Movement speed tweaking

[Zeni 10]

Excellent changes, feels much more real now (sprint was ridicilous before), keep it like this.

[antoineflemming 14]

Excellent changes, feels much more real now (sprint was ridicilous before), keep it like this.

After they fix the messed up animations, of course.

[chortles 263]

I quite liked the initial release speeds. But maybe they (optics view) where a bit too fast, I could have lived with it though, it felt nice. I wouldn't make them any slower than they are now. I think comparing speed and movements to Arma2 is not a good idea. This (Arma3) is a new take on how we move around and interact with the world. An attempt to retain realism while removing "clunkyness". As I said, I think they did a good job with the way it was in the initial release. It only needs very slight refining. Most of the things that I felt needed changing where related to animations transitions and animations in general.

Agreed with the sentiments really; I was perfectly fine with the initial release speeds, but even now both stable build and dev build feel less nauseating than Arma 2 movement.

I am admittedly wondering though why the "prone sitting" animation is so visibly slower with a sidearm than with a primary weapon...

[chortles 263]

The fatigue issue are rather prone to overall design decisions.

Thanks for actually confirming that this is what's been up with fatigue/encumbrance playing seemingly not much role thusfar.

[2nd ranger 282]

Can we get a better animation for sprinting?

The sprinting animation looks too much like the jogging one, I think there should be a bigger difference for more of a fast, kinetic look, perhaps leaning more forward. I also agree with others who said the sprint should be a bit faster but you should only be able to sprint for a short time before going back to jogging. Also, maybe it has been addressed already but why is there no slow crouch-walk with a pistol now? Apart from the animation being too fast, there should be a slow, cautious movement in all movement stances.

Edited April 18, 2013 by 2nd Ranger

[krigar 1]

nice nice nice

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

nice addition of the weakside transition with the rifle, only problem is that the way it's done is wrong. when you switch to your weakside, your hands also swap. i would recommend watching Art of the tactical carbine.

[HKFlash 9]

By the way can the walking unarmed speed be toned down?

[madrussian 347]

Excellent changes, feels much more real now (sprint was ridiculous before), keep it like this.

+1, yes standing sprint feels so much more like real life now. Just perfect, please keep it like this!

Also, minor quibble: Seems like the new crouch sprint should be a somewhat slower than the standing sprint, but as far as I can tell the two are pretty much exactly the same speed. Anyhow, imo everything is much better now in terms of speeds, many thanks indeed. :)

[machineabuse 11]

Dynamo;2376312']nice addition of the weakside transition with the rifle' date=' only problem is that the way it's done is wrong. when you switch to your weakside, your hands also swap. i would recommend watching Art of the tactical carbine.[/quote']

With respect, the Magpul method of weakside transitions is "a" method, not "the" method. The method in ArmA 3 is the "cross-shoulder" transition.

[chortles 263]

With respect, the Magpul method of weakside transitions is "a" method, not "the" method. The method in ArmA 3 is the "cross-shoulder" transition.

Pretty much this; it's possible that maybe the animations devs for whatever reason found themselves unable to implement "hand swap" or found it not worth the effort to animate, but it's also possible that maybe they're just taking cues from other tactical instructors besides Costa & Haley (from the days when they were at Magpul Dynamics).

[seamusgod 1]

crouched weaponless movement needs the hands to be lower and back, so it doesn't look like he's a kiddie poacher with his hands fiddling air in front of him.

also, some of the stance transitions seem a bit quick, it's like one of those stop motion videos where it's missing frames.

rotating character still has lack of leg movement. when you're in weapon ready and you move your aim just a little, maybe 20 degrees, your leg should move a bit more, not just drag on the ground lightly. problems is mitigated by freeaim, but freeaim is either abandon ware or very very early wip.

[chortles 263]

also, some of the stance transitions seem a bit quick, it's like one of those stop motion videos where it's missing frames.

I don't believe it's so much "a bit quick" as it is seemingly inconsistent; as I wondered earlier in the thread, why the heck is "pistol prone sitting" so seemingly slower than "long gun prone sitting"?

I don't mind either speed were that to be the choice for both, but it looks odd for such a sharp difference depending on what weapon you have equipped... and don't get me started on the fact that switching weapons from prone sitting causes you to revert to normal prone to complete/begin the switching weapons animation!

problems is mitigated by freeaim, but freeaim is either abandon ware or very very early wip.

