Improving Ragdoll

[toiletguy 1]

Is this how we drop dead in real life? I'd would love to see an improvement on restriction of bones.

[kremator 1065]

I don't know .... I've never been shot before! Anyone ?

[dmarkwick 261]

No bouncing or sliding, it seems quite good already. Odd poses don't bother me, because they happen too.

[TGxAltair 10]

Considering this is the Beta, I think the ragdoll is quite good at the moment as DMarkwick says.

[Smurf 12]

Odd poses don't bother me, because they happen too.

But they happen way often than not.

[Azzur33 1]

The "flat hand" thing bothers me. Ragdoll is mostly ok, but sometimes it produces some .. very interesting results. It's just the hand that looks pretty silly, always.

[dmarkwick 261]

But they happen way often than not.

I find it depends on whether the unit is stationary or not. If the unit us walking or running, all seems to be good, but if the unit is just standing, there is often a repetitive knees-bent pose you're right. I might suggest a random "push" to prevent it.

[Fuse 1]

It could be improved, but I think they already do a decent job. It's miles beyond what they had at the start of alpha.

[toiletguy 1]

I find it depends on whether the unit is stationary or not. If the unit us walking or running, all seems to be good, but if the unit is just standing, there is often a repetitive knees-bent pose you're right. I might suggest a random "push" to prevent it.

Most of odd poses came from stationary units. To make these corpses more realistic, a powerful kinetic energy from the rounds will solve this problem. Is it possible to mod the bullet physics power?

[raven_jj 1]

In most cases they fall quite naturally, but there are situations, where the kne is bent the other way, thigh can turn sideways at impossible angles (feet parallel to the ground), sometimes I've even encountered a whole lower section of the body turned 180 to the upper parts. I also agree, that giving small directional push could work wonders. I've tested it in Stalker, when I was playing with weapon configs.

[dmarkwick 261]

Most of odd poses came from stationary units. To make these corpses more realistic, a powerful kinetic energy from the rounds will solve this problem. Is it possible to mod the bullet physics power?

I don't believe a push from the round is required, a round's incoming direction often has no bearing on the movement of the object. I guess any arbitrary directional push would be fine. But, I guess whatever is most appropriate will work.

Edited July 3, 2013 by DMarkwick

[roberthammer 582]

They could make those ragdolls more heavier and fix those legs/fingers - that should do it

[Scoggs 1]

I think they actually got worse in the transition from alpha to beta. Before when shot and killed it seemed like there was minor kickback. Now they kinda just flop over with no momentum even when walking.

[bigpickle 0]

I think the ragdoll is poor/average, but the reason it seems sub par is because there are no corresponding animations linking to the ragdoll effect, like no stumbles when shot in the legs, no spin when shot in the shoulder etc.

I foresaw this coming and because new people are used to ragdoll from other games such as GTA's use of the euphoria engine. While for us aging arma players who have done the full series its a welcome addition but is it as good as the current standards for ragdoll in the gaming world? negative. I get this horrible feeling that the horrid bobbing up and down that happens when you wound AI is as good as it gets, meaning newcomers will complain about it because it doesn't even come close to today's ragdoll gaming standards.

[Koukotsu 2]

I think the physics in general could use a lot of work.

I'm particularly disappointed in the rigidbody physics behaviors, such as the empty barrels that simply fall over and sink into the ground when hit by gunfire or an explosion, or the plastic crates in the Agia Marina canal that just unceremoniously sink straight down when shot...

(In reality gunfire doesn't tend to knock heavy objects such as empty metal barrels over at all of course, but a decent sized explosion sure would.)

I was really hoping to witness objects getting launched through the air and bouncing/rolling across the terrain when a physics force is applied to them. (Players/A.I. too :bounce3:)

Edited July 3, 2013 by Koukotsu

[sproyd 2]

Considering this is the Beta, I think the ragdoll is quite good at the moment as DMarkwick says.

YEah agreed - I wouldn't complain it seems pretty good. People fall in awkward ways. Of course its not perfect but don't complain about it.

[Masharra 10]

YEah agreed - I wouldn't complain it seems pretty good. People fall in awkward ways. Of course its not perfect but don't complain about it.

