AI Discussion (dev branch)

[Alwarren 2767]

I think AI does not prior leader's order.

Their priority is engaging enemy unit. They do not disengage even when I order to disengage.

They just keep engaging until shot down and die.

Lost two guys in a campaign mission just because the AI does not want to disengage, or ignores the order to get into a vehicle. They preferred to keep on getting shot :(

[turin turambar 0]

Lost two guys in a campaign mission just because the AI does not want to disengage, or ignores the order to get into a vehicle. They preferred to keep on getting shot :(

Yeah. I know it wouldn't realistic, but I always thought it would be better to gamify it a bit and give exclusive priority to Player's orders, even if that means ignore being shot by bad guys. That, or put a combat behavior where the AI prioritizes being fast to move to get out of conflict is better than being slow, careful and using lots of cover.

[Alwarren 2767]

Yeah. I know it wouldn't realistic, but I always thought it would be better to gamify it a bit and give exclusive priority to Player's orders, even if that means ignore being shot by bad guys. That, or put a combat behavior where the AI prioritizes being fast to move to get out of conflict is better than being slow, careful and using lots of cover.

Agreed. I think if the AI is ordered to disengage, they should do so. However, the "Disengage" option does only work if you previously gave a specific "Engage" or "Engage at Will" order. If I want to make a fast getaway, AI should try to do its best to follow that order, otherwise it becomes frustrating.

[Bouben 3]

5: When i order to engage a enemy Unit, my AI teammate is doing it so stupidly. He starts sometimes to run around, going forward and backing up and doing crazy things. All but not engaging the enemy. This always happens when i put it in engage mode. This what i remember were also happening in the Standard branch also. The AI reacts very crazy to Engage orders.

The engage commands are broken since beta. Check the feedback ticket in my signature.

[Nietsnie 10]

AI is just plain stupid. Group AI is fricking retarded and don't obey your orders. Friendly non-group AI are inaccurate. Enemy AI is super accurate. All of them try to do way too much (calculations, considerations, etc) and can do nothing well. The AI needs a complete overhaul. The system needs to be severely simplified.

Sorry, but at this point (tried playing through the early released Adapt campaign, and cannot get through because of the crappy AI), I'd much rather have COD's AI than Arma 3's AI. I don't care if those AI have predefined paths and objects they can run to. I'd rather have that than Arma's AI that doesn't know what to do. At least COD's AI will shoot back at you. At least they'll run out of the way of, and throw back, a thrown grenade. At least they will run to, take cover behind, and fire from some object that's predefined as "cover". At least they behave somewhat humanly. For all it's complexity, Arma's AI does not behave in a human fashion. They act like badly programmed robots.

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[Bouben 3]

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I usually don't recommend AI mods, as they usually sucks, but bCombat really is a game-changer. BIS should take note from Fabrizio's work. The AI is very quick in their actions and much more human-like. The speed in what they duck to cover when fired upon is something that I was praying for since OFP...

So BIS, players, check the mod out.

EDIT: Oh yeah and it simulates suppression effects on AI too.

[Tyl3r99 41]

I usually don't recommend AI mods, as they usually sucks, but bCombat really is a game-changer. BIS should take note from Fabrizio's work. The AI is very quick in their actions and much more human-like. The speed in what they duck to cover when fired upon is something that I was praying for since OFP...

So BIS, players, check the mod out.

EDIT: Oh yeah and it simulates suppression effects on AI too.

I was going to get this mod definitely but PWS doesn't launch the mod correctly yet so I gotta wait really :(

the amazing thing is fabrizio's mod will only get better as its only a BETA and already changes the AI completely :O

BIS.. theres your next AI techy ;)

[fabrizio_t 58]

May i ask BIS to please address this:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16783

before releasing next stable patch?

It would be great.

[best2nd 10]

Hmm... I'm going to give bCombat a go, beat Survive with it.

But that's not what I really need. I know their strengths and their weaknesses pretty well.

What I really need is to have AI take driving lessons. Seriously, stop popping tires.

[five_seven5-7 56]

AI acts strangely during scouting mission in Adapt, more specifically in the checkpoint. I tried to take down a truck with a rpg using the rangefinder when i fired a rocket and it went above it and didn't get any reaction to a passing rocket through the sky. Or when destroyed the same truck with rpg, the soldiers near the explosion didn't change from relax position to alert one.

Even at night without night vision goggles, they should "adapt" to that attack, finding shelter and start looking for enemies.

