OVER POWERED AI ! Please fix this for final game ruins coop

[metalcraze 290]

Bet it's even more simple than that. Because what you wrote maturin is what TPW AI LOS does and it improves AI brains a lot vs. vanilla. Meaning it seems like it's not in the game by default but it totally should be.

[kklownboy 43]

Or you can but it on your server now...

[NeMeSiS 11]

Bet it's even more simple than that. Because what you wrote maturin is what TPW AI LOS does and it improves AI brains a lot vs. vanilla. Meaning it seems like it's not in the game by default but it totally should be.

It is probably the same, but TPW AI seems to order the AI around a bit more so they actually start doing stuff, whereas the default routines seem more 'passive'.

I think it would be interesting to see the differences if you input the guesstimated positions of the AI, instead of the actual positions of units into TPW, maybe i will try that this weekend.

EDIT: After looking at the scripts i think TPW takes more enemies into account, whereas the default AI seems to focus only on 1 target at a time. (AFAIK, i may be wrong but i thought that the AI only engages whatever is returned by http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/findNearestEnemy)

EDIT2: It seems that the AI would have an easier time spotting enemies with TPW, considering it does not take as many variables into account as the normal AI, though enough to avoid any wallhacky stuff.

Also, compliments to the well written script.

Edited May 15, 2013 by NeMeSiS

[-Coulum- 35]

A LOS check draws a single line by definition. So there are probably only a handful of points that the AI looks at, probably one in your central chest and one in your head. Imagine if the game had to draw lines from the AI's head to every single poly of the target's model.

Yes that makes sense and clearly my "doesn't matter if they see one pixel or 500 pixels" is the incorrect way of phrasing what I mean. But the general point still stands true. Doesn't matter if I am in this position:

or in this position:

The ai sees me just as quickly. For a human its is just not the same. We would see the guy in the second picture almost instantaneously, the other guy would take at least a few seconds. This problem is compounded at range when you peek out of a window, out behind a bush or a rock for just a few seconds and the ai identifies you as fast as if you were right out in the open. Am I totally wrong in this regard?

Something like this is going on with AI. Remember that AI has an easier chance of spotting an enemy the faster an enemy moves and the higher enemy's profile is. Not only that but depending on AI skill there's also a varied spotting time. So basically an enemy needs to move at speed X (turning the body is also taken into account iirc) for Y seconds to get spotted. Depends on the distance and stance as well.

So sitting down without moving in a view of AI with rock concealing most of you will produce the effect you want. Plus there's also another interesting thing coming from this.

I was making a night mission once where you needed to sneak past patrols in the forest to reach the objective. What I've noticed is that if you will constantly run they will spot you (which is logical duh) but if you will do short bounding from tree to tree with stopping for a few seconds after each run - you will sneak in undetected. This seems to be quite a realistic result.

Kinda like "oh I think I've spotted some movement in the corner of my eye... Mmm looks like it was just a bush"

Yes, what you say is true, but I don't think it applies to the amount of your body is being exposed like I demonstrate in the above pictures. having just the tip of your head visible to the enemy instead of your whole body should have a similar effect as prone does in comparison to being in full standing.

[EDIT]

I always thought the reason that tpw script helped so much was because it checked for enemies more frequently and when it found and enemy was close enough it overrode the ai's flawed priorities (ie. "yah theres a guy 10 metres away but I am moving to cover and need to shoot at the guy 100 metres away first).

Edited May 15, 2013 by -Coulum-

[NeMeSiS 11]

[EDIT]

I always thought the reason that tpw script helped so much was because it checked for enemies more frequently and when it found and enemy was close enough it overrode the ai's flawed priorities (ie. "yah theres a guy 10 metres away but I am moving to cover and need to shoot at the guy 100 metres away first).

That pretty much sums it up yeah.

[telkwa 0]

I updated Metalcraze's Ticket with another video.

This video shows the AI enemy squad sends a hunting party of 2 to the location I shot from after searching for 5 1/2 minutes one AI inside a building spontaneously has a way point right on top of me ( I am prone behind a tree hundreds of meters away with multiple walls and objects between me an any AI ). At that moment 2 more AI enemy move up to join the hunting party and I'm eventually approached and killed.

