Movement speed tweaking

[stun 5]

Are the Dev team still reviewing the movment speeds?

As someone who mainly plays SP/Editor and isn't obsessed with realism I have found the new sprint speed to be quite frustrating. Appart from the animation change I can't see much difference between the run and sprint speeds. If the intention of the sprint is to provide a short burst of speed to enable a player to get to cover, then the current speed feels frustratingly slow i.e. like a fast jog.

I know that MP players who are into realism made a loud case for slowing the sprint speed, but it almost feels like the dev team have toned it down too much -in my humble opinion there should be an obvious diffence between run and sprint which is no longer the case.

Judging by the votes on the feedback tracker where the original request to slow the sprint speed down was raised I don't appear to be alone as 47% of the votes were against any change. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3164

Hopefully the Devs can achieve a balance that will satisfy gamers and players that are into realism. Surely those that strive for maximum realism can satisfy their desire by creating and using Mods (such as ACE did for Arma 2). After all a large but probably non vocal proportion of Arma 3 players probably play Arma 3 as a game and not as a hard core simulator.

I'm not asking for the sprint speed to returned to the original alpha release values, but it would be nice if consideration could be given to speeding it up slightly in relation to the current run speed.

Edited June 2, 2013 by stun

[Zeni 10]

Developers version: 0.61.105957.

Like few people mentioned before, crouching and standing jogging/sprinting speed are exactly the same, which is a step back from Arma 2 (you couldn't sprint when crouched) and leads to everyone moving in crouching positions all the time. I noticed that fatigue kicks in slightly earlier in crouching stance but it still doesn't have that big negative effect since you can steady your aim pretty fast when crouched even when breathing heavily.

My wish is, try slightly reducing crouching jog/sprint speed or increase standing jog/sprint speed and make each of those stances have their unique functions.

[stun 5]

I agree the crouch speeds do seem too fast. There should difinitely be more obvious speed diference between the different stances and running speeds. Crouch should be slower than equivalent standing stances, and sprint noticeably faster than run etc.

[metalcraze 290]

Judging by the votes on the feedback tracker where the original request to slow the sprint speed down was raised I don't appear to be alone as 47% of the votes were against any change

They seem to be more against badly worded ticket.

Different result here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5509

But slowing sprinting speed was more of a bandaid, the issue wasn't really with it.

I agree the crouch speeds do seem too fast. There should difinitely be more obvious speed diference between the different stances and running speeds. Crouch should be slower than equivalent standing stances, and sprint noticeably faster than run etc.

I agree, crouch-run is a rather big exploit now together with forgiving fatigue effect.

Although ArmA3 movement is still terrible in general. 3 months past alpha's release, almost into beta which will not be focused on fixing infantry anymore and the movement in ArmA3 feels very arcadish and no different from floating camera shooters. They can limit sprinting speed but it makes no difference because you have no momentum. The soldier instantly switches between standing and max speed without any transition making sprinting an exploit.

Edited June 3, 2013 by metalcraze

[chortles 263]

Although ArmA3 movement is still terrible in general. 3 months past alpha's release, almost into beta which will not be focused on fixing infantry anymore and the movement in ArmA3 feels very arcadish and no different from floating camera shooters. They can limit sprinting speed but it makes no difference because you have no momentum.

Isn't the infantry movement noticeably different now from how it was at the initial alpha release after the movement speed reductions?

[nesponge 0]

In all honesty I preferred the animations and movement in ARMA 2

At least it felt realistic.

Ever tried aiming while running in real life?

[nikita320106 0]

any chance to change upDegree = "ManPosCombat" from RifleBaseStandActions to RifleKneelActions for then we're would see bots used crouch movement in combat more often?

[stun 5]

In all honesty I preferred the animations and movement in ARMA 2

At least it felt realistic.

Ever tried aiming while running in real life?

What was realistic about the movement in Arma 2? If I found myself walking like the Arma 2 animations in real life I would definitely book a visit to see my doctor. This is a game and for it be profitable it has to remain accesible to new players as well as satisfying the existing fan base. I'm pretty sure that new players who haven't grown up with the series and all its quirks would soon become frustrated with the terrible clunky Arma 2 animations.

