AI Discussion (dev branch)

[NeuroFunker 11]

Another thing about AI and accuracy, lots of people were angry about AI, still being deliver a headshot when suppressed under fire or even while geting hit few times. I hope error calculator includes this as well, if AI is being under suppression fire or injured.

[klamacz 448]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Why was it chosen that audio and visual properties of a weapon determine how much aiming error the AI has on consecutive shots? Would it not be saner to have config properties for this on the weapons and maybe a multiplier on the ammo/attachments instead of basing it off on audio and visual properties so you can tweak how the AI behaves without affecting the visibility of the weapon?

Currently as it's described, silent weapons will automatically make AI less prone to error and loud ones more. What happens in cases where you need to have a silent weapon with huge aiming error? Or a loud one with no aiming error? What if you actually want the AI to have worse aim when consecutively firing your weapon instead of the same or better?

Config parameter was planned. This part is controversial so design still can change, depending on range of tests our beloved QA and You guys are doing.

Another thing about AI and accuracy, lots of people were angry about AI, still being deliver a headshot when suppressed under fire or even while geting hit few times. I hope error calculator includes this as well, if AI is being under suppression fire or injured.

Currently, it doesn't take injures or suppression into account.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Currently, it doesn't take injures or suppression into account.

ok, then is a hope it will in nearest future. :)

[-Coulum- 35]

Notes (not exhaustive; documentation in progress):

• Firing the weapon no longer increases error; instead, it decreases the error or doesn't change it (depending on audio and visual attributes of the weapon).
  
• If the weapon is loud and very visible (e.g., an MG with big muzzle flash), the error doesn't decrease; whereas, shooting a normal rifle will decrease the error.
  
• Losing the target due to obstacle (e.g., foliage) and switching targets now drastically increases the error
  
• Calculation of error direction was changed to be more fluent: AI soldiers should not 'shake' their aim anymore; instead, they should behave more akin to 'looking around'
  
• 
  

Cool thanks for the details. One question I have is what happens when an ai sees you, shoots at you, looses sight of you and then regains sight of you? Is his "error" immediately reverted back to what it was just before he lost sight of you?

The fact that the size and loudness of the weapon make a difference seems a bit... weird, but I guess you can make reasons as to why it makes sense. But another thing I think would logically have an effect is optics. Right now the error seems well calibrated assuming the ai is using some form of magnification. But when using ironsights or holosights I think the error should be even more. Just a suggestion. Effect of optics on ai accuracy is definitely an issue I think needs addressing in someway at least.

Currently, it doesn't take injures or suppression into account.

You would be a GOD if you ever make this happen.

Ai being effected by incoming fire (not only impacts but sonic cracks of bullets passing by) is one of my number one wishes for the arma series ever since I started playing. There would be very little better than telling my buddies to lay down fire and knowing that it is actually effecting the ai, allowing us to manoeuvre better.

Anyhow good work, its really cool to see arma ai slowly, but surely, progress. Keep it up!

[NeuroFunker 11]

well working on AI were one of BI promises actually :)

[froggyluv 2136]

Ai being effected by incoming fire (not only impacts but sonic cracks of bullets passing by) is one of my number one wishes for the arma series ever since I started playing. There would be very little better than telling my buddies to lay down fire and knowing that it is actually effecting the ai, allowing us to manoeuvre better.

Anyhow good work, its really cool to see arma ai slowly, but surely, progress. Keep it up!

This, this and more this. We need this bad for co-op. Sure I'd play all PvP in which this suppresion happens naturally but those servers that I once played have emptied out. SP has the excellent Bcombat and TPW which do this but we sorely need it for Co-op AI. Memorable firefights is at the heart of what many of us seek and this is an essential ingredient.

[2nd ranger 282]

Yeah it's a pretty poor show when a war game that prides itself on realism doesn't incorporate suppression, one of the most basic building blocks of small unit tactics. At the very least, restore the Arma 2 model where an AI would at least suffer reduced accuracy and ROF after taking a hit or near miss.

[dnk 13]

Could've sworn an early teaser vid for Arma *2* claimed there'd be suppression and showed it. Guess that went nowhere... mods picked it up at least.

[-Coulum- 35]

Could've sworn an early teaser vid for Arma *2* claimed there'd be suppression and showed it. Guess that went nowhere... mods picked it up at least.

Well arma 2 did have suppression, I guess. Technically. Basically if bullets hit objects or the ground within half a metre of the ai they would suffer massive aiming penalties and I believe they would try to seek cover (with about as much urgency as arma ai can muster). It wasn't well balanced (ai aiming penalty lasted far to long) and far to hard to trigger (you pretty much had to hit the thin bar of grass right under the ai). Most often you were more likely to kill a unit outright than to suppress him. All in all it wasn't a feature that you could really put to use.