This bug cannot be reproduced if you only allow the AI to spot you or to injure you. If you do not kill an AI they will not find you. You must kill an AI in their formed group of two or more.

The bug can be reproduced as long as there are a minimum of three AI enemy linked in a formation regardless of any of their rank or having a designated Squad/Team leader and if one of them is killed. In fact my 3 AI formation squad test showed that they will get the Players location faster. If you spawn 2 AI enemy and kill one, the other never pursues player.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8204

Edited May 20, 2013 by Telkwa

[BiZzR32 10]

Dear b.i.s

i have now quit your stupid game ! Wasted my money didnt i.... Get a more stable platform without all the freezing up and crashing sooo over it ~! U can place the $40 u know where

Edited May 21, 2013 by BiZzR32

[jw custom 56]

Dear b.i.s

i have now quit your stupid game ! Wasted my money didnt i.... Get a more stable platform without all the freezing up and crashing sooo over it ~! U can place the $40 u know where

LOL...

This is not ArmA 3 Alpha this is an alpha version of ArmA 3... go figure ;)

[BiZzR32 10]

Ya well , great work at teasing people . But now im just annoyed at what to expect. Paid already may as well see what the end product is like. If im still thinking about when it EVENTUALLY is all sorted out for release

[telkwa 0]

Dear b.i.s

i have now quit your stupid game ! Wasted my money didnt i.... Get a more stable platform without all the freezing up and crashing sooo over it ~! U can place the $40 u know where

You so silly. We didn't pay early to play early.

We paid early to help test and maybe have fun along the way.

[BiZzR32 10]

You so silly. We didn't pay early to play early.

We paid early to help test and maybe have fun along the way.

I understand this, But we are also helping them make money now before its done. . . They dont need us to test it for months thats what developers are for. . . I Wouldnt also expect so many dramaz with a game. I can only hope they get this running smoother otherwise ill just throw it away. Its that simple . . . And wouldnt reccommend BIS games to my friends

[froggyluv 2136]

I understand this, But we are also helping them make money now before its done. . . They dont need us to test it for months thats what developers are for. . . I Wouldnt also expect so many dramaz with a game. I can only hope they get this running smoother otherwise ill just throw it away. Its that simple . . . And wouldnt reccommend BIS games to my friends

Ever hear of Wolfire's alpha Overgrowth? They've had a pay to test Alpha going on for YEARS -and their community gives them far less grief as they seem to better understand that in the long run it's a win-win. Many playtesters enjoys finding bugs or giving feedback or ideas. Obviously its not for everyone.... The only dramaz I see are from too eager for polished gold 'playtesters'.

[BiZzR32 10]

Ever hear of Wolfire's alpha Overgrowth? They've had a pay to test Alpha going on for YEARS -and their community gives them far less grief as they seem to better understand that in the long run it's a win-win. Many playtesters enjoys finding bugs or giving feedback or ideas. Obviously its not for everyone.... The only dramaz I see are from too eager for polished gold 'playtesters'.

Dont charge people money for a bugged game ! Period... Wait for beta then charge(having said that most beta are a free download) ....Ive been playin this game since it came out. And i have history with OFP and many others. Arma 2 runs alot better and we all can agree. But the main concern is the reason WHY we had to pay for such a bugged version. Fair enough some people might like the constant crashing and freezing , which ive seen in MANY threads and posts already. I hear nothing on the sitrep about fixing the Stability. Whats the point in making MORE units if the bloody thing is still goinn to Crash and freeze, EVEN more probably because of more units working on the map.

Maybe an engine update is required, i dunno . I dont get paid the big bucks to worry about these things

So basically i was better off keeping the Torrent copy of Arma 3 then purchasing ? Ill keep this in mind next Alpha product comes out

Edited May 22, 2013 by BiZzR32

[nodunit 397]

Well your first mistake is this bit "WHY we had to pay" nobody forced you to pay for it, the game was marketted as an alpha at nearly every corner, you had plenty to go on and yet you still purchased it.