I've never tried aiming a rifle while moving at combat pace, have you? Although I'm pretty sure modern combat sights make it a lot easier. Making something difficult doesn't necessarily make it more realistic. If you want to dicuss realism, gun sights don't move around as much in real life as they do in Arma 3 when prone or kneeling. It's all about balancing realisim with game play elements.

At the end of the day if BI make Arma 3 too elitist they won't sell as many units. Alot of what the realism people want can be modded into the game. For me the thing i've always loved about the Arma/Flashpoint series has been its abiltity to completely immerse me in the Armaverse; this was down to game balance, not realism.

Edited June 3, 2013 by stun
Fixed typo

[Zorg_DK 10]

I think sprint should be a little faster.

[Masharra 10]

What was realistic about the movement in Arma 2? If I found myself walking like the Arma 2 animations in real life I would definitely book a visit to see my doctor. This is a game and for it be profitable it has to remain accesible to new players as well as satisfying the existing fan base. I'm pretty sure that new players who haven't grown up with the series and all its quirks would soon become frustrated with the terrible clunky Arma 2 animations.

I've never tried aiming a rifle while moving at combat pace, have you? Although I'm pretty sure modern combat sights make it a lot easier. Making something difficult doesn't necessarily make it more realistic. If you want to dicuss realism, gun sights don't move around as much in real life as they do in Arma 3 when prone or kneeling. It's all about balancing realisim with game play elements.

At the end of the day if BI make Arma 3 too elitist they won't sell as many units. Alot of what the realism people want can be modded into the game. For me the thing i've always loved about the Arma/Flashpoint series has been its abiltity to completely immerse me in the Armaverse; this was down to game balance, not realism.

You didnt finish the bolded statement. You only addressed the new players and ignored said old player who stated his preference. Umm so what if they become frustrated? I was frustrated with C&C generals, RA3, DOW2 sooo? Who would have thought some people dont like some aspects of some games. Tough luck.

I have. I sorta lol at how much easier pretty much everything is in this game. The utter lack of intertia really just makes me unable to be immersed at times. This may be being stupid/ crazy but arma 2 movement felt as if it had weight. From a sprint to a stop felt like your leg stiffened as you tried slowing down. As it stands Asteroids feels like it has more weight than arma 3.

Everything about arma's overall movement is perfect. Too perfect infact. The fact that I can move the same speeds through the jungles of Lingor and the streets of Zargabad should easily illustrate that. I can climb the mountains of Takistan as easily as I can climb the mountains of Chernarus. I grew up jungle monkey in south america, lived in nyc, was stationed in FT. Richardson Alaska. I sprained my ankle, fell and rolled down a hill, etc in each of them. That simply doesnt happen in arma. There was one game that had it I simply cant remember it now.or It may have been a dream of my personal perfect arma.

Actually Ive heard the saying about head floating on shoulders, I would argue it is more severe than that, the soldiers feet never actually interact with the ground. Its just visual. I mean you "slow" down going uphill as in you are forced to walk, do you speed up going downhill?

I would also argue arma 3 is "just" as clunky. We just havent had 5+ years to stare at them.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Masharra

[stun 5]

@Masharra

Sorry I thought I had addressed it when I said they need to satisfy their existing fanbase. The difference is that "old" players know that the game can be modded to suit their needs and since they have already put up with the quirks for a long time are unlikely to quit due to frustration. My point is there needs to be compromise. I've seen a lot of threads where it looks to me like the MP realism crowd are determining the direction of the Alpha. As an "old" player (who bought the flashpoint Gold edition in late 2001/early 2002) who prefers SP I wanted to offer a different perspective by highlighting the fact that not everyone wants vanilla Arma 3 to be an elite total realism simulator.

I agree with you about the current lack of inertia and it would be nice to see this addressed but in all honesty I couldn't bear to see the Arma 2 movement animations make a return.

Personally I thought smookie and the other devs did a great job with the animations and movement speeds at the time of release.

Edited June 3, 2013 by stun

[metalcraze 290]

I couldn't bear to see the Arma 2 movement animations make a return.

Someone wants ArmA2 animations back?

I've seen a lot of threads where it looks to me like the MP realism crowd are determining the direction of the Alpha.

