Altis and Stratis on one physical map. What do you think?

[kamaradski 10]

With the streaming technology ARMA uses, you could make maps almost as big as you want without any impact on FPS, as your computer is not aware about any terain or objects outside your range. (as far as i know)

And for the seafloor in between, this could all be created with a randomizer and a hightmap, only the seabed close to shore need high details. So again i dont see this factor stopping the DEVs.

[captncaps 25]

if you do this make it like ArmA (1):

stratis on it's map

altis on it's map

and a 3rd map with both

[mr.g-c 6]

With the streaming technology ARMA uses, you could make maps almost as big as you want without any impact on FPS, as your computer is not aware about any terain or objects outside your range. (as far as i know)

And for the seafloor in between, this could all be created with a randomizer and a hightmap, only the seabed close to shore need high details. So again i dont see this factor stopping the DEVs.

Exactly this was my thought. Streaming Technology should solve the performance issues.

Obviously, if you set Viewdistance to 10km+ and they put the water-distance between the two islands around that 10km, you would have a performance impact as the other island might be rendered if you are at the shore or so...

Its a huge win for scenarios and gameplay, even if there wont be much naval units from BIS, remember there are modders out here that will take care about it. :-)

Hughe MP Battles with the Stratis Airport as FOB and all the missions on Altis with helo or naval insertion. Awesome!

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

if you do this make it like ArmA (1):

stratis on it's map

altis on it's map

and a 3rd map with both

I don't remember ArmA1 had Sahrani without Rahmadi? At least not in the basic version without Expansion package....

[teaboy 11]

I like the idea of combining the maps. Then we would have a large island on the map rendering naval assets more important if wanted and the second airport which is pretty important in my opinion. It's like win-win, can't figure out any cons except slightly lower FPS (not sure though). Especially the second airport would be really neat addition, because without it numerous scenarios, maps and game modes can't be properly done.

I agree regarding second airport as both islands have only 1 airport each, so if they are kept as separate maps, as soon as one side gets the airport (and if they have good pilots and with good laser designators on the ground (if any are needed in 2035), then its pretty much game over for the over side, either that or the MP games just becomes a constant slug fest over the 1 airport!

Having both islands on one map would grant both sides an airport each, but once 1 side loses their airport then they'd have to switch to getting the airport back on their own island as a bigger priority to invading the other island. So both teams will be forced to attack the other island whilst also ensuring the airport is well defended too to put off the enemies side from attacking the airport. So two islands makes for better tactical planning for each sides commander and will improve cooperation between players. Off course you will still get lone wolf's but if that's how they like to play let them.

Off course they could do both have them as two separate maps and a 3rd map where both islands are on the same map.

Also MP server admins can set maximum view distance, and not everyone will have the view distance set at 10km a lot will have it set at 5km.

Also once your flying at a certain altitude you can actually see the whole island of stratis depending on your view distance settings, even if your settings are less then 10km.

Proof of this is as below

My View distance settings:

Environment - 4107

Object - 2235

Go to editor and place a unit in the middle of stratis at an elevation of 1500 then click preview. Once in the game look around you can see the whole map from end to end in all directions even when i have the above environment and object view distances. Startis Map from end to end is over 7km. No noticeable drop in performance.

So that's proof that having both islands on same map will not cause a major performance drop at all. Though i haven't tested FPS or with tons of AI - But then my game runs perfectly on high to ultra high settings on an Intel® Core i7 CPU 860 @2.80GHz, 4gb Ram, ATI Radeon HD5770.

Just done the same Test with below settings and still no noticeable drop in performance

Environment - 10219 - 360 radius view distance of 20.4KM

Objects - 4989 - 360 radius object draw of 10.98km

Also tested for a 3rd time using 2nd tests enviromant and object draw distances with 1 Opfor Base in and 1 Bluefor Base both set at 0.9 in the marina town (can think of name) and no noticeable drop in performance then either despite the mini battle going on. No video settings were changed.

Edited April 26, 2013 by teaboy

[sproyd 2]

Good job TeaBoy - hopefully that is applicable though? I'm not an expert with these kind of things but I can imagine the demands on the server would be high (rather than the client ^^^) and the loading times could be pretty excessive. There could be other implications I'm guessing?

EDIT: Just tried your "test" and dropped from 50fps to 30fps when increasing view distance from c 4,000m to 10,000m. So not sure I agree with your theory.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sproyd

[RuecanOnRails 10]

Loading times wouldn't be too bad for such a large landmass, comparable to possibly to south east asia map from take on helicopters. That map featured 120 x 120 km The seattle map comes in at about half that size. Although those maps lacked a fair bit of detail as they are meant to be seen from the sky, not the ground.