Basically for suppression to be a true part of the game you need sonic cracks/bullets within 2 m or so of the ai to trigger the effect and the effects to be short but immediate severe aiming penalties (ie "increased dynamic calculated error") combined with slow, long term morale degradation (leading to further aiming penalties (ie. lower "aimingaccuracy skill") and even surrender/fleeing). To put it a cherry on top, add cover seeking and lower stances and you've got a good system. Mods show it works well enough. BCombat especially as of late.

At the very least, restore the Arma 2 model where an AI would at least suffer reduced accuracy and ROF after taking a hit or near miss.

Arma 3 ai does suffer a slight accuracy loss after being hit in the arms (at least since I last checked a couple months ago). Its just very small and usually made up for when they go prone. And when they do their little bob upon being hit it does mess up their shot quite a bit if they try to shoot simultaneously. Not saying its good enough but they don't totally ignore being hit. What I believe needs to happen is that millisecond of inaccuracy while bobbing must be extended for 2 maybe even 3 seconds longer.

Anyhow just the fact that the devs have acknowledged that there is lack of reaction to incoming fire makes me happy. One day...

[msy 22]

There is a really serious big problem for AI: They like fighting against enemies tooooooo addictively to learn how to hit and run (yes it means retreat)...

I have pressed ~-2-1 + ~-3-2 + ~-3-6 + ~-1-1 to hope they can follow me, but they wouldn't :( , Then XX KIA...

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16898

Edited January 18, 2014 by msy

[Undeceived 392]

There is a really serious big problem for AI: They like fighting against enemies tooooooo addictively to learn how to hit and run (yes it means retreat)...

I have pressed ~-2-1 + ~-3-2 + ~-3-6 + ~-1-1 to hope they can follow me, but they wouldn't :( , Then XX KIA...

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16898

This is so true! It is one of the most frustrating things in situations like the one you described... :(

Please BI, have mercy and find a way to solve this! There must be a way to make the AI run if the commanding player \ mission designer decides so.

In OFP you still could solve this by setting the behaviour back to AWARE and they would really switch to it and thus keep tight formation.

But today they change their behaviour automatically, which is good of course. But if under fire or if they were under fire and still know about enemies (even if they're far away) there's no way to make them stick to you.

Btw, there is an open ticket for this issue already:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3920

[h - 169]

They also still at times seem to stuck on perma-combatmode which makes things even more annoying because moving around gets incredibly tedious as they do it with their "Go! - I'll cover" dance.

I don't really get why the AI in player lead group has to have auto-combatmode, especially when you can't tell them to snap out of it..

[Variable 322]

They also still at times seem to stuck on perma-combatmode which makes things even more annoying because moving around gets incredibly tedious as they do it with their "Go! - I'll cover" dance.

I don't really get why the AI in player lead group has to have auto-combatmode, especially when you can't tell them to snap out of it..

This issue has been plaging Arma for a very long time now. for me, it's the number 1 frustration cause when having to manage AI. I think it must be a priority for a design change.

[f2k sel 164]

AI doing it's own thing is fine but you should always be able to override it and get them to do what they're told.

Right now we can reveal units but can't make them forget units, if reveal could take negative numbers that would help.

[Bouben 3]

Diamond formation, guys.

[-Coulum- 35]

In general the ai is too caught up with the enemy and not focused enough on keeping themselves alive. Basically between trying to stay in formation and trying to shoot the enemy, ai rarely has a chance to go find cover. However, in a game as unforgiving as arma it should be one of the first things they try to do if the enemy is not closer than 20m. It always erks me when my guy sees an enemy fireteam at 100m while in the middle of the road. I am begging him to come to the other side and to safety with me, but no, he wants to kill baddies. Despite an entire fireteam opening up he continues to shoot rather than running to the buildings on the side of the road. If he is lucky he gets one before he is pulverised. Annoying as hell.

Bcombat does well to try and fix the ai's priorities (though I don't think it works to make them obey better). I really hope bis see the positive results of this and try to recreate it, in the far future, when they are able to try and improve the ai behaviour. Unfortunately probably not any time soon. They already have a lot on their plate.

[h - 169]

Diamond formation, guys.

Which does nothing to help with this.

And yes, I have tried this.

[Bouben 3]

In general the ai is too caught up with the enemy and not focused enough on keeping themselves alive. Basically between trying to stay in formation and trying to shoot the enemy, ai rarely has a chance to go find cover. However, in a game as unforgiving as arma it should be one of the first things they try to do if the enemy is not closer than 20m. It always erks me when my guy sees an enemy fireteam at 100m while in the middle of the road. I am begging him to come to the other side and to safety with me, but no, he wants to kill baddies. Despite an entire fireteam opening up he continues to shoot rather than running to the buildings on the side of the road. If he is lucky he gets one before he is pulverised. Annoying as hell.

Bcombat does well to try and fix the ai's priorities (though I don't think it works to make them obey better). I really hope bis see the positive results of this and try to recreate it, in the far future, when they are able to try and improve the ai behaviour. Unfortunately probably not any time soon. They already have a lot on their plate.