Let's see:

5 seconds heal medkits, unlimited heal medics, being able to run forever without any kind of punishment but darkened edges of the screen, machine guns and antimateriel rifles lacking any kind of weight providing for 360 noscope potential among other things - yes that's totally a realism crowd being in charge.

If anything ArmA3 is the first game in the series where BIS is shying away from the word "simulation" replacing it with "sandbox" and using "streamlining" and "accessibility" instead (which in the -current- state of ArmA3 reinforce the rule that those 2 terms mean exactly what Jay Crowe didn't want them to mean - maybe it will change, maybe it won't) in previews for mainstream crowd. While ironically on ArmA2.com ArmA3 is called "the next installment of military simulation" - because you know, you have to sell it to the original fans too, dayZ crowd won't check that website. After all we can always rely on ACE mod to fix the game, isn't it?

That and growing hostility since mid-2012 towards mentioning realism on ArmA3 forum mean that realism crowd is anything but in charge. You should be happy.

As an "old" player (who bought the flashpoint Gold edition in late 2001/early 2002) who prefers SP I wanted to offer a different perspective by highlighting the fact that not everyone wants vanilla Arma 3 to be an elite total realism simulator.

For SP in ArmA3 you have unlimited savegames which if anything make it less of an "Elite Tier 1 simulator" than OFP.

Edited June 4, 2013 by metalcraze

[chortles 263]

Someone wants ArmA2 animations back?

Looked like it to me on the prior page:

In all honesty I preferred the animations and movement in ARMA 2

Plus there was that guy who very early on ended up ragequitting out of the forums with an unkind remark at Smookie's mo-cap after an animations dev dared to defend their work on Arma 3 and one (I believe Smookie?) even criticized Arma 2's animation(s)...

For SP in ArmA3 you have unlimited savegames which if anything make it less of an "Elite Tier 1 simulator" than OFP.

Did the devs give any ETA on when they're changing that? I don't recall the one SITREP (or was it a SPOTREP) giving an ETA.

[stun 5]

@metalcraze

In all honesty I preferred the animations and movement in ARMA 2

At least it felt realistic.

I'm not saying that the original Alpha was high in realism. The point I've tried to make is that it is slowly getting pushed that way judging by the number of issues raised on the tracker saying "fix this as it isn't real". I'm happy with many of the requested changes asking for realism and have upvoted quite a few of them. All I am hoping for is a balanced game that pleases the many rather than the few.

I guess my particular beef is with the dev teams clumsy handling of some of the changes and in particular their nerfing of the sprint speed to satisfy a tracker requst change for a "realistic" sprint speed (Don't even get me started on the darkened screen edges change). If I'm going to get punished for sprinting at least make it worth doing. As it stands the sprint is so slow, it's not worth switching from run.

Rant over. Ninja'd by chortles!

Edited June 4, 2013 by stun

[chrisb 196]

In all honesty I preferred the animations and movement in ARMA 2

At least it felt realistic.

Ever tried aiming while running in real life?

Agree with that to a certain extent..

Players bemoan A2 movement, but given a choice now, this minute, to pick from the two types we have A2-A3 movement/feel, I would pick A2 with the pbo set I use now, that’s just a personal preference.

Graphics have never been an issue for me, its all about game-play, the way we have A2 setup at the moment is pretty much perfect for us. Not only that but the A2 graphics still stand up, for me anyway.

I would think it’s hard to find the balance for BIS concerning A3, they are doing a great job at the moment and its early days still, we just have to give them the time to layout what their vision is for the future of the series, its not quite out there yet, can’t figure out for sure where its going to settle, have an idea though.

I’m not too concerned really, A2 is there and done, if nothing else was added to A2, even if the updates stopped, its got a decade or more left in it, play wise.

However, it is being updated and there are some great mod/addons still coming out. So staying with A2 will not be a hardship or disappointment, should that be the case.

[metalcraze 290]

Looked like it to me on the prior page:Plus there was that guy who very early on ended up ragequitting out of the forums with an unkind remark at Smookie's mo-cap after an animations dev dared to defend their work on Arma 3 and one (I believe Smookie?) even criticized Arma 2's animation(s)...