Friendly AI: 1.00

Enemy AI: 0.83

Edited January 21, 2014 by Five_Seven5-7

[Zorg_DK 10]

I've played through about half of the campaign. So far every single friendly AI has been killed in every mission. Meh.. Gonna try with cCombat.

[Tonci87 163]

AI acts strangely during scouting mission in Adapt, more specifically in the checkpoint. I tried to take down a truck with a rpg using the rangefinder when i fired a rocket and it went above it and didn't get any reaction to a passing rocket through the sky. Or when destroyed the same truck with rpg, the soldiers near the explosion didn't change from relax position to alert one.

Even at night without night vision goggles, they should "adapt" to that attack, finding shelter and start looking for enemies.

Friendly AI: 1.00

Enemy AI: 0.83

The AI at that checkpoint was very stupid for me too. I guess BIS gave them very low skill to make it easier.

But since we are at this mission: Fabrizio, could you please reduce the AI spotting skills at night? They were able to see me everytime before I could see them.

[best2nd 10]

I've played through about half of the campaign. So far every single friendly AI has been killed in every mission. Meh.. Gonna try with cCombat.

Lol, You really suck at commanding! That's the thing in the campaign, I only lost 1 guy in the entire campaign (I had no NVGs for him, didn't spot the guy on time) but someone (like you) who has no commanding skills is going to have a really hard time.

They should have added the option to be able to refuse to take over Omega.

[Shadowmane 10]

Why don't soldiers low on ammo pick some of nearby body's ?. Also there doesn't seem to be a way to order men under my command to pick up ammo could someone please help ?.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

The AI at that checkpoint was very stupid for me too. I guess BIS gave them very low skill to make it easier.

But since we are at this mission: Fabrizio, could you please reduce the AI spotting skills at night? They were able to see me everytime before I could see them.

This in every military game iv played that features night missions the enemy ( even when not equipped with NV ) can see just as well as in full daylight.

[Alwarren 2767]

Lol, You really suck at commanding! That's the thing in the campaign, I only lost 1 guy in the entire campaign (I had no NVGs for him, didn't spot the guy on time) but someone (like you) who has no commanding skills is going to have a really hard time.

Some people just don't want to be bothered with micro-managing their AI and expect them to have some basic survival instincts by themselves. I expect some autonomous reactions from my AI without me having to place them individually, and certain things like a quick withdrawl are just impossible since the AI doesn't react to commands sometimes, like getting into a truck pronto.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Some people just don't want to be bothered with micro-managing their AI and expect them to have some basic survival instincts by themselves. I expect some autonomous reactions from my AI without me having to place them individually, and certain things like a quick withdrawl are just impossible since the AI doesn't react to commands sometimes, like getting into a truck pronto.

i might sound trolling, but are you new to ofp/arma series? Commanding AI was from ground on, one of most coolest and beloved features in series. It takes time, to get used to it no doubt, like everything in arma series, with its flaws, but when you figure out, how to command them, it is pretty enjoyable. It is something like chess, you move your figures at the desk. Tactical shooter, recuires tactical thinking, not just running with your small squad infront of enemy MG's, and then wondering, why everyone dies?

Actually a buddy of mine, was always lone wolf, leting bots at spawnpoint, and going solo, while i was enjoying command my squad. Not long ago, he told me, he played some vietnam mod in arma 2, commanding bots, and was really impressed, how actually cool it is, (not without its flaws again). And since then, we are playing 2 squad missiong, where we are the leaders, and enjoying the experience.

[fanboizm in]

Arma is really a complex game, with lots of uniques features, overambitions like some say, and therefor, there must be it's weakpoints. Instead of polishing few features, it requiers to poilsh them all. Maybe BI has to cut at least half of everything, therefore improving the quality of every single feature. Maybe there is something else, no idea. But i have spend 600 hours, enjoying all it's various features, and i'm not even close to geting tired.

[/fanboizm out]

Edited January 21, 2014 by NeuroFunker

[Varanon 892]

Commanding AI was from ground on, one of most coolest and beloved features in series.

Yes. Commanding them, like, flank left, attack... but they should have some sense of self-preservation. I don't want to tell them where to go for cover and when. They should take cover when they are under fire without you telling them first. That's what micro-management is. That works in a real time strategy game, but not here.

[fanboizm in]

Arma is really a complex game, with lots of uniques features, overambitions like some say, and therefor, there must be it's weakpoints. Instead of polishing few features, it requiers to poilsh them all. Maybe BI has to cut at least half of everything, therefore improving the quality of every single feature. Maybe there is something else, no idea. But i have spend 600 hours, enjoying all it's various features, and i'm not even close to geting tired.

