No women at all

[1kimon0 10]

well then his logic is flawed because they aren't mutually exclusive. having one is always going to be better than not having either, and in practical terms as well, since you now have female skeletons and animations which can be used to mod in the other half.

Let me explain my logic behind that post, as I didn't do it properly:

If you don't make female characters at all, that can be justified by the lack of resource/time.

However, if you do make female characters and not give them the ability of using weapons and combat-related voice-overs, it's as if you're saying that women are incapable of fighting (or that they shouldn't fight), even if it's due to the aforementioned lack.

You cannot justify that by saying (in the case of A2 and A2OA, for the sake of making it simple) that all of them are civilians, as male civilians can use weapons.

It could be, though, PARTIALLY justified if male civilians couldn't use weapons, either.

The reason I say partially is that I highly doubt factions like the NAPA to not have women in combat roles, and the fact that the USMC does have female aviators.

The fact that they made 8 of "Hooker" units for absolutely no reason doesn't help, too. If they were involved in the official campaign in some way, it could have been justified. Partially, again, as even "Secretary" are ambiguously hooker-ish (http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/File:Arma2_civ_secretary.jpg).

By the way, I must say that I find the frequently-used "women in the US Military aren't in combat roles" argument to be pretty weak.

Supporting roles do participate in combat a lot. They don't just make sandwiches and babies.

The person who answered to the question below doesn't seem to think so, though. He (as I presume it's "he") didn't even bother to explain why they "prefer not having women involved in combat" in their games.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Ask_Bohemia_about_A2OA_-_Answers

Will women [...] hold weapons and drive any vehicle and aircrafts in ARMA2:OA?

No. Not only it would mean a lot of work without any real purpose but we also prefer not having women involved in combat in our games.

[BadHabitz 235]

Aside from resisting posting a chauvinistic joke, I'll inform you that I found interesting items at the bottom of the goggles list in the Virtual Ammobox.

[roberthammer 582]

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m594/froggyluv/running1.jpg :D

thats from

[Bronski 0]

I think BIS will probably release women Civs with the campaign in future (I hope), guess they are not ready as yet to be added (probably to do with animations not finished)

If they don't show up with the release I would say they would probably show up with the campaign as said above.

[dm 9]

Actually...

http://www.arma2base.de/content/images/arma3_Lighting_3.jpg

But that doesn't confirm anything, does it... ;)

[krycek 349]

Seems Al Bundy works at BI.:pReminds me of salamy bonanza in Sahrani.Was friggin' awkard when I had ambient civies in my missions but no women.

I hope they'll be added soon because right now the civ faction isn't very developed unlike A2 one even at release.

Also let's not derail this thread with women soldiers again,the thread author was pretty clear this was about civies.

[Beagle 684]

The older I grow the less interested I am in female models in games...mostly because of the ugly guys in my age playing (with) those.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Beagle

[BadHabitz 235]

There's ladies shades in the goggles section

[motorizer 12]

Despite being one of the best developers out there in some respects, bohemia do come across as one of the most chauvanistic.

It's one thing when a game has a set character who happens to be a man, thats fine...but when they make a huge sanbox where you can play any role you can imagine or tell any story you want, but with the caveat that the character is male, then it's a little sad

With regard to civilians... whilst not so noticeable when it's soldiers in full gear, an island populated entirely by eerily similar men has a bit of an unreal, uncanny valley feel to it...the better that game graphics get, the more noticeable unreal things like his get..

[dm 9]

Despite being one of the best developers out there in some respects, bohemia do come across as one of the most chauvanistic.

It's one thing when a game has a set character who happens to be a man, thats fine...but when they make a huge sanbox where you can play any role you can imagine or tell any story you want, but with the caveat that the character is male, then it's a little sad

And that is based on the assumption that they are limiting the character types to male by choice of "we dont like women" rather than by the limitation of "making technically appropriate female models is a shit load of work in our engine"

[granQ 293]

last time I checked, women normally had two legs, two arms, one head and walk like normal men.. sure if they want to be fancy and move their hips, or men want to be "macho" and walk like cowboys its a bit different... but normally. Its just the same..

[motorizer 12]

And that is based on the assumption that they are limiting the character types to male by choice of "we dont like women" rather than by the limitation of "making technically appropriate female models is a shit load of work in our engine"

Is it though?