ArmA2 animations themselves are a lot worse (not mentioning lacking RavenShield-like stance system) but soldier did feel bulkier and more loaded. You had to slow down to navigate narrow passages. There was also a turn-speed limit. A3 feels closer to Unreal Tournament in terms of movement than to ArmA. And the fix is easy: add inertia to sprint (jog can be kept as is), add small turn-speed limit to jog, add bigger turn-speed limit to sprint. Problem solved. But the chances of this happening are becoming more slim with every passing week and there's no indication of BIS even considering fixing the ability to rotate like a propeller while running fullspeed and instantly changing direction to the opposite.

Smookie said he considered adding turn-speed limit to prone stance... but it was nearly 3 months ago and nothing has happened since then.

Did the devs give any ETA on when they're changing that? I don't recall the one SITREP (or was it a SPOTREP) giving an ETA.

No ETA but unlimited saves will still remain on recruit. You can still disable every helper and leave unlimited savegames on.

Edited June 4, 2013 by metalcraze

[Masharra 10]

I honestly really didnt mind the actual animations of A2 it was its transitions that needed work in my eyes. the stopping in-between pretty much everything, the odd climbing of ladders, etc but thankfully thats all gone in a3. Oddly enough the one place where you would stop and take a bit of time, grenades, has sped up and has the most fluid animation+ transition in my eyes.

Bash other fps's all you want, but they sure do lots of work on transitions and animations.

Actually wait a second. wait a second. I may be late to the party here. I just watched a video of the grenade throwing. The soldier always has one hand on the weapon. How does the pin get pulled?

yea Im late to the party... :D too much a2 in my diet to notice these things

Edited June 4, 2013 by Masharra

[maddogx 13]

Actually wait a second. wait a second. I may be late to the party here. I just watched a video of the grenade throwing. The soldier always has one hand on the weapon. How does the pin get pulled?

Not at all, apparently. ;)

[ak1287 1]

So far I've seen 3 people who preferred Arma 2's movement... Which makes me believe they've never actually moved in their lives.

Even in it's incomplete form, Arma 3's movement is just better; it's smoother, it's not nearly as clunky (and don't even pull that 'We haven't stared at it for 5 years' Mash, that doesn't matter), and it's animated better.

Are there problems? Yes.

Is it STILL better than Arma 2's system? Absolutely.

[Masharra 10]

So far I've seen 3 people who preferred Arma 2's movement... Which makes me believe they've never actually moved in their lives.

Even in it's incomplete form, Arma 3's movement is just better; it's smoother, it's not nearly as clunky (and don't even pull that 'We haven't stared at it for 5 years' Mash, that doesn't matter), and it's animated better.

Are there problems? Yes.

Is it STILL better than Arma 2's system? Absolutely.

On the contrary good sir. Ive moved with 100+ gear on my back and a 81mm baseplate on my ruck. Want to guess which movement games movement was closer to how I and other mortarmen moved? heres a hint its not 3. Sure 3 may be closer to how light bang bangs moved but pfft Its rare that I ever see a unit actually carry "realistic" gear ingame.

I would prefer the adjective.. Different.

[ak1287 1]

On the contrary good sir. Ive moved with 100+ gear on my back and a 81mm baseplate on my ruck. Want to guess which movement games movement was closer to how I and other mortarmen moved? heres a hint its not 3. Sure 3 may be closer to how light bang bangs moved but pfft Its rare that I ever see a unit actually carry "realistic" gear ingame.

I would prefer the adjective.. Different.

Having never been mortar, I'll defer to you on that.

I was infantry, however. And I'll tell you right now, if someone moved like they did in Arma 2 in our unit, we would have shot him to put him out of his geriatric misery.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Today I finally tried some of the PP fatigue blur that is getting such a rave review and to my surprise I love it.Combined with the annoying breathing it makes it so that I seem to worry that I wont be able to fight effectively rather than be super annoyed,as I thought I would be.When I first started playing A3 some guy said to the squad I was running with that we should catch a breather behind next rock.I laughed and thought WTF for??Now its a different story.

Would love to see more animations implemented to add even more headaches to huge armory geared players.One is the slowed feel when you move around with an AT in hands should translate also to when AT is equipped back onto back and you have primary in hand.Another animation set I would like to see is the new sniper rifles getting an animation close to what you feel when running around with an AT.You just can't sprint and run and be free the way you can right now with the standard animation.

