Fatigue effects

[Masharra 10]

So surely on the fatigue issue a balance or trade off between fun/realism is needed, im sure BIS want people to enjoy their game especially as they have said many times they want to draw in new players, these new players are gonna come from non niche games more thank likely.

Its a risky game drawing in new players without alienating the old. We shall see how it works out.

[bigpickle 0]

very true, but i guess that's what give and take is all about.

Dmarkwick is very right with his previous post, i think it point 1 through 3 hit the nail on the head.

[shark-attack 2]

@Masharra

Us Brits are good but not that good mate.

Re-read my comment and you will see I am with you on the ludicrous load out capacity which is currently in place.

[Alwarren 2767]

People don't sit and check what recommendations are what before doing a job, they have a job to do and usually will do it regardless. Then reap the rewards later while sitting there wondering why there backs or knees are fucked.

I am sorry, this isn't about recommendations. If you recommend someone not to run at 90 miles per hour, it doesn't matter if he wants to follow this recommendation or not, he will still not run 90 mph because it is just simply physically impossible. The same goes for carrying 150 kg and still sprinting. It just is not possible.

[ratszo 17]

I don't think the system as it is now is good. You can carry too much. And you do tire to quickly even from small loads. You should be able to run longer, but carry less

I agree, if volume is correct --a 20 litre pack can only carry 20 litres full pack, and bandoliers and pockets only carry small units of ammo.

A very interesting thread. Alot to consider.

As a PvP player, a realistic logistics train is key to a good, balanced, tactical fight.

--as another poster pointed out," ..., if you can sprint with a pick-up truck on your back...." --what's the point of logistics?

How someone gets 10 rpg rounds to a choke-point matters a whole lot in PvP; Perhaps less in coop, and not at all in single player.

[liquidpinky 11]

I am sorry, this isn't about recommendations. If you recommend someone not to run at 90 miles per hour, it doesn't matter if he wants to follow this recommendation or not, he will still not run 90 mph because it is just simply physically impossible. The same goes for carrying 150 kg and still sprinting. It just is not possible.

Taking it too far there, my tool rucksack is around 40kg, well over the recommended 33 from those documents.

Feel free to twist that about to your own needs, again like those who did shabby in game tests that only suited the answers they wanted to hear.

If I have told you once, I have told you a million times about exaggerating.

[Masharra 10]

Taking it too far there, my tool rucksack is around 40kg, well over the recommended 33 from those documents.

Feel free to twist that about to your own needs, again like those who did shabby in game tests that only suited the answers they wanted to hear.

If I have told you once, I have told you a million times about exaggerating.

Care to reference the document that recommends 33?

Also recommends 33 for what?

It has been a while since Ive read the docs so I may have missed it.

Not in my documents... 33 is referenced 12 times (MWCL) and not in any capacity that you give examples.

As far as I am aware no other documents have been linked or discussed in this thread so what documents are you referring to?

Edited July 6, 2013 by Masharra

[ratszo 17]

Care to reference the document that recommends 33?

Also recommends 33 for what?

It has been a while since Ive read the docs so I may have missed it.

Nobody's sprinting anywhere with a 33kg. kit --period. Anyone who's ever humped 20+kgs. knows it is about endurance..., one foot infront of the other.

Only way to do 60kg. is with a 'head strap' --leather loop under the load with a square of fleece on the forehead.

Very hard hump with a rifle --punishment detail in the Canadian Forces.

Let the Sp guys be supermen --let's keep PvP players with 'plausable' loadouts.

[LIMBSAVER 10]

Is this fatigue feature still being adjusted in the Beta of Arma3?? Holy Cow.. I can roll three times and my screen starts pulsating like there's no tomorrow.. Kinda irritating. Please tell me this is not where the sensitivity is is going to stay.....

Regards,

LIMBSAVER

[Dusty926 1]

We have a whole thread about this that is RIGHT below this thread. Ahh...well, we got a thread about exactly this, so I suggest you go and talk about this there.

[reclusive7 10]

My issue is that the visual effects were nauseating, there's a way to disable by placing a script into the init field of the unit, however this should either be based on difficulty level, a toggled option via server options/config or local game options/config, or simply done away with altogether(what I'd do), restricting sprint distance, or rate of travel would be far better than these visual effects that use both system resources and time/resources to implement such things.