I was unaware that there is already a submarine mod for arma 3... Looks like fun. I still stand by my original thoughts that both islands on one map would only be acceptable if they keep the real to life scale and built upon official sea combat. I could only imagine a combination of arma 3 and silent hunter 5

[teaboy 11]

Good job TeaBoy - hopefully that is applicable though? I'm not an expert with these kind of things but I can imagine the demands on the server would be high (rather than the client ^^^) and the loading times could be pretty excessive. There could be other implications I'm guessing?

EDIT: Just tried your "test" and dropped from 50fps to 30fps when increasing view distance from c 4,000m to 10,000m. So not sure I agree with your theory.

What are your system Specs?

I suspect the drop in FPS will differ for each machine, i wasn't able to test FPS when i did my test, so i tested via any noticeable visual difference such as any stuttering (which there wasn't any). Also as its Alpha still they probably still have a lot of optimization to do too which would hopefully lessen any FPS drop.

Ultimately most people will not play with 10Km view distance or with object distance above 4km because when on the ground your view distance is limited to what terrain is in front of you. For example if you are in a Valley your view distance will be limited to inside that valley. If on a hill top with a higher a hill top across the valley then when looking in that direction your view distance will be limited to the higher hill top. So only time you get to see your the total view distance (as set in your settings) is in the air, on a high hill top or when looking out to sea or when your in an area of flat land that extends beyond your view distance setting.

Also FPS drop could largely be to the increase object draw distance, so lowering that whilst still having 10Km view distance should increase the FPS, though i haven't tested it so its just in theory, as any object that is beyond your object distance is not drawn so all that is generated beyond your object draw distance setting is terrain only.

Though ultimately view distance and object distance is down to what each player feels is acceptable and makes the game playable to them. Players with lower computer specs won't be able to have the full view distance and high object draw, so they would have to find a balance between those two settings and acceptable FPS rate, but so would the majority of players i suspect. Most Server Admins will likely force a maximum view and object distance on to players playing on their server anyway, just like in Arma 2.

At he end of the day its perfectly possible to have both islands on one map, and view distance and object draw will be different for each player and depend on what they find is an acceptable balance for them or it will depend on what maximum settings the server admin allow for view and object distance when playing on their server. What the distance between the two islands on one map will be, would be down to what the devs believe is an acceptable for game play.

Loading times wouldn't be too bad for such a large landmass, comparable to possibly to south east asia map from take on helicopters. That map featured 120 x 120 km The seattle map comes in at about half that size. Although those maps lacked a fair bit of detail as they are meant to be seen from the sky, not the ground.

I was unaware that there is already a submarine mod for arma 3... Looks like fun. I still stand by my original thoughts that both islands on one map would only be acceptable if they keep the real to life scale and built upon official sea combat. I could only imagine a combination of arma 3 and silent hunter 5

Yeah i only found the image of the submarine mod when i was looking to see what ship mods were already available for Arma 3 - though i have not yet found a download link for it which is a shame.

Yeah the TOH Map's are not as detailed for the reason you stated, but then a lower object draw distance in Arma 3 would result in a similar effect where terrain is viewable up to your view distance setting but objects not drawn beyond the object distance in your settings.

Edited April 28, 2013 by teaboy

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

I'd prefer to have a new map about the size of Altis which is broken up into several islands and fjords

^ this - Can't see the point of Altis and Stratis on 1 map? If you look at the southern Agean near Naxos there are lots of islands close together (or the Skiathos / Skopelos chain), that's the sort of thing you need, a small archipelago to capture. It's what worked best in other games, having 2 fairly large islands together is a bit pointless.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'd prefer to have a new map about the size of Altis which is broken up into several islands and fjords

Maybe with the raised sea level functionality we saw with the ArmA 2 Czech forces addon we might get that with Altis :)

With the added bonus of underwater buildings to navigate in scuba...

[mr.g-c 6]

having 2 fairly large islands together is a bit pointless.

Lol, Altis is x-times that large as Stratis....

[Blaf 1]

I was unaware that there is already a submarine mod for arma 3... Looks like fun. I still stand by my original thoughts that both islands on one map would only be acceptable if they keep the real to life scale and built upon official sea combat. I could only imagine a combination of arma 3 and silent hunter 5

It can also improve the proper use of jets...

[[evo] dan 79]

Maybe with the raised sea level functionality we saw with the ArmA 2 Czech forces addon we might get that with Altis :)

With the added bonus of underwater buildings to navigate in scuba...

This, it would actually be cool.