[Masharra 10]

mortar men are infantry atleast here they are. It really depends on your units sop on gear weight and your operation. the 11b's - gi, were usually quite "light", then came 11c- mortarmen, medics, rto's, etc etc. I was airborne also and from my experience not one fully loaed soldier ive seen can move the way they move in a3. Breakneck turns and instastopping on a dime. Like really? Its like people have never lifted a javelin before. Jav's usually equipped with the missile system and a m9. They aint turning worth shit with the system in hand. Actually no, they can turn.

sure deployed when all you have is your vest 10 mags 2 nades and your weapon and your ruck is lying at your feet . Otherwise if you can move with all gear like in a3 you must be using a3's 2035 superlightweight gear.

Pfft I know 11b 240b gunners too, they were usually lagging back with us them making the movement. I call bull.

There is a difference between travelling like https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/537206_10152399395500106_874451064_n.jpg and travelling like http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HaRb8uwch8o/ScvVGlRfIyI/AAAAAAAAB80/61T_PWKObFM/s400/skysoldierOIF.jpg

neither of which is demonstrated in any arma game that I know of, besides Arma 2 ACE.

Though I must ask were you part of a qrf? I know a few of those guys that went out with 6 mags, weapon, and 2 grenades. effin nutters

hhc 3/509th abn 4/25th. you?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Masharra

[lev 21]

mortar men are infantry atleast here they are. It really depends on your units sop on gear weight and your operation. the 11b's - gi, were usually quite "light", then came 11c- mortarmen, medics, rto's, etc etc. I was airborne also and from my experience not one fully loaed soldier ive seen can move the way they move in a3. Breakneck turns and instastopping on a dime. Like really? Its like people have never lifted a javelin before. Jav's usually equipped with the missile system and a m9. They aint turning worth shit with the system in hand. Actually no, they can turn.

sure deployed when all you have is your vest 10 mags 2 nades and your weapon and your ruck is lying at your feet . Otherwise if you can move with all gear like in a3 you must be using a3's 2035 superlightweight gear.

Pfft I know 11b 240b gunners too, they were usually lagging back with us them making the movement. I call bull.

There is a difference between travelling like https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/537206_10152399395500106_874451064_n.jpg and travelling like http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HaRb8uwch8o/ScvVGlRfIyI/AAAAAAAAB80/61T_PWKObFM/s400/skysoldierOIF.jpg

neither of which is demonstrated in any arma game that I know of, besides Arma 2 ACE.

Though I must ask were you part of a qrf? I know a few of those guys that went out with 6 mags, weapon, and 2 grenades. effin nutters

hhc 3/509th abn 4/25th. you?

Thanks for the post. I've always felt like A3 movement speeds were way too fast. This makes it way too easy and effective to just go running through exposed areas. This problem gets even worse when machine guns in A3 are pretty much useless atm.

[Masharra 10]

Its not really that it is too fast. Its that what you carry has no "real" impact on your movement other than stamina and I "THINK" movement speed (slightly). e.g. I can keep up a "reasonable" jog/shuffle with all my gear on my back for about 10miles. Take away most of the gear I can either go faster or further or a mixture of both.

I can not turn on a dime, sprint, dive, get up, roll left, side step, and vault over objects the same as with without said gear. There is or I should say I experienced a significant change in mobility between

1. Travelling light

2. Travelling heavy

3. Travelling with a mortar tube in my hand

4. Travelling with a mortar baseplate on my back.

I witnessed significant changes in mobility with other soldiers.

The mobility of a 240/saw gunner was way less than that of a simple rifleman.

As it stands, correct me if I am mistaken, everyone moves as if they are only carrying a rifle. (barring stamina and speed) Now ofcourse I personally would prefer a middle ground between A2 and A3 movements and turning. Carrying just enough to survive one fire fight sure go ahead and run around like Olympic sprinter, carrying everything under the sun, not only should you move slower, exhaust faster, but also turn and do additional movements at a more restricted rate.

Currently we are at the fps standard where it doesnt matter what you carry other than for running. Actually Im not even sure about that, cod may have you turn slower with mg's and such but I cant remember it has been a while.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Masharra
End rant I think my position is known.