[/fanboizm out]

Honestly, what the hell are you doing there ? You defend a problem by saying you are having fun with the game ? Well, me too, I also got 400+ hours in it. But there is still a lot of room for improvement. And people that bring that up are providing feedback. You should keep that in mind before you talk down people that bring up honest, constructive criticism. Such constructive criticism is far more valuable than blindly defending a problem with "I have fun in the game".

[NeuroFunker 11]

Honestly, what the hell are you doing there ? You defend a problem by saying you are having fun with the game ? Well, me too, I also got 400+ hours in it. But there is still a lot of room for improvement. And people that bring that up are providing feedback. You should keep that in mind before you talk down people that bring up honest, constructive criticism. Such constructive criticism is far more valuable than blindly defending a problem with "I have fun in the game".

either it's me, or there is really no conctructive critism at all. AS for me, conctructive critism is: http://feedback.arma3.com/my_view_page.php, anything else is just a kick on deadmans corpse imo.

[Alwarren 2767]

i might sound trolling,

You do sound trolling because you are. As usual, you don't even make an effort to understand what I am saying, you just feel the need to contradict because someone said something that might have been criticism. See also below.

but are you new to ofp/arma series?

I've been around since Flashpoint, thank you. That's only a decade, so you might call me "new".

Commanding AI was from ground on, one of most coolest and beloved features in series. It takes time, to get used to it no doubt, like everything in arma series, with its flaws, but when you figure out, how to command them, it is pretty enjoyable. It is something like chess, you move your figures at the desk. Tactical shooter, recuires tactical thinking, not just running with your small squad infront of enemy MG's, and then wondering, why everyone dies?

You are missing the point entirely. It's not about being able to command your AI. It's about HAVING to micro-manage their every move because otherwise they die. I expect a certain amount of autonomy from my AI. I want them to be able to survive a battle without telling them to go take cover, and I don't want to lose them because they're too dump to disengage when I tell them to. If I command them to enter a vehicle under fire, they won't react, it will take them painful minutes to get into the chopper that just landed.

The point is that the survival rate of AI is slim UNLESS you micro-manage them. The ability to command them is great, it should give you a lot more tactical options, but unfortunately, the truth is quite different.

[fanboizm in]

Arma is really a complex game, with lots of uniques features, overambitions like some say, and therefor, there must be it's weakpoints. Instead of polishing few features, it requiers to poilsh them all. Maybe BI has to cut at least half of everything, therefore improving the quality of every single feature. Maybe there is something else, no idea. But i have spend 600 hours, enjoying all it's various features, and i'm not even close to geting tired.

[/fanboizm out]

Do you think I am stupid? No need to patronize me. I have almost 500 hours in Arma 3, I have release a couple of addons and missions, and I have released a comprehensive toolset for modding the game in Blender, including direct RTM support. I am not an idiot. I have spent countless hours getting behind things, and there have been old-time modders of Arma 2 times that have asked ME for advice on new features. I have spent countless hours wiriting stuff, modelling stuff, and doing stuff for this game. I am sick of getting the "are you new?" and "it's not a game for you" type of card slapped into my face every time I say that there MIGHT just be an issue with the game. I care about this game.

And I am really growing tired of your fanboyism. It isn't helping the game evolve when every time someone dares to utter something critical that you fanboys come barging in to safe the day. You are defending bugs and broken features because you are fanboys,. Well I got news for you, I am a fanboy too, but I know better than to go into denial about things that may need improvement.

Micro-managing should be a FEATURE, not a necessity. Right now, it is the latter.That is an issue that just MIGHT be in need of fixing, blind denial will not make it any different.

So please spare me that self-righteousness.

[Shadowmane 10]

i might sound trolling, but are you new to ofp/arma series? Commanding AI was from ground on, one of most coolest and beloved features in series. It takes time, to get used to it no doubt, like everything in arma series, with its flaws, but when you figure out, how to command them, it is pretty enjoyable. It is something like chess, you move your figures at the desk. Tactical shooter, recuires tactical thinking, not just running with your small squad infront of enemy MG's, and then wondering, why everyone dies?

I think what hes pointing out is that the AI could use some work. As an example I just played a mission in which one of my guys ran out of ammo but then I notice hes standing right next to a dead enemy with a weapon and ammo available yet he doesn't pick it up. Also it can be frustrating when you order your men to do something such as mount a truck then rather than doing it quickly they behave as if there casually getting onto the number 42 bus for a ride into town.