Also I would like to have both on one map,would be cool for some long range ops/warfare/amphib invasion scenarios (provided that bis uses physx to allow us to walk and drive onto moving vehicles)

[Mirudes 1]

I was in the wrong assumption that it will be like that.

[nmdanny 22]

Having Altis and Stratis on the same map would introduce several strategical opportunities:

For example, Stratis could be a training/main base for a certain faction, and that faction could invade Altis with amphibious vehicles, ships, submarines and aircraft.

Two separate islands would have a lot of water between them, and this would allow large-scale naval battles with big ships, as opposed to small patrol boats sailing around the coast.

[mr.g-c 6]

Having Altis and Stratis on the same map would introduce several strategical opportunities:

For example, Stratis could be a training/main base for a certain faction, and that faction could invade Altis with amphibious vehicles, ships, submarines and aircraft.

Two separate islands would have a lot of water between them, and this would allow large-scale naval battles with big ships, as opposed to small patrol boats sailing around the coast.

Exactly :-)

The scenario ideas the community will come up with, will be nearly endless.

[Blaf 1]

Exactly...

[bigpickle 0]

would love to see this happen, not sure exactly how my machine would cope with it but hey id love to try it. Only thing i reckon might be an issue would be the difference in the terrain map style as clearly straits is micro terrain and i doubt altis will be

[NicotinKickballovich 1]

Don't think there's a need for it, Altis alone seems too big already. But there are many map-makers working on new islands constantly so I bet we'll get to enjoy a luxury similar to these islands.

[b00tsy 28]

I would like to see both maps as one. By the looks of it ALTIS only has 1 airfield, with both maps combined we will have 2. I really like the Takistan map because it has 2 airfields. Altis has 1 airfield in the center of the map, ideally I would like to have seen that on the edge of the map and an other airfield on the opposite side. For missions that would have been very useful. I only have seen Altis from the pic on the website, but I hope it will be more divers terrain then Stratis. On Stratis all the hills are almost the same hight and all the bases are on top of the hills, hope to see bases more tucked away in valleys instead on top of hills.

Edited May 15, 2013 by B00tsy

[zimms 22]

Or place a fully controlable aircraft carrier in the sea. :rolleyes:

[b00tsy 28]

Or place a fully controlable aircraft carrier in the sea. :rolleyes:

Nah that aint good enough, both opfor/bluefor should have an airfield on land.

[Hammerballz 10]

Voted up. Like the idea having such combined map.. Performance issues will be sorted out since final I think :P

[[evo] dan 79]

voted up as it would be nice to have more space to play on for the aircraft.

[KevsNoTrev 44]

it would be cool to have a script guru work out a way of having you 'leave' an island (server) and it puts you onto another island (server) and you have all of your gear the same as when you left the other one....

this could make a REAL world size mission that can take hours to go anywhere.

it would mean when the standalone server exe is available one phyisical server (hardware) could be running two or three islands and they could all be running the same 'mission'

it would be epic. just think of the bandwidth and desync issues though.

[Mirudes 1]

it would be cool to have a script guru work out a way of having you 'leave' an island (server) and it puts you onto another island (server) and you have all of your gear the same as when you left the other one....

this could make a REAL world size mission that can take hours to go anywhere.

it would mean when the standalone server exe is available one phyisical server (hardware) could be running two or three islands and they could all be running the same 'mission'

it would be epic. just think of the bandwidth and desync issues though.

- You can save your health status and your equipment local on your machine. There is already a online mission out there, where you can save 10 predefined sets. But a cheater could manipulate this "savegame".

- Using Savegames: This technic is known from campaigns, that your safe all the important details to a file (savegame) and use this for the further gameplay. The only thing that used to be changed is the suffix "*.stratis" to "*.limnox" when you want to switch between those.

- It would also be possible that BIS finds a way to use the official islands as parameters, like that you could use startup parameters "-stratis; -limnox" when you know that you are going to play a mission on these two islands.

Back to topic: I guess this request can be easy solved whis a community-made addon.

Edit:

How about creating an instance? I would like to have the two islands (maps) connected to one mission. Where a player can easily move from one server (Stratis) to another (Altis). And as a mission maker if I wanted an open water map in between these two maps... I think some of you can see the possibilities.

This can probably be done now thru a persistent database and simply changing servers. But what if this can be done quickly (not MMORPG/PS2/SWTOR quickly) but have the infrastructure already included in the engine. I know BIS has thought about it. They have discussed it for their other project that uses a similar engine.

Imagine what a mission maker can do if he can take his mission and spread it over several instanced servers. All of these servers with there own unique island (map). Islands, continents, buildings, static ships, open water, and dungeons. Do you see the possibilities?

Edited May 20, 2013 by Mirudes