SOC WIP Thread

[AlexVestin 24]

That looks really promising :)

As you said yourself, the stitches are not sticking out enough. The normal could be enough like it is since the thread does not really stand out that much, but if you could have them on the diffuse texture later with it's own color you'd get some really nice detail.

My only tip/critique at this moment.

Edited November 17, 2013 by AlexVestin

[PN11A 2]

Are you sculpting the wrinkles and ect on top of a base mesh and then painting them in mud box?

[Meatball0311 79]

Great idea it looks promising. I assume it's the ported M4's from your marsoc addon?

It is looking like I won't be using my M4's for this project, but are going to go with a different model.. Just ported them to get acquainted with the new scripting/modeling in A3. As far as that picture.. I have totally scratched that project and restarted it with the new knowledge that I am getting with modeling. Also, got some real nice textures from fluttershy.....

And a little FYI to all.. this thread is about the current SOC project and what we are preparing for the community to enjoy. Not for side topics or what we can or should do or what addons we need to make it compatible with or not. Please respect us and talk about other addons or projects in their appropriate threads. Thanks.

[PN11A 2]

Here is something I ve been trying to figure out, I noticed in most of textures you guys create you can see details down to the strand of the fabric. Now what determines how much of this is seen? I can go super crazy detail on textures but what determines what setting you will see this on? Will those seams be visible to someone with their texture set to normal or low?

[fluttershy 2]

PN11A this is how i was told the arma engine works. Midmap processing of textures. As the Normal map as well as other maps that are connected with the model get a midmap treathing, the quallity would overall degrade. It pretty much turns down the size of the texture image. So on for example = 2048x2048 textures would turn to 1024x1024 or even 512x512. So the textures work just like the LOD on Models, that either get automaticly calculate (as in armas case) or slightly generated by the user but within thight restrictions in Polysize. As a rule of thumb, you will normaly see regular "high texture" settings screenshots as the detail you currently see on the Pants resembles the lowpoly model with the normal map and the diffuse texture map. The quallity loss from High to Normal should not be as significant as the details are all there, they would only get scaled down a little, since the information is still there.

I hope that answers your question.

[PN11A 2]

Yes it does, makes perfect sense now.

[instagoat 133]

One thing that'd be cool is making the whole Uniform more dynamically sculpted, bulky pockets, fabric stretch-folds, warps, folds and bumps. Especially when moving around a lot, the fabric of these uniforms can become very tangled, and if the model and texture aren't made with that in mind, they look rather too clean (as the BI US combat Uniforms, in my opinion do.). What I mean is this:

http://i.imgur.com/XkHKW.jpg <- pockets so bulked up that stuff is spilling out on top. Very tightly stretched seams bunching towards the bottom of the pockets, where the weight is dragging on (seams generally follow the lines of pull, as you know. I don't know what program you are using in general for this project, but the 3D people I had in my class in University told me that you can be pretty safe when making bunching and folding fabric where it is being pulled on by some kind of weight. I myself only draw, so my expertise with 3D programs isn'T that great unfortunately.).

http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/gallery/australian-sas-in-crye-multicam-combat-uniforms/australian-sas-crye3.jpg <- very subtle ripstop effect, as well as dynamic folding and bunching. This also goes for the shirt, where it is being dragged on by the vest. Another thing, which is frequently overlooked by models for Arma, including all BI models so far, is how the vest is being distorted by the weight dragging down on it, pouches tilting and tipping, as well as bunching and folding on the vests fabric.

I think it'd be better to do -very- aggressive sculpting first and then tone it down, just like it painting where you begin with a really nice, heavy coat of dark color, and work your way up from there with lighter shades until you have the picture you want. Fabric is a very dynamic and malleable medium, and representing it is difficult ingame.

[fluttershy 2]

One thing that'd be cool is making the whole Uniform more dynamically sculpted, bulky pockets, fabric stretch-folds, warps, folds and bumps. Especially when moving around a lot, the fabric of these uniforms can become very tangled, and if the model and texture aren't made with that in mind, they look rather too clean (as the BI US combat Uniforms, in my opinion do.). What I mean is this:

http://i.imgur.com/XkHKW.jpg <- pockets so bulked up that stuff is spilling out on top. Very tightly stretched seams bunching towards the bottom of the pockets, where the weight is dragging on (seams generally follow the lines of pull, as you know. I don't know what program you are using in general for this project, but the 3D people I had in my class in University told me that you can be pretty safe when making bunching and folding fabric where it is being pulled on by some kind of weight. I myself only draw, so my expertise with 3D programs isn'T that great unfortunately.).

http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/gallery/australian-sas-in-crye-multicam-combat-uniforms/australian-sas-crye3.jpg <- very subtle ripstop effect, as well as dynamic folding and bunching. This also goes for the shirt, where it is being dragged on by the vest. Another thing, which is frequently overlooked by models for Arma, including all BI models so far, is how the vest is being distorted by the weight dragging down on it, pouches tilting and tipping, as well as bunching and folding on the vests fabric.

