Rifle damage

[ChineseFood 11]

i thinks rifle damage is ridiculous i understand head shots are 1 hit kills but i shoot to legs , feet , arms , everyone dies from 1 bullet and if i use 9mm pistol i need to waste like 5-9 bullets to kill enemy if i dont do head shot. :/ . also sometimes when i shoot at enemy i hear weird sounds like i hit metal wall or a bucket. i hope later you add flesh damage sounds, more screams , and blood effects :D

[NicotinKickballovich 1]

Nonsense, it takes more than 1 shot with a rifle to kill someone, especially when you hit them in the legs or arms. Even after hitting someone in the chest with a 7.62 a lot still survive. As for the pistol it only makes sense if it takes 5-9 shots to kill since it has to penatrate all that armor with 9mm rounds. By the way that weird metal sound was propably the helmet getting hit.

[PFC Magician 10]

BIS make a great ballistic simulation now is time to wounds simulation, i hope flesh damage sounds, more screams , and blood effects too!!

obviously the damage and blood depends on the distance and ammunition type

there are not many videos of people being fired but in real forensic investigation so lots of blood spread (close distance)

and there is some viedos of corpses mangled face, indicating that blood, teeth and bones scattered (long distance)

removed

LEG SHOOT DONT KILL

removed

HEAD SHOOT DONT KILL

Edited May 5, 2013 by Franze
explicit content

[-Coulum- 35]

Just because it doesn't kill you doesn't mean you would be able to fight effectively. The above vids are proof of that. Even though neither of these guys were dead, they were not in any condition to fight. For game purposes they are "dead". I think the problem is there is too much of a gap between dead and alive. Right now you are either alive and able to fight or dead. There needs to be inbetween stages, like being incapacitated, dying, bleeding, in agony etc.

However, seeing as we are unlikely to get that level of detail, I think that the damage of weapons right now is good enough. The fact is, if you tweak them higher or lower it is always going to contradict certain situations that happen in reality. An easy way to help fix this would be to simply make damage dealt a bit more randomized.

[metalcraze 290]

BIS can of course lock your game and make you unable to play for a month simulating you bleeding out and then chilling in a hospital as you heal from said non-lethal wounds but something tells me KIA is a lot better solution.

[keefehb 0]

There needs to be inbetween stages, like being incapacitated, dying, bleeding, in agony etc.

We need the first aid module/simulation thing back.

[ChineseFood 11]

Autorifleman with MX SW 6.5x39 mm . i tested on 20 troops lined. i shot each guy in toe yes not leg but toe 1 finger and 1 shot = dead all 20/20 died from 1 bullet into toe.

Edited May 5, 2013 by ChineseFood

[PN11A 2]

7.62 = 1 cal

6.8 = .8

5.56 = .5

[max power 21]

I don't think the hitpoints for the toes are different than the legs, but I could be wrong. At any rate, maybe it has something to do with armoured vs. unarmoured parts. If you have a complaint and have done some repro testing, you should make a ticket on the issue tracker.

http://feedback.arma3.com/

[Zatan13th 10]

I don't think they are trying to simulate injuring system anyway :p

I think you should pretend:

1 hit at toe -> dead = out of combat effective -> go and get to the back line.

Since there is no back line here, then you are dead instead. :D

[Deadfast 43]

My latest toying around with handleDamage indicate there is something seriously wrong with the damage system, namely the wrong selections being damaged (shot to the chest somehow damages the head more than the body, and better yet, it damages it more than a direct shot to the head). I'll do some further research and if my suspicions are confirmed, I'll report it.

[ChineseFood 11]

I don't think they are trying to simulate injuring system anyway :p

I think you should pretend:

Since there is no back line here, then you are dead instead. :D

previous arma 1 and arma 2 did it right you shoot to leg 1 bullet you wound him, so medic can patch him up. here in this game whats the point shootin head shots if you can do leg shots and enemy dies in 1 shot. just reduce damage a little jeesh...

[denco 16]

We need the first aid module/simulation thing back.

Firs aid module is the worst thing in arma 2 and it made so many missions unplayable for me. Why not implant something similar to what that ACE mod does with its wounding system?

[Hartmann 10]

ACE was so good in this regard.

There was actually a fear of being wounded there, which in many gamemodes meant playing considerably more carefull due to the effort involved in fully fixing up wounds.

Right now you're either dead or completely fine, and dead just means hit respawn and you're back in action. It basically removes an entire segment of gameplay from the game when you have no real middle ground between dead and alive.

[Deadfast 43]

My latest toying around with handleDamage indicate there is something seriously wrong with the damage system, namely the wrong selections being damaged (shot to the chest somehow damages the head more than the body, and better yet, it damages it more than a direct shot to the head). I'll do some further research and if my suspicions are confirmed, I'll report it.

Reported here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8047

[keefehb 0]

Firs aid module is the worst thing in arma 2 and it made so many missions unplayable for me. Why not implant something similar to what that ACE mod does with its wounding system?

Even better :)

[metalcraze 290]

Because BIS seems to be afraid that making playing a medic interesting will drive away casual players.