Agreed.

[Tankbuster 1747]

There is a really serious big problem for AI: They like fighting against enemies tooooooo addictively to learn how to hit and run (yes it means retreat)...

I have pressed ~-2-1 + ~-3-2 + ~-3-6 + ~-1-1 to hope they can follow me, but they wouldn't :( , Then XX KIA...

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16898

Oh yes, voted up. This coupled with their default uber shooter accuracy and immense body armour, it's a wonder anyone plays against the AI at all.

[best2nd 10]

Diamond formation, guys.

Nope. FILE is more effective.

Note, that if enemies are dangerously close they will neutralize them first... Or die trying...

NOTE: This trick is valid for non-combat situation when you keep your guys in either COMBAT or STEALTH mode. Any other formation AI will do their bounding-overwatch but when FILE is selected they will try to follow you.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Best2nd
Added a note

[Pillord 10]

Why does the AI always return to formation?

I have opend a issue at feedbacktracker here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16893

There is a mission with .fsm file attached.

I want to create a new formation.fsm but i can't change the formation, cause the AI always move back to formation.

Next I saw for the Leader moveToCompleted is always false.

I think this is happend by wrong returned position in expectedDestination.

I reported an issue on feddbacktracker with mission here http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=16832

I hope this is the right place.

[Bouben 3]

Nope. FILE is more effective.

Note, that if enemies are dangerously close they will neutralize them first... Or die trying...

NOTE: This trick is valid for non-combat situation when you keep your guys in either COMBAT or STEALTH mode. Any other formation AI will do their bounding-overwatch but when FILE is selected they will try to follow you.

Have not noticed difference between FILE and DIAMOND in terms of AI keeping pace with player, but might be.

[fortun 14]

Changed to the devbranch yesterday.

I do not use any mod or such. I think the AI was a little better. But some things that i noticed was

1: Seems like sometimes the BLUFOR AI can't recognize the OPFOR AI, so it just stares at the enemy and does nothing. I have even seen my blufor walking up to the Enemy standing in the face of him (using "allowdamage false") and just aiming at him and not shoot. This have happend in my mission 4 of 10 times. (My mission is just simple and has no AI configuration of Mods in it)

2: This also happend in a village BLU is supposed to free a hostage from. One of the OPF AI just stares at us from his position and just wait until we kill him.

3: My BLUFOR group mate (AI) that is with me on the mission (its a coop mission that im testing with AI) have several times even though the enemy is near and nothing in the way, not reported any enemy. Its like he is not seeing the enemy. They have shooten at him from like 20 meters away and he just stands there, not reporting any Enemy or shooting back at them. Its like an invisble wall or something that does so he can't see them. This happens like 1/10 AI enemy he meets.

4: Also noticed that my Group AI has hard time spotting a enemy even though its free view to the enemy. Then i always need to order him closer until he spots them. This could be like 40+ meters away and medium/good view of the enemy. Before in the Original (Not dev branch) this never happend to me as it does now. These things started since i updated to dev branch i think.

5: When i order to engage a enemy Unit, my AI teammate is doing it so stupidly. He starts sometimes to run around, going forward and backing up and doing crazy things. All but not engaging the enemy. This always happens when i put it in engage mode. This what i remember were also happening in the Standard branch also. The AI reacts very crazy to Engage orders.

Thats some feedback from me on the latest Dev branch update. These are the things that im having most problems with about AI for now.

TL:DR

*AI have hard time seeing enemy even if they are in clear view or enemy shooting at them

*AI can sometimes just stare at enemy and not doing anything even if you move up to them, they just stare and not shooting, just waiting to get killed

*Ordering AI to engage is just going to get him killed, just doing crazy stuffs and moving back and forward not attacking at all

[JWLEE 1]

I think AI does not prior leader's order.

Their priority is engaging enemy unit. They do not disengage even when I order to disengage.

They just keep engaging until shot down and die.

[antoineflemming 14]

AI is just plain stupid. Group AI is fricking retarded and don't obey your orders. Friendly non-group AI are inaccurate. Enemy AI is super accurate. All of them try to do way too much (calculations, considerations, etc) and can do nothing well. The AI needs a complete overhaul. The system needs to be severely simplified.

Sorry, but at this point (tried playing through the early released Adapt campaign, and cannot get through because of the crappy AI), I'd much rather have COD's AI than Arma 3's AI. I don't care if those AI have predefined paths and objects they can run to. I'd rather have that than Arma's AI that doesn't know what to do. At least COD's AI will shoot back at you. At least they'll run out of the way of, and throw back, a thrown grenade. At least they will run to, take cover behind, and fire from some object that's predefined as "cover". At least they behave somewhat humanly. For all it's complexity, Arma's AI does not behave in a human fashion. They act like badly programmed robots.