I think it'd be better to do -very- aggressive sculpting first and then tone it down, just like it painting where you begin with a really nice, heavy coat of dark color, and work your way up from there with lighter shades until you have the picture you want. Fabric is a very dynamic and malleable medium, and representing it is difficult ingame.

The problem is, a Normal map Bumping can only go so far. In Order to create a heavy fold and wirinkle on the clothing, it would need to be included in the lowpoly as well. Which would lead to either Texturestretching or a higher poly count. Of course Texturing can later be done using a displacement map but i havnt gone indepth with that yet.

I know from a person working in gamedevelopements 3d section that: To many folds and wrinkles might create an odd look as soon as the person is doing something that would clearly not create such folds. Therefor folds and other marks of that sort, that create texture distortion are keept to a medium to low ammount.

[scarecrow398 43]

http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/gallery/australian-sas-in-crye-multicam-combat-uniforms/australian-sas-crye3.jpg <- very subtle ripstop effect, as well as dynamic folding and bunching. This also goes for the shirt, where it is being dragged on by the vest. Another thing, which is frequently overlooked by models for Arma, including all BI models so far, is how the vest is being distorted by the weight dragging down on it, pouches tilting and tipping, as well as bunching and folding on the vests fabric.

FYI, Australian SF use a custom order version of the crye G3's, not the standard large issue stuff, so I wouldn't use that as a basis for the designs...

http://i.imgur.com/kByJb3t.jpg

Though the Ripstop is on the mass issue stuff.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Scarecrow398

[instagoat 133]

The problem is, a Normal map Bumping can only go so far. In Order to create a heavy fold and wirinkle on the clothing, it would need to be included in the lowpoly as well. Which would lead to either Texturestretching or a higher poly count. Of course Texturing can later be done using a displacement map but i havnt gone indepth with that yet.

I know from a person working in gamedevelopements 3d section that: To many folds and wrinkles might create an odd look as soon as the person is doing something that would clearly not create such folds. Therefor folds and other marks of that sort, that create texture distortion are keept to a medium to low ammount.

True, Especially the point on the misplaced folds is something that I find visually distracting especially in the arma games, since they are extremely honest in displaying the assets with this game (ie, no visual filters, glare, massive special effects and fast movements, so you can really take in the look of the models). Though, that is -really- difficult to get right, there's almost always going to be some part that doesn't make sense. For example in the vanilla US Uniforms, when going prone with a rifle, the left shoulder pocket and arm warps really awkwardly, stretching the textures and making the folds on the back side of the torso appear misplaced. I guess that also goes into weighting the model, too.

I´m no 3D modeller, and I´ve only dabbled a little bit with 3DMax and ZBrush, but I feel that you can reasonably focus on making the parts of the Uniform that will always be in view work better to the detriment of parts that will usually be hidden, for example the torso. I´m not sure how applicable this Idea is, but in our design shop at work we usually do reasonable tradeoffs with details for the sake of an overall tighter picture. The quality of the stuff you`re hinting at is really great already, though, so I don't wanna come off as if talking into your business, so if I am looking that way I apologize in advance.

One reason I take very big interest in your work is that the pseudo-crye BIS Uniforms don't really convey the same feel and presence as something taking faithfully from real life. I`d be more comfortable with them if there was an alternative.

Also @ Scarecrow: I meant those details to be considered in a general fashion, not specifically to the type of fabric used in the Uniforms I linked. I realize they're specialty makes, as far as I know pretty much every large order of these Uniforms was specialty make (such as the woodland combinations made for the Marines special forces quite a while ago.). My focus was rather more on the fact of how chaotic and bunched up these Uniforms become in hard wear, unlike the often rather plain and tidy looking Uniforms provided with the vanilla game.

[mistyronin 1181]

My focus was rather more on the fact of how chaotic and bunched up these Uniforms become in hard wear, unlike the often rather plain and tidy looking Uniforms provided with the vanilla game.

Well when I was serving I used some kind of woodland camo. And after a few weeks of training I used to joke that it had a new color ( my dry blood )... Besides the scratches and cuts that I had to sew myself.

Vanilla game uniforms feels like if they were recently made.

[Spaceman0372 19]

Well when I was serving I used some kind of woodland camo. And after a few weeks of training I used to joke that it had a new color ( my dry blood )... Besides the scratches and cuts that I had to sew myself.

Vanilla game uniforms feels like if they were recently made.