To me, and i'm not claiming to be an expert...adding unarmed female walk and run animations to the soldiers animation file (and thats all you'd need really, they dont move much different when using stuff) then getting a female model to call up that animation rather than the male one, doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem...

Everything is work...they'd do it if they wanted to.

Anyway...Im reserving judgement till the full thing is out, they will probably add them with the campaign, how capable they are, we'll have to wait and see...

But this thread is about non combatants so I wont go further off topic.

I fully expect female civs to be added...would be ridiculous without.

[5133p39 14]

Woman skeleton is different from man skeleton, so you'd need to make complete set of new woman animations, which is LOT of work.

http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/BMLwalker.html

[PuFu 4600]

last time I checked, women normally had two legs, two arms, one head and walk like normal men.. sure if they want to be fancy and move their hips, or men want to be "macho" and walk like cowboys its a bit different... but normally. Its just the same..

Woman skeleton is different from man skeleton, so you'd need to make complete set of new woman animations, which is LOT of work.

http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/BMLwalker.html

it is not the same granQ, but then again, thinking about the scope of this, i would agree BI could just use men skeleton with little to no drawback

[clydefrog 3]

Female stances and animations? What like they did in Arma 2? But can't be bothered doing it for Arma 3 as well as making different vehicle weapons etc. etc. for each side? There are many things in this game that just come across as laziness, this is another one of those things unless they do actually plan to do it all at some point and not just leave it like that (and that doesn't include making it DLC that they charge for).

[krycek 349]

We had the same "women are hard to make" argument in A1,I doubt it's that difficult considering there are other more complex things in this game.If they did it in A2 I'm sure it's no rocket science to do these mysterious creatures in A3.

[5133p39 14]

it is not the same granQ, but then again, thinking about the scope of this, i would agree BI could just use men skeleton with little to no drawback

But then again, without modifying all the animations (which is still lot of work) to fit woman body, it wouldn't work - you would get strange distortion in the model, unless you make a "woman" model with same body proportions like man model has, but then it wont look like a woman anymore.

I wish that one day there would be maybe a civilian DLC with more different character models (i mean clothing) for proper variety, including women, that would be great.

[roberthammer 582]

Bikini women dlc - confirmed :D

and yes they could use men skeleton or even A2 women animations

[5133p39 14]

There are little more than 2000 animations in anims_f.pbo - few of them are for animals, but thats really small number compared to the human anims.

Making woman anims means, that you would have to make almost 2000 new animations - and yes, that is difficult because its LOT of work.

Let's hope they will get made one day.

[dm 9]

Is it though?

To me, and i'm not claiming to be an expert...

As someone who knows how much is involved: It really is. There is a lot more involved than most people think about.

it is not the same granQ,

Indeed

but then again, thinking about the scope of this, i would agree BI could just use men skeleton with little to no drawback

And then they face the tirrade of bullshit complaints about "my female character is not feminine enough"/"my female character moves like a man" etc etc...

Female stances and animations? What like they did in Arma 2?

Except the female animation set and underlying technology in A2 was incomplete, so they could not use weapons, drive vehicles, etc etc etc.

There are many things in this game that just come across as laziness, this is another one of those things

I can understand why it would come across like that if you knew nothing about how these systems tie together at the engine level. But to informed people, the amount of work required to do something so "simple" is mind boggling.

[PuFu 4600]

And then they face the tirrade of bullshit complaints about "my female character is not feminine enough"/"my female character moves like a man" etc etc...

fair enough, somehow i forgot about the whining side of things.

[clydefrog 3]

Except the female animation set and underlying technology in A2 was incomplete, so they could not use weapons, drive vehicles, etc etc etc.

Well they shouldn't using weapons or driving cars anyways.

:P

[BadHabitz 235]

Well they shouldn't using weapons or driving cars anyways.

:P

As a joke I was going to ask why we need women in A3 anyway if there are no kitchens in the game. :nerner:

But seriously, adding females would really add to immersion.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

I have no doubt they will be included some time in the future. I think they have been left out so far because they are deeply work in progress with low priority right now.

[motorizer 12]

Legislator;2490609']I have no doubt they will be included some time in the future. I think they have been left out so far because they are deeply work in progress with low priority right now.

To be honest....given the choice of arma 2 style females now, or fully capable ones in a few months time, id go for the second option...so i hope you are right and i hope that means they are taking the time to do them properly rather than rushing them for release