When realism goes wrong, as it often does. How far are those of you bringing all this technical data that pertains to reality into gaming willing to go to add this much realism? What about any of these things make the game better or fun? People want hyper-realistic graphics, Crytek makes Crysis series, which yeah cool story but it doesn't encourage you to play more unless you're into the tacked on MP, game is realistically pretty to look at but falls short of being a fun game that encourages more play. Realism does not = magically delicious super fun time, I'm sorry but it doesn't. I've always liked gaming because it's not reality, it's fun(when done right), if I want a idk Park Simulator, I'll simply bypass the game and just go to the park in reality.

Bringing reality in terms of physics is great and does enhance gameplay, but lets look at a horrible example, idk how many of you caught Dean Hall bs'ing his way through interviews like idk a month or so ago around E3, he stated allegedly, that they had spent time and resources researching and gathering data on how often one must hydrate or how quickly one dehydrates in all these different scenarios and temperatures, night time, day time, etc. Now what about that sounds like it adds gameplay value or a fun and enjoyable aspect to the game? My opinion, absolutely nothing valuable for gaming, it's a waste of time and resources.

Edited July 6, 2013 by RECLUSIVE7

[reclusive7 10]

Is this fatigue feature still being adjusted in the Beta of Arma3?? Holy Cow.. I can roll three times and my screen starts pulsating like there's no tomorrow.. Kinda irritating. Please tell me this is not where the sensitivity is is going to stay.....

Regards,

LIMBSAVER

there are also ticket(s) for it in the tracker, add to them or expand on them. But yeah it's irritating.

[Masharra 10]

My issue is that the visual effects were nauseating, there's a way to disable by placing a script into the init field of the unit, however this should either be based on difficulty level, a toggled option via server options/config or local game options/config, or simply done away with altogether(what I'd do), restricting sprint distance, or rate of travel would be far better than these visual effects that use both system resources and time/resources to implement such things.

When realism goes wrong, as it often does. How far are those of you bringing all this technical data that pertains to reality into gaming willing to go to add this much realism? What about any of these things make the game better or fun? People want hyper-realistic graphics, Crytek makes Crysis series, which yeah cool story but it doesn't encourage you to play more unless you're into the tacked on MP, game is realistically pretty to look at but falls short of being a fun game that encourages more play. Realism does not = magically delicious super fun time, I'm sorry but it doesn't. I've always liked gaming because it's not reality, it's fun(when done right), if I want a idk Park Simulator, I'll simply bypass the game and just go to the park in reality.

Bringing reality in terms of physics is great and does enhance gameplay, but lets look at a horrible example, idk how many of you caught Dean Hall bs'ing his way through interviews like idk a month or so ago around E3, he stated allegedly, that they had spent time and resources researching and gathering data on how often one must hydrate or how quickly one dehydrates in all these different scenarios and temperatures, night time, day time, etc. Now what about that sounds like it adds gameplay value or a fun and enjoyable aspect to the game? My opinion, absolutely nothing valuable for gaming, it's a waste of time and resources.

Your sig screams USI.

On topic....

Add this much realism how far am I willing to go? I dont know. If they were willing to adjust the carry weight I wouldnt mind reupping. Would get a large bonus too. You know what else can make the game fun? Mechs.

" if I want a idk Park Simulator, I'll simply bypass the game and just go to the park in reality. " If you want to play some blatantly unrealistic bs maybe you should simply bypass the game and go back to playing CoD?

[Smurf 12]

Someone can collects those tickets and post here? Can't handle the search system.

[reclusive7 10]

Talking about the game and your argument for what makes the game better or fun when adding this ultra realism, not about your military status or considerations for re-enlistment, I'm a Vet too whoopity doo dah doesnt make either of us any more or less relevant than a bus driver or a teacher, who's screaming USI now.

Thanks for the CoD comment btw, I'm sure you're the first to ever use it, stereotypical fanboish behavior, I dont agree you are a CoD/DayZ/BF/____fill in generic half assed shooter here. I'm against adding the ridiculous features that DayZ has, DayZ is trash. CoD is horribad too, why would anyone want anything from either of those in Arma is beyond me, I've been that way a long time, but somehow as I said in my sig, not agreeing with the "herd" gets you labeled that way by guess who? Fanbois and apologists like yourself.

And for the comment in my sig challenging BIS to bring their editor up to par with the rest of the competent industry, it's simple they either need to say "dear fanbase we're leaving the editor in shambles as is, and will not be making improvements to productivity or accessibility" or "dear fanbase we're going to provide you with the tools you need to fix our screwups and fill the void with good quality content we're unable or unwilling to provide outright, you're welcome, and thanks for helping us keep our franchise alive", doing that would end all the damn debating about what they should or shouldn't do in regards to the editor.