Nothing will ever beat the feeling of throwing on some salty cammies that are impossible to square away without the world's supply of starch. But a few of the vanilla uniforms are have a slight about of dirt and wear in them but nothing deployment worthy. Tis a shame.

[PN11A 2]

The problem is, a Normal map Bumping can only go so far. In Order to create a heavy fold and wirinkle on the clothing, it would need to be included in the lowpoly as well. Which would lead to either Texturestretching or a higher poly count. Of course Texturing can later be done using a displacement map but i havnt gone indepth with that yet.

I know from a person working in gamedevelopements 3d section that: To many folds and wrinkles might create an odd look as soon as the person is doing something that would clearly not create such folds. Therefor folds and other marks of that sort, that create texture distortion are keept to a medium to low ammount.

When you say displacement map are you speaking about baking the displacement and adding it with a diffuse color? I have attempted to use some displacement maps from Zbrush but they will not work with ARMA. The parallax normal could get us close to displacement maps but that is only usable in terrain. I think your doing a good job for the constraints we have its not as easy as some may believe to create content. Agreed that adding to many folds will ruin the look because those folds are dynamic, your player would look strange if you add the effect of body armor with him not wearing body armor.

Insta goat: I have personally switched to Zbrush exclusively for modeling. I struggle with some hard surface modeling because the program excels in organic models. The problem with what you propose "aggressive sculpting" then toning it down contradicts the digital sculpting process. You have to start generally large and work down to smaller forms. If you begin with aggressively adding folds and details your form will fail. In brush specifically holes will begin to appear if you do not have the structure under the detail. You must start at a low sub-d and move up because changes at high sub-d take way more movement to get them correct.

[fluttershy 2]

A Displacement Map can also be used in Order to transform an already generated texture. Photoshop has the feature to use subtile Displacement maps in order to warp a texture accordingly. As far as i know it uses an odd mix of height and diffuse map in order to achive that. Since i am working with self generated Fabric textures, displacing them wont be the problem, but since i am unwilling to recreate Multicam from scratch in order to apply the same Displacement i will have to do with whats available to me.

[scarecrow398 43]

Well when I was serving I used some kind of woodland camo. And after a few weeks of training I used to joke that it had a new color ( my dry blood )... Besides the scratches and cuts that I had to sew myself.

Vanilla game uniforms feels like if they were recently made.

Despite looking like they haven't been washed in the last month...

[fluttershy 2]

Here is a little update after my morning session on the Normal map. I toned down the Fabric effect inside the Normal map and resized my Ripstop grid with messurements taken from a DCU i had laying arround.

You can also see the seams and stitches better now. I also made sure to have a seperate Layer for the stitches so they can be colored in seperetly. The main body of the pants show the new Ripstop whilest the pockets still have my former texture equiped in order to have a visual comparision. Enjoy

tis above 100kb therefor you use link, yes?

[Linkage 10]

Have to say, that looks great

[fluttershy 2]

Alright, after about 7 hours of pure normal mapping i call quits for today.

I am only missing some of the pocket parts and a few stitches here and there. Overall i am happy with the result, even though some of the UVs dont match on my preview model. Maybee i will be able to start applying textures to the pants tomorrow.

much detail

so mapped

[m1n1d0u 29]

I love your work and i really like to see some modders like you who try to offer more variety and content to the game , i hope the release of the arma 3 tool today gonna help you !

[fluttershy 2]

I love your work and i really like to see some modders like you who try to offer more variety and content to the game , i hope the release of the arma 3 tool today gonna help you !

Not really since non of the BI-Tools equally support or ease my workflow at all. Textures and maps are not really connected to any of the tools.

[fluttershy 2]

Alright gents and fräuleins. Today i finished the normal map as well as the normal texture. Please note that withering and other envioremental factors have not yet been applied to the texture.

We will also have to redo the Kneepads as i just noticed they came out really wrong. Other then that, everything is included. The new Ripstop looks a lot more as intended and is quiet subtile. The Stitches are now in there own Layers for easier coloration and to give them a little more depth. The MC pattern was broken down on all seams to create a more realistic texture overall.

(you can click the picturelink for a closer look to get a better look on stitches and the fabric texture implemented in the normal map)

I am currently not aware of the next texture assignment within the project but i am looking forward to something less organic ^^

[jefferspang 2]

I am currently not aware of the next texture assignment within the project but i am looking forward to something less organic ^^

so innocent .... ;)

[papanowel 120]

Very nice progress.

So now you'll have to work on texture helmet/weapon? :rolleyes:

[enex 11]

Excellent job.Should I dare to say it that is on level of hired BI modelers!

Also thanks for pictures.With all hype that this thread carries I see too little

input from developers.And it's not necessary with pictures just a few updates

there and there. : )

[warlord554 2065]

Those pockets turned out great. Great work and thanks for the update!!