Also

SPOTREP #00001 "ACTIVITY: Game Update: 0.52 (shadow improvements, crash fixes, destructible windows)"

SITREP #00004 "INTELLIGENCE The 0.52 version unfortunately contained a particularly nasty crash in multiplayer, for which we have published a default branch hotfix."

SITREP #00006 "OPERATIONS "The goal is to catch major issues such as crashes on start-up, but not to fix every bug (it's still an Alpha). "

SPOTREP #00002 ACTIVITY: Game Update: 0.54 (new fog technology, adjustable sidearm stances, crash

SITREP #00007 SITUATION "Stability was targeted by fixing crashes reported on Feedback Tracker, but also by finding and solving a problem related to the implementation of PhysX."

And if you check the feedback tracker they are attempting to ascertain information related to crashed and fix them.

Secondly the point of making more is due to the fact that not everyone works on one portion of the game, everyones job isn't to fix but to also create, which causes bugs and thus requires fixing.

[BiZzR32 10]

Well i see nothing about Freezing for about 10-30seconds at times . Or do you call that Crash also? Im sure its knowledge and its goin to be fixed isnt it !

And secondly i see the reports i am watching them often. And have comminity of its own posting their own feedback. I would like my comments acknowledged because after all we are the people who keep the money coming in not the people who download illegally. Which one make company money? Legal downloading i assume. I brought it because the NEW version came out and had alos promises of hotfixes. Which obviously didnt quite work did they

Dont give me that nobody forced me crap either... nobody forced you to charge your possible future customers for a bugged version ? Yes they did. And no i made a choice because i liked the look of the game.. But as a GAMER you need to consider if its fun anymore. And its not fun, so fingersX'd the devs listen and act . Independent or not they need to listen to the problems . And make it a game playable by most

Edited May 22, 2013 by BiZzR32

[chortles 263]

But the main concern is the reason WHY we had to pay for such a bugged version.

... because you receive the beta and (hopefully) less-buggy full version for free afterward.

[nodunit 397]

Yes they did. And no i made a choice because i liked the look of the game.. But as a GAMER you need to consider if its fun anymore. And its not fun, so fingersX'd the devs listen and act . Independent or not they need to listen to the problems . And make it a game playable by most

Tell me how, and as a gamer, there is no clear lined definition of what is fun and what isn't, what you consider fun is not what others might.

In concert to your first post, the devs have responded that they will be working on making the AI...different.

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZxFxJxKY5h "But to elaborate, balance is really important - not only for content assets, but also in terms of small tweaks in the AI behavior, reaction and precision. Our goal is to make the game enjoyable and believable, which means that we need to cross reference the game with reality, and make the best of it. You’ll probably notice that in firefights, you are often being shot at but not killed instantly. This is the way we would like to go. Before, the AI was really deadly. This is definitely not to say that Arma 3 isn’t challenging anymore, it’s mostly less frustrating."

and before anyone misinterprets that.. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?122794-ARMA-3-development-blog-amp-reveals&p=2396289&viewfull=1#post2396289

[froggyluv 2136]

Dont charge people money for a bugged game ! Period... Wait for beta then charge(having said that most beta are a free download)

Just lol....that's like saying "Don't sell me a puppy dog that shits on my carpet!!!" Don't buy a puppy, wait for the trained dog. You preordered a game that gives you the option to be an Alpha playtester -that's all. Bugs were advertised up front and if your a gamer with any dirt on your thumbs -you oughta know that. Creating more units is separate from stabilizing performance so no you don't cease ALL production until everything is honky-dury.

Arma 2 runs alot better and we all can agree

Arma 2 is not an alpha, nor a beta, its fully released with years of patches on top of it -so comparing the two is simply mindless.

So basically i was better off keeping the Torrent copy of Arma 3 then purchasing ? Ill keep this in mind next Alpha product comes out

Good for you thief.