So again what about all this ultra realism is making Arma3 the king of the series? What about it is adding fun and gameplay value that isn't a chore but is enjoyable?

[Masharra 10]

Talking about the game and your argument for what makes the game better or fun when adding this ultra realism, not about your military status or considerations for re-enlistment, I'm a Vet too whoopity doo dah doesnt make either of us any more or less relevant than a bus driver or a teacher, who's screaming USI now.

Thanks for the CoD comment btw, I'm sure you're the first to ever use it, stereotypical fanboish behavior, I dont agree you are a CoD/DayZ/BF/____fill in generic half assed shooter here. I'm against adding the ridiculous features that DayZ has, DayZ is trash. CoD is horribad too, why would anyone want anything from either of those in Arma is beyond me, I've been that way a long time, but somehow as I said in my sig, not agreeing with the "herd" gets you labeled that way by guess who? Fanbois and apologists like yourself.

And for the comment in my sig challenging BIS to bring their editor up to par with the rest of the competent industry, it's simple they either need to say "dear fanbase we're leaving the editor in shambles as is, and will not be making improvements to productivity or accessibility" or "dear fanbase we're going to provide you with the tools you need to fix our screwups and fill the void with good quality content we're unable or unwilling to provide outright, you're welcome, and thanks for helping us keep our franchise alive", doing that would end all the damn debating about what they should or shouldn't do in regards to the editor.

So again what about all this ultra realism is making Arma3 the king of the series? What about it is adding fun and gameplay value that isn't a chore but is enjoyable?

Me a fanboy apologist? You really must be new here. You may want to click my name and view past posts.... :D

How far are those of you bringing all this technical data that pertains to reality into gaming willing to go to add this much realism?

I was not stating I was a veteran for attention. You asked how far I was willing to go. I stated what I was willing to do.

If all I had to do so they could enhance the med system, add wind, maybe add a closer to present day scenario was reup then by all means I would have signed the papers long ago.

Next I have 470ish hours in CoDBO1 and even more in CoD4. When I say perhaps one should play CoD I do not mean it as an insult, I mean maybe you should just go play CoD instead.

The only people who get insulted when their game is insulted are shallow people.

When I first started playing crusader kings 2 and I complained about some things that were "at the time too hard no fun" I was told that I should go play a game that is tailored for me rather than them changing for me. I refused and learned how to play and I currently have over 800hrs in CK2.

Please define Ultra-Realism? How does one get more real than real?

To go further into your post " What about any of these things make the game better or fun? " Realistic weights would give the Assistant "anything" a point. Further promoting teamwork and reliance on communication.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Masharra

[reclusive7 10]

Me a fanboy apologist? You really must be new here. You may want to click my name and view past posts.... :D

I was not stating I was a veteran for attention. You asked how far I was willing to go. I stated what I was willing to do.

Next I have 470ish hours in CoDBO1 and even more in CoD4. When I say perhaps one should play CoD I do not mean it as an insult, I mean maybe you should just go play CoD instead.

Please define Ultra-Realism? How does one get more real than real?

To go further into your post " What about any of these things make the game better or fun? " Realistic weights would give the Assistant "anything" a point.

Well then how about, as adults and stuff we stop jerking eachother around? Deal?

PS changed my sig to fit in with the herd, happy now?

[metalcraze 290]

Dunno man. In Call of Duty you certainly can't carry more than a realistic weight and certainly can't sprint with it forever. CoD's health regen also takes longer than one click insta-health regen from ArmA3 medkits that you can use as much as you want as long as you keep killing dudes and robbing their bodies.

So how can anyone hate a game that is more realistic than "a realistic game with simulation elements" that BIS pretends ArmA3 to be?

[Masharra 10]

Dunno man. In Call of Duty you certainly can't carry more than a realistic weight and certainly can't sprint with it forever. CoD's health regen also takes longer than one click insta-health regen from ArmA3 medkits that you can use as much as you want as long as you keep killing dudes and robbing their bodies.

So how can anyone hate a game that is more realistic than "a realistic game with simulation elements" that BIS pretends ArmA3 to be?

True.. And if you play hardcore there is no hp regen at all. Similar to R6 oldschool days. Get shot... limp the next 40 minutes. Back in the days when "we" had balls and werent scared to be punished for mistakes. We accepted, learned, and adapted. And somehow games like that are known as some of thee BEST and most popular tactical shooters. obviously they werent fun...