[afp 1]

I was playing ArmA 2 ACE missions like Insurgency where most of the backpack content consisted in medical supplies and 70% of the time was spent by team patching each other. That was way too much, there should always be an alternate simpler system otherwise the focus moves from action to not so important details. Why would I care for 10 types of medical accessories, its the medic job. Or if I use the medical stuff I want a simple medical kit that does the job I dont want to spent time with a "game inside a game".

"There was actually a fear of being wounded there, which in many gamemodes meant playing considerably more carefull due to the effort involved in fully fixing up wounds."

Actually I always felt that people knowing that they can be patched or could easily respawn are less carefull in game and have a non realistic approach (not cautious) during fights.

So I'd say not everybody is attracted to medical details, nor in game or in real life :). ArmA 2 was good in this regard, offering options for all types of players.

Edited May 6, 2013 by afp

[metalcraze 290]

where most of the backpack content consisted in medical supplies and 70% of the time was spent by team patching each other. That was way too much,

You can't really blame ACE medic system for your utterly wrong way of playing a milsim

If you are constantly getting shot it's not medic system's fault.

Why would I care for 10 types of medical accessories, its the medic job.

So why don't you let your dedicated medic do it? A usual soldier shouldn't have more than a few bandages and a first aid kit.

Actually I always felt that people knowing that they can be patched or could easily respawn are less carefull in game and have a non realistic approach (not cautious) during fights.

Give medic 4 bandages, play a norespawn mission = problem solved.

You create issues for yourself yourself.

Edited May 6, 2013 by metalcraze

[dmarkwick 261]

I can see how having stages of disability would add to gameplay, I disagree that the knowledge you can be patched up is detrimantal. If those stages of disability mant that for a while, until you were patched up by a medic, that you were a liability not only to yourself but your teamates than I think that's a good incentive to be more careful.

Plus, being treated shouldn't mean automatic full reinstatement of all abilities to 100%.

And being a medic, I agree shouldn't be about playing a little role-playing simulator where you should know what to apply for what wound: as a medic, I assume that ability is just "there". Kind of like being a pilot, you don't need all the pilot training knowledge to fly a helo. It's not a study sim, the goal is how you use an asset, not the precise simulation of all aspects of that asset.

IMO natch.

[afp 1]

You create issues for yourself yourself.

The problem still remain, once the system activated, instead of a "medical kit" you need to use 6-7 different accesories to patch a wound, taking 6-7 times longer. The "revive" system is pretty much the same thing, just not having the medical supplies. I can accept there are people who like to play the medic role and using all that stuff. Probablly a normal "rifleman" shouldn't be even allowed to carry all those medica things but he should be able to patch a wound.

[dragon01 902]

The problem is, IIRC, a wound is a wound, even in the ACE system, but not in real life. A normal rifleman should be able to patch a small wound that didn't really do much damage, but more serious stuff like a broken bone would require a dedicated corpsman's attention. Self help should also be available in some cases. It's possible, if somewhat clumsy, to apply first aid to yourself if you need to, but more serious wounds require a corpsman to treat. In general, I feel that the wounding system should be a lot more complex. America's Army 3 does a step in the right direction, but it's not there yet. Modeling damage to nerves, blood vessels and bones, as well as internal organs would be required for a fully realistic medic system. This should be based on a number of factors including what caused the wound (burns? shrapnel? bullet, and what caliber?), where it was located, if there were other wounds, if the wound area was armored... Finally, some sort of morale/stress mechanic would be needed to simulate pain and it's suppression. Being hit actually hurts less when you're in the middle of a firefight, due to adrenaline suppressing the pain, but once the "combat high" wears down, it starts to hurt a lot more.

I'm afraid it'd be a bit too complex to implement in the game (and make AI work with it, it's important for an SP guy like me) though.

[metalcraze 290]

The problem still remain, once the system activated, instead of a "medical kit" you need to use 6-7 different accesories to patch a wound, taking 6-7 times longer.

In ACE to patch a wound you need nothing but bandages. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.

You need morphine and epinephrine for disability states but that's pretty much it.

Sure if you bled quite a lot you may need more bandages but that's the point. It shouldn't be a magic "press magical healing button" and wait for 5 seconds full heal like it is now -plus with infinite medic supplies. ArmA3 is ridiculously bad in this aspect - in 5 seconds your soldier goes from barely alive to 'nothing ever happened'. It's just ridiculous and makes ArmA3 play like Dragon Rising in this regard.

Getting shot should be punished incl. by taking a minute to recover from a heavy wound (and not to a full health).

Edited May 6, 2013 by metalcraze

[afp 1]

Well, in real life a serious wound pretty much gets you out of fight, for days or forever, so staying longer and more complicated to patch a wound is not really more "realistic". At a practical level, I could see myself what happened, everybody was filling their backpacks with medical stuff and spent most of the time patching each other. I agree with "infinite medic supplies" though.

[nimrod123 11]

if you want realistic you need a system where being hit = medevac, and combat ineffective, all medics would do is ensure they don't die, but that player is for all intents dead

therefore for a mission like this being hit may as well kill you and the medic can "treat" you for score, but that player is gone/respawned