Too many destroyed cars in Altis

[-=seany=- 5]

As I said in the Altis criticism thread. I think also think there are too many old vehicle wrecks. But mainly from a performance point of view. There existence might fit in well with the scenario or campaign story, But I think they could probably get rid of 50% of them and still achieve the same effect. Object counts on maps are a precious commodity.

[progamer 14]

Its not that there are too many cars it's just they are on perfectly good parking places at the airport and other places when they would have likely been shoved into the ditch.

[maturin 12]

As I said in the Altis criticism thread. I think also think there are too many old vehicle wrecks. But mainly from a performance point of view. There existence might fit in well with the scenario or campaign story, But I think they could probably get rid of 50% of them and still achieve the same effect. Object counts on maps are a precious commodity.

What makes a vehicle wreck less precious than any other object? It's vastly more useful as cover and can't really be replaced by anything else.

[kylania 568]

Its not that there are too many cars it's just they are on perfectly good parking places at the airport and other places when they would have likely been shoved into the ditch.

Slap a GameLogic down in the middle of the parking lot and this as it's init:

{_x hideObject true} forEach (nearestObjects [this, ["Wreck_Base_F"], 200]);

Clear parking lot!

[Opticalsnare 12]

Be nice if there was a traffic module so you get random cars driving alround even trucks with trailers and stuff that would be sweet.

[spamurai 3]

People are forgetting that the map is a sandbox. If you dress it up too much with a specific theme in mind, you make it harder to use the island in any other context than ArmA's main story campaign.

Accent details should be applied by the Mission Designer to create atmosphere in just the right amounts needed for his or her specific purpose. So there shouldn't be so many specifically themed ambient details pre-placed on the map (IMO).

Also, surely the extra details like the burnt car wrecks increase the graphical load on a clients system by default. having fewer of these ambient objects keeps the island's various area's lighter and easy to render. Details can be added by a mission designer later if more atmospheric flavor is needed. "Altis" is merely a stage for players to tell their own stories on. You don't want to spend all your budget on stage props if it hinders the actors ability to perform because they get low FPS trying to draw the stage and all of it's passive props into existence.

But the main issue is the dressing the sandbox for a specific atmosphere instead of keeping the environment flexible for more then one context.

It's like having Charnarus covered in pre-placed garage piles, wrecks and general debris for DayZ... but then having to play the regular ArmA 2 campaign with the post-apocalyptic dressing every where.

[kylania 568]

play the regular ArmA 2 campaign with the post-apocalyptic dressing everywhere.

Sadly that's exactly what many people seem to want to do with ArmA2/3. :)

[2nd ranger 282]

I just put my character down in the middle of a crossroads in Neochori (on the western coast of the Pyrgos gulf). There are six hatchback wrecks within fifty metres of where I'm standing.

EDIT: Those were just the wrecks that I could see. There are nine wrecks within fifty metres.

EDIT: I've counted 28 in this town. Not including the six that are clustered together on the outskirts.

EDIT: Sweet jesus, there's a massive car wreck boneyard about 200m northwest of this town. I think Neochori is where cars come to die.

Edited August 27, 2013 by 2nd Ranger

[spamurai 3]

Is it possible... that some sort of script is/was used to populate the island with wrecks, and it's gotten out of hand?

[kylania 568]

Wrecks within 5500m of Neochori:

Edited August 28, 2013 by kylania
624 wrecks in all, that's just over 5 wrecks per km²

[Colossus 2]

I'm afraid I have to agree there is a biiit too many wrecks at certain places. Still, I would be happy if they adjusted the amount a bit, but indifferent if they didn't. All in all not a big issue.

[danny96 80]

I would agree If they removed ALL wrecks but you will still be able to add them by module.

[artsi 11]

I don't mind a wreck here and there, but I also think the overall amount is too many at the moment.

[lev 21]

People are forgetting that the map is a sandbox. If you dress it up too much with a specific theme in mind, you make it harder to use the island in any other context than ArmA's main story campaign.

Accent details should be applied by the Mission Designer to create atmosphere in just the right amounts needed for his or her specific purpose. So there shouldn't be so many specifically themed ambient details pre-placed on the map (IMO).

Also, surely the extra details like the burnt car wrecks increase the graphical load on a clients system by default. having fewer of these ambient objects keeps the island's various area's lighter and easy to render. Details can be added by a mission designer later if more atmospheric flavor is needed. "Altis" is merely a stage for players to tell their own stories on. You don't want to spend all your budget on stage props if it hinders the actors ability to perform because they get low FPS trying to draw the stage and all of it's passive props into existence.

But the main issue is the dressing the sandbox for a specific atmosphere instead of keeping the environment flexible for more then one context.

It's like having Charnarus covered in pre-placed garage piles, wrecks and general debris for DayZ... but then having to play the regular ArmA 2 campaign with the post-apocalyptic dressing every where.