[windies 11]

I think what hes pointing out is that the AI could use some work. As an example I just played a mission in which one of my guys ran out of ammo but then I notice hes standing right next to a dead enemy with a weapon and ammo available yet he doesn't pick it up. Also it can be frustrating when you order your men to do something such as mount a truck then rather than doing it quickly they behave as if there casually getting onto the number 42 bus for a ride into town.

Blasphemy!!! HERETIC!!! J/K, that's pretty much the exact point he is making. I don't understand how you, Neurofunker, can say you support criticism by pointing to a tool that is used for critical feedback and then get all snippy and bent out of shape when someone does the exact same thing on the forums. Double standard much or just deep denial? I'll let you decide.

[Shadowmane 10]

Blasphemy!!! HERETIC!!! J/K, that's pretty much the exact point he is making. I don't understand how you, Neurofunker, can say you support criticism by pointing to a tool that is used for critical feedback and then get all snippy and bent out of shape when someone does the exact same thing on the forums. Double standard much or just deep denial? I'll let you decide.

Err I was speaking directly to Neurofunker about his response to the other guy I wasn't defending him. As for being snippy iv made a grand total of 3 posts now 4 I don't think Iv much of an opportunity for being snippy yet lol.

[Varanon 892]

either it's me, or there is really no conctructive critism at all. AS for me, conctructive critism is: http://feedback.arma3.com/my_view_page.php, anything else is just a kick on deadmans corpse imo.

So, to you, only the feedback tracker is constructive? Well, I checked and I reported 25 issues. You reported... Let me count.... One.

If someone complains about how the AI is not self sufficient enough, it is actually FAR more consttuctive than flat out denying the problem.

What you are doing is nailing the parrot to it's perch, rattling the cage and saying it's still moving...

Sent from my Xperia Z1

[Tyl3r99 41]

come on guys before a mod comes and does their thing

[NeuroFunker 11]

You do sound trolling because you are. As usual, you don't even make an effort to understand what I am saying, you just feel the need to contradict because someone said something that might have been criticism. See also below.

I've been around since Flashpoint, thank you. That's only a decade, so you might call me "new".

like i said, i'm not.

You are missing the point entirely. It's not about being able to command your AI. It's about HAVING to micro-manage their every move because otherwise they die. I expect a certain amount of autonomy from my AI. I want them to be able to survive a battle without telling them to go take cover, and I don't want to lose them because they're too dump to disengage when I tell them to. If I command them to enter a vehicle under fire, they won't react, it will take them painful minutes to get into the chopper that just landed.

Yes, i might, no doubt, but you see? This is more of a useful critism, then saying: i don't want my man dying on battlefield. Even though, thats not enough, it is not something devs would see, unless they do read every post here.

The point is that the survival rate of AI is slim UNLESS you micro-manage them. The ability to command them is great, it should give you a lot more tactical options, but unfortunately, the truth is quite different.

I agree, there is no limit for perfection, ofcourse there could be something new, usefull, better working. Im not claiming to be a military expert, but you are the leader, they are listening to you! On the battlefield, mid combat, people tend to act not adequate, freezing while being fire on, especially being at combat for first time, geting overagressive, forgeting to take cover, presetning theirselves for incoming enemy fire, ignoring squad leader commands and many more difficulties, similar to what we are having in arma with bots. Havn't you tought about that?

Do you think I am stupid? No need to patronize me. I have almost 500 hours in Arma 3, I have release a couple of addons and missions, and I have released a comprehensive toolset for modding the game in Blender, including direct RTM support. I am not an idiot. I have spent countless hours getting behind things, and there have been old-time modders of Arma 2 times that have asked ME for advice on new features. I have spent countless hours wiriting stuff, modelling stuff, and doing stuff for this game. I am sick of getting the "are you new?" and "it's not a game for you" type of card slapped into my face every time I say that there MIGHT just be an issue with the game. I care about this game.

never said you are, and i do respect people, making something useful for my fav game, no doubt. And once again, i must point on feedback tracker, that not a holy bible, but this is most useful thing, to point on devs, what YOU want to be changing, along adding links to your signature.

Micro-managing should be a FEATURE, not a necessity. Right now, it is the latter.That is an issue that just MIGHT be in need of fixing, blind denial will not make it any different.

So please spare me that self-righteousness.

Micro managing, i have no idea what you mean by this, care to explain, how do you imagine it and it should work?