in general, there will be a lot less user willing to use them.

So in the end we end up with a game where there is actualy LESS mod used overall.

I think this is a really really bad idea.

[UltimateBawb 1]

They are not the same company nor do they have any ties to one another.

BI Simulations is a subsidiary of BI Studios.

[Gera_CCT 12]

People, ArmA is just a huge and public BETA fest for VBS improvements

[mistyronin 1181]

People, ArmA is just a huge and public BETA fest for VBS improvements

I'd say that is a game that shares engine and part of production with VBS. For example

( look at min 3:50 ). The video was from dec 2011.

So for being in the Arma 3 community we got features from VBS and viceversa. It's not a secret.

BTW if you want to know why VBS has more features and vehicles, just look the price...

Edited September 14, 2013 by MistyRonin

[nodunit 397]

I think you misunderstood them. For one side they have compromised themselves to release the campaign and a few more stuff for free ( jets for each side ).

On the other, what they are trying is to promote the community modders. That way we would all have more quality addons. That is mainly what bigger part of the community is asking for.

Quality varies but for the most part people don't wind up making addons not because of money but because of other things. Sure the fact that it doesn't pay the bills factors in but there are other sources of concern ESPECIALLY for Arma 3, regarding the steam workshop. Factoring in as well the hysteria that popped up late in Arma 2 because someone created a program that could crack open PBO's and extract everything intact including models.

I'd say if any models should be examined then DCS' take on third party fits the bill very well.

Anywho, more than the visuals, models and textures, scripts and coding should be given consideration.

As a buddy of mine puts it:

is all scripting now protected or does scripting remain BI's open source property? etc

model and textures are pretty simple to keep people from stealing or warezing, but should script work be the same way?

on one hand to block the free exchange of scripting is like blocking the free exchange of ideas

on the other hand do you just want any fool to rip your scripting that you've spent tons of your free unpaid time on.

Edited September 14, 2013 by NodUnit

[froggyluv 2136]

People, ArmA is just a huge and public BETA fest for VBS improvements

Obvious you've never played VBS2 - there's a reason they're trying to catch up to Arma 3 engine wise...

[celery 8]

VBS2 is Arma 1 with an incredible amount of hacks.

[mistyronin 1181]

VBS2 is Arma 1 with an incredible amount of hacks.

Well it's a bit more than that IMO. There's lots of other features and mechanisms, that are more oriented to it's use as a training tool than as a game, here there are a few. And has also other software to create realist terrains etc.

[ric 1]

VBS2 is Arma 1 with an incredible amount of hacks.

which version?

VBS2 v2.0 is VBS2 v1.x ported to the Real Virtuality 3 game engine, which is the game engine behind the ArmA2 and ArmA2: Operation Arrowhead computer games.

I like this part about 64bit...remember VBS2 2.0 is based on RV3....

VBS2 2.0 includes both a 32 and 64 bit version that runs on Windows (Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7) and employs DirectX 9.0. VBS2 is compatible with 64-bit versions of Windows and can be deployed on those systems, and if the 64 bit version of VBS2 2.0 is used, then VBS2 can utilize extended 64-bit addressing.

http://products.bisimulations.com/products/vbs2