Yes exactly this. Arma is a sandbox game if you add too much story based flavoring then the map becomes unusable for other purposes. Regardless of whether or not a war zone would have this many wrecks, or if mediterranean islands would or how realistic this would be, from a functional standpoint it would be much better to remove most of wrecks and flavoring of that nature and allow modders to add them in. Unless there is some sort of technical issue with placing wrecks (like fire-bug killing everyone), then it would be best to minimize their placement on the default map. A few here and there for unique flavoring would be fine.

[kremator 1065]

Totally disagree with all the 'remove the wrecks' posts. Fine as it is .... nothing to see here.

[dale0404 5]

Got to agree with Kremator, the wrecks are fine as they are.

[dmarkwick 261]

2 things to consider:

1. The setting & environment is a design decision to fit the core of ArmA3 gameplay.

2. An addon could easily be made that swaps all the map wreck models for empty objects. (At the possible expense of losing the wrecks in the editor, depending on how the addon is done.)

[horrorview 10]

I don't mind the excess wrecks (more cover!), but I wouldn't mind having some non-wrecked vehicles scattered around; say, like, parked haphazardly along the city streets, a few in the larger parking lots (hospital/airport). I have to think that while a lot of cars were destroyed in whatever led up to the campaign, an equal or greater number of vehicles would have been abandoned unscathed. I can't wait until we have all of the sandbox assets, as I'd love to set up a nice ol' traffic jam of empty vehicles with a few bombed out ones blocking the roads, etc.

[alx 20]

The problem with removing the wrecks to make the island more "neutral" is that you would logically move on to removing all the collapsed houses, then maybe most of the building sites, then....

However, I agree that toning down the number of wrecks might be a good compromise.

[Smurf 12]

I just thing there are way too many and in some places that are questionable.

[kylania 568]

2. An addon could easily be made that swaps all the map wreck models for empty objects. (At the possible expense of losing the wrecks in the editor, depending on how the addon is done.)

No need for an addon. I already posted the simple code to remove wrecks from the map. Just put down a game logic fill in the code and your city is clean.

[tremanarch 6]

maybe instead of compeltely rotten wrecks - just cars that dont look functional - have missing parts?

[Tyl3r99 41]

yeahh looking at this thread now i realise how many wrecks i see..... hmmm remove some please may help performance lol

[marcai 1]

maybe instead of compeltely rotten wrecks - just cars that dont look functional - have missing parts?

Various different states of decay would be quite nice. Rather than everything being rusted and burnt out, just a few that got left behind/scraped and left by the wayside. Would be pretty cool, imo.

[spamurai 3]

Collapsed buildings have a different effect. They appear to fit in with the scene better, even if it's just 1 building in a cluster of otherwise healthy buildings. Several buildings in a ghost town create their own local atmosphere that looks more natural. I think it's because that, while many of the buildings are the same model, they don't look haphazardly copied and pasted into place. It's not unusual to have buildings appear to be the same pattern. We expect that as observers and we relate to it from our experiences in the real world. It doesn't give an impression that leads to atmosphere breaking questions.

Decor models like the burnt out car are a more specific, recognizable object when compared to a building. A burnt out car makes a statement in the scene, attracts your eye to focus on it much more readily than a building which are typically background details in a scene. It would be different if you encountered a burnt out car, abandoned in an overgrown yard of a collapsed/abandoned house... and then didn't encounter that car model for some time while moving about the island. When you encountered that car, it would look like it was normally expected to be there. However, the car model is so distinctive, that when you encounter it over and over again, you can't help but observe a repeating pattern that gives less of a natural, and more of an artificial purpose for it being there. If you encountered a burnt car in the middle of a town square, surrounded by unmolested scenery; the buildings are intact and colorful, the streets are clean, you can't help but silently ask Why is this car here? What happened to it?. Placing the car like that is supposed get a player to ask questions that help build up the atmosphere of the local scene by getting them to think about what's going on around them.

However, if you then pass by the wreck and turn the corner only to encounter another oddly placed burnt out car that looks exactly the same, you then can't help asking more questions, but now the questions begin to dis-spell the atmosphere. Why is this car here? Why is it the exact same model of car as the previous one? Why so many burnt out cars abandoned here? The scene begins to look unnatural. It's hard to be immersed in an unnatural scene. Suspension of disbelief is broken.

The same goes all the set-piece decor objects. It's not just the copy-pasted burnt out car model, but the shiny and colorful piles of plastic garbage bags too. Some times those start turning up in easily recognizable patterns. They lack variety and look repetitive. There are area's of the map with fields of these strange little piles of bright blue recycling bags scattered every where.... eerily placed as if some unseen entity out there has a plan for them... like it was recycling day on the island, and then "the event" happened and everyone vanished without a trace, except for their little piles of shiny trash bags and burnt out Korean Sport hatchbacks every where.... is this ArmA? or are we in the Twilight Zone.

I have nothing against the burnt out car model. It's just too "unique" of a model to be used as repetitively as it has. Makes the world look artificial, as if the world designer just copy-pasted it all over the island to fill in the gaps with detail. Did the Altian population have a massive revolt against a specific Asian Imported car manufacturer? Is that what started this war?

Edited August 30, 2013 by Spamurai