What he probably means to say is to make sure you keep up the feedback on it and get lots of references perhaps google to support what you think is a good system of ragdoll.

[MadocComadrin 12]

Before when shot and killed it seemed like there was minor kickback. Now they kinda just flop over with no momentum even when walking.

That's sort-of because there is relatively little momentum (compared to how much control you have over your legs), even when walking*. When running, you've Fixing/tweaking bone restrictions is one thing (to prevent body parts going the wrong way). Another would be trying to mimic how people actually collapse as they lose strength in the legs.

*When walking, you're using the friction of your feet to anchor you as you push and pull your body forward, so you're really not going to get much movement upon collapse. Compare this to running, where you're in the air for part of the time, and are using your feet more as a push (and a slight pull) to keep up your velocity.

Bigpickle makes the point about the corresponding animations. This would be extremely helpful for walking and standing ragdolls.

[dsi24 12]

I think the ragdoll is poor/average, but the reason it seems sub par is because there are no corresponding animations linking to the ragdoll effect, like no stumbles when shot in the legs, no spin when shot in the shoulder etc.

I foresaw this coming and because new people are used to ragdoll from other games such as GTA's use of the euphoria engine. While for us aging arma players who have done the full series its a welcome addition but is it as good as the current standards for ragdoll in the gaming world? negative. I get this horrible feeling that the horrid bobbing up and down that happens when you wound AI is as good as it gets, meaning newcomers will complain about it because it doesn't even come close to today's ragdoll gaming standards.

Rockstar's use of Euphoria is in a tier of its own, no other game comes close.

[bigpickle 0]

There are some that are on a par, but regardless the current system is quite a way below industry standards

[toiletguy 1]

The ragdoll needs a restriction. Impossible knees-bent and weird "<" shape with 360 degrees torso is not acceptable since it ruins the immersion. There must be a way to solve this, add the kinetic force to the bullet or restrict the bones of the body.

[dmarkwick 261]

The ragdoll needs a restriction. Impossible knees-bent and weird "<" shape with 360 degrees torso is not acceptable since it ruins the immersion. There must be a way to solve this, add the kinetic force to the bullet or restrict the bones of the body.

The way I've seen it solved in other games is to give a "twitch" to static characters' joints so they have a random movements to prevent this.

[sproyd 2]

Let's look at this from a realism point of view. The only time you are going to "drop like liquid" is if something penetrates your upper spinal cord or brain. I'd say the vast majority of Arma deaths would come from trauma to the torso or limbs. In which case typically the wounded would fall down in a semi-controlled manner i.e. they might fall back as their legs fail to support them which gives credence to the case for a small vector push to solve limb twisting.

Ideally with an injury system we'd have wounded unable to move and slowly bleeding out but not insta-dead. You guys are going to say WTF but Far Cry 2 had the best injury system I've ever seen. Combined with Dylan's realism mod its the most realistic I've ever used in any game - basically seriously injured players would collapse and then crawl and prop themselves up against a tree/wall often out of your vision (Talking about AI). Then eventually if left alone they would bleed out and die. However, if not under fire, other AI would hoist them over their shoulders and walk them to safety. I got killed many times by AI that I had critically injured and they had managed to shoot me with a sidearm propped up on a tree. However, the medic system was magic-syringe so not all perfect.

[marcai 1]

It's been a while since I played a shooter other than Arma, and have spent the last few hours on Left 4 Dead 2, and was amazed at the varied, animated and 'believable' (in the context of the game) transitions from death to ragdoll in that game after playing Arma since Alpha. The addition of short animation between the two states really does make them feel far more believable. Of course, they're of an entirely different nature in a zombie-shooter and the dev's time is limited, but the principle remains that it'd be very cool to expand upon.

[sqb-sma 66]

Some simple things that would make the ragdolls look better:

* Restrict back bending to make the back slightly more stiff than reality

* Add more weight to the lower abdomen and head

* Use a slightly curled hand model rather than the current cardboard cut out hand

More complex things:

* Add stretch characteristics to major "bones" in the skeleton, provide rotational resistance through these stretch values (same method as F.E.A.R)

* Transition from animation to ragdoll with appropriate momentum for independent body parts

* Ragdoll animations (such as Red Orchestra 2)