Well then how about, as adults and stuff we stop jerking eachother around? Deal?

PS changed my sig to fit in with the herd, happy now?

Im not sure what is "adult" about your signature now. :D Though if I managed to upset you that much then Thanks! I always enjoy knowing I have that much control over random strangers emotions. I feel like Xavier from x-men.

That being said I shall Link smurfs great post from earlier in the thread.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?157425-Beta-fatigue-effects&p=2426509&viewfull=1#post2426509

He had/has some great ideas collected from earlier in the thread and his own concerning fatigue and encumbrance.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Masharra

[Alwarren 2767]

If I have told you once, I have told you a million times about exaggerating.

What the heck are you referring to? The maximum loadout for a soldier in Arma 3 is 175-200 kilos, extrapolated with the scripting functions available and the weight of the items from the config.cpp. I am not exaggerating at all, I am not "twisting" anything, these are cold hard facts that I can prove.

All I am saying is, that regardless of what a documents recommends, there are physical limitations, and these physical limitations are taken way out of proportion in the game.

So I seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

I mean, is it really asking too much for a game that uses words like "realistic" or "authentic" to have a somewhat real-life load limit for players? Or are BIS so eager to please Warfare/Wasteland players that they risk alienating all the veteran players that want realism and turn every solider in the game to a one-man army with more hardware on their back than an average thrrd-world country militia? Are we really asking too much?

Edited July 6, 2013 by Alwarren

[Ruinf20 10]

Completely agree to this something needs to be done as seen in video below it gets really annoying and takes away from the games amazing graphics.

[-ghost-tf 12]

Talking about the game and your argument for what makes the game better or fun when adding this ultra realism, not about your military status or considerations for re-enlistment, I'm a Vet too whoopity doo dah doesnt make either of us any more or less relevant than a bus driver or a teacher, who's screaming USI now.

People like you need to start reading the past posts... Unless you really believe that preventing players from carrying over 100kg is ULTRA REALISM, people here are not asking for forced walk after 100m sprint with 30kg on your back. Only thing we need is acceptable weight limits, with proper punishments if you carry too much, just to prevent this game from turning into some dumb rambo fest, with onemanarmys sprinting all over the place carrying cows and shit. If you like carrying cows, you team up and share the weight, sounds weird eh? This game is about teamwork *suprise*.

I mean, is it really asking too much for a game that uses words like "realistic" or "authentic" to have a somewhat real-life load limit for players?

Are you out of your mind??!! You want real-life load limits for players into a game series that has been focused on simulating real-life stuff for years? You might upset all the new guys for making the game "ULTRA REALISTIC" because then you cant sprint with cows on your back.

[swazi 10]

this thread inspired me to go to FIFA forums and complain, that fifa is no fun, because basketball is better and i'm gonna ''suggest'' having baskets instead of goals and using arms instead of legs to move the ball. u see its fun scoring basket every 20 sek instead of waiting and planing for a goal perhaps every 5 minutes... boriiiiiinggg

[Varanon 892]

this thread inspired me to go to FIFA forums and complain, that fifa is no fun, because basketball is better and i'm gonna ''suggest'' having baskets instead of goals and using arms instead of legs to move the ball. u see its fun scoring basket every 20 sek instead of waiting and planing for a goal perhaps every 5 minutes... boriiiiiinggg

Sigh....

completely off topic and completely missing the point

[keefehb 0]

I mean, is it really asking too much for a game that uses words like "realistic" or "authentic" to have a somewhat real-life load limit for players? Or are BIS so eager to please Warfare/Wasteland players that they risk alienating all the veteran players that want realism and turn every solider in the game to a one-man army with more hardware on their back than an average thrrd-world country militia? Are we really asking too much?

Yes.

Authentic is the new buzzword for arcading shit up but trying to make it sound like it still has realism at heart. If you use the word realistic to refer to Arma 3, you don't get it, your a bitter Arma vet etc

By using "authentic" instead of realistic it adds the notion of "accessibility" which attracts new players who seen Arma previously as a game with a mensa level of complexity, driven by a small vocal minority of people with the brains of a spoon.

tl;dr This is a circle jerk, BIS will either find a middle ground for the stamina system that suits the dudebro's and us milsim nerds or we will just end up modding it ourselves.

Edited July 6, 2013 by KeefehB