[BiZzR32 10]

Just lol....that's like saying "Don't sell me a puppy dog that shits on my carpet!!!" Don't buy a puppy, wait for the trained dog. You preordered a game that gives you the option to be an Alpha playtester -that's all. Bugs were advertised up front and if your a gamer with any dirt on your thumbs -you oughta know that. Creating more units is separate from stabilizing performance so no you don't cease ALL production until everything is honky-dury.

Arma 2 is not an alpha, nor a beta, its fully released with years of patches on top of it -so comparing the two is simply mindless.

Good for you thief.

Ya its called dont buy a game thats so bugged .. . . I dont have issues with dogs you are able to handle them easier then a PC game and its bugs. Makes me remember why i brought an Xbox them years ago

And dont be too sad, theres worse out then then a theif.

Froggy your the biggest fuckin tool ive ever met, all you can do is comment in defense i assume you have something to do with the game. Or are lickin the right asses for your benifit. Get off your PC and go help fix this game. And maybe MORE ppl will be happy to buy and play the game

Just admit the games in a hopeless state and im partly right. DONT CHARGE PPL FOR ALPHAZ in future just take it in , without dribbling some more

---------- Post added at 04:44 ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 ----------

Tell me how, and as a gamer, there is no clear lined definition of what is fun and what isn't, what you consider fun is not what others might.

In concert to your first post, the devs have responded that they will be working on making the AI...different.

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZxFxJxKY5h "But to elaborate, balance is really important - not only for content assets, but also in terms of small tweaks in the AI behavior, reaction and precision. Our goal is to make the game enjoyable and believable, which means that we need to cross reference the game with reality, and make the best of it. You’ll probably notice that in firefights, you are often being shot at but not killed instantly. This is the way we would like to go. Before, the AI was really deadly. This is definitely not to say that Arma 3 isn’t challenging anymore, it’s mostly less frustrating."

and before anyone misinterprets that.. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?122794-ARMA-3-development-blog-amp-reveals&p=2396289&viewfull=1#post2396289

The AI skill level was a concern for me and my MAIN concern as posted in first post was the Stablity also , of the game. So im addressing this now. People on forums are slightly slow , nothings chnaged

Edited May 22, 2013 by BiZzR32

[eltoro1510 10]

Im with bizzr32 we didnt have to pay for bf3 when it was a beta? so why arma 3?????

[jw custom 56]

Im with bizzr32 we didnt have to pay for bf3 when it was a beta? so why arma 3?????

You did not HAVE to pay for the alpha:

1. There was plenty of free alpha lite keys available.

2. You could simply have chosen not to buy the alpha.

[dmarkwick 261]

Get off your PC and go help fix this game.

Most hilarious quote of the month, for so many reasons I'm not going to list :)

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Im with bizzr32 we didnt have to pay for bf3 when it was a beta? so why arma 3?????

*click* patience mode activated...... I assumed we all bought the Arma3 Alpha because with that single relatively inexpensive payment you got access to the alpha, beta and final release at no extra charge? In return you get to find the bugs and report them and help with development plus hundreds of hours extra gaming in A3 for very little cost. That was the widely understood 'deal' for anyone that bothered to read the A3 website, it's a bargain, a steal! If you didn't want to help with development you could either:

1. Not buy it and pay extra on final game release.

2. Buy the alpha and not play it until final game release.

[dmarkwick 261]

*click* patience mode activated...... I assumed we all bought the Arma3 Alpha because with that single relatively inexpensive payment you got access to the alpha, beta and final release at no extra charge? In return you get to find the bugs and report them and help with development plus hundreds of hours extra gaming in A3 for very little cost. That was the widely understood 'deal' for anyone that bothered to read the A3 website, it's a bargain, a steal! If you didn't want to help with development you could either:

1. Not buy it and pay extra on final game release.

2. Buy the alpha and not play it until final game release.

Meh. Too much common sense in a common-senseless thread. I don't expect people who cannot understand what they've done to suddenly appreciate the bigger picture :)

[NeMeSiS 11]

Im with bizzr32 we didnt have to pay for bf3 when it was a beta? so why arma 3?????

You bought ArmA3, and got access to the alpha. If you played the free BF3 beta you didnt get the full game. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Also, you got a huge discount.