The infantry aiming/turning feels like Arma 3 was the first in the series not designed around free-aim, though I suppose that by "abandon ware" you mean it feels like the devs only put it in because someone would inevitably demand it but implemented in a "going through the motions" way?

[Phal 1]

[Playing: Dev Build 55.104268]

I like:

+ Slower Combat run - This actually feels a lot better, and makes the speed increase in sprint more noticeable.

+ Faster Casual Tactical run - It feels faster and more useful now, before it was too slow. You may as well have never used it since Combat run was faster and you could quickly go into shooting mode.

+ Slower Crouched speeds - Moving while crouched was far too fast before, it's much more believable now. You are low down and not as easily balanced in as you are when stood up, you would expect to not be so agile!

I don't like:

- Pistol Animations - These look and feel incomplete. I preferred the old sprinting animation with the pistol held low, at least for when crouched. The crouched pistol animations look really awkward because the back is too straight and stretched out while moving normally - And then even worse while moving in Tactical Pace!

- Pistol Crouched speeds - These need the same love you gave to the rifle tweaks. Movement speed while crouched with a pistol is too fast, similar to how it was with a rifle in previous builds.

- Transitions/Connections between Combat/Casual states - Lowering and raising your weapon should be a seamless action to perform, you wouldn't think of it as a taxing thing for a soldier to have to do. Yet in-game it is currently very counter-intuitive. Your soldier will often get stuck between Tactical states, pause for a moment, stop responding to movement keys and sometimes even change stance when trying to do a ToggleRaiseWeapon action.

- Lack of visual feedback when fatigued - I'm not talking about adding a whole new set of animations for soldiers who are tired, but I use a toggle to sprint and when my soldier becomes fatigued he resumes the normal running animation. This is fine, except the sprint toggle is not switched off automatically making it confusing as it means I always have to press the sprint toggle again (with no visual feedback), simply to tell the game to stop trying to sprint.

- Idle variety animations play too quickly - I like that you're adding a bit of "life" to the soldiers when they enter a Casual/Relaxed state, but I think these animations play too quickly after the soldier is idle. The result being that you will see the same animation multiple times between slight movements (which halt the animation). It can be distracting and a little odd to watch.

Suggestions:

> Improve the Transitions/Connections between Combat/Casual states - To improve the flow of movement.

> Slow down Casual Rifle walk - Right now it's too fast and looks awkward.

> Allow player to switch between Casual Rifle walk animations - You have more than one in there, and the Tactical Pace key can switch between animations while running so why not walk too?

> Allow for a "Burst Sprint" when soldier is not fatigued - Unlike the 0.51 implementation of sprint, the current sprint is not a very good tool for getting out of danger. I think if the soldier is not fatigued he/she should benefit from a faster sprint for a short duration. This would help with going from cover to cover, and also avoiding incoming fire (getting TO cover).

> Turn off Sprint Toggle when fatigued - The toggle should automatically switch off if the soldier can no longer sprint.

I made a ticket a few weeks ago that I think is relevant here. It talks about grouping animations to improve the infantry experience.

Link: Feedback Ticket: 0006724

Also another to do with idle variety animations:

Link: Feedback Ticket: 0006845

[Sneakson 1]

The only things bugging me right now is that crouching is exactly the same speed or even faster than standing up and that all movement with weapon lowered makes you wobble your head around like a god damn Skrillex beat.

[afp 1]

The only things bugging me right now is that crouching is exactly the same speed or even faster than standing up and that all movement with weapon lowered makes you wobble your head around like a god damn Skrillex beat.

I think its fixed in the last built. The balance between various speeds seems to be pretty good.

[PN11A 2]

Has the stopping when you switch to pistol been fixed yet?

[dnk 13]

Hey, the sideways+front crouch while in walk mode makes you run.

[Sneakson 1]

Has the stopping when you switch to pistol been fixed yet?

Doesn't sound like a bug.

Hey, the sideways+front crouch while in walk mode makes you run.

Nope? >_> Explain?

[maddogx 13]

Has the stopping when you switch to pistol been fixed yet?

You mean this? Nope.

According to a statement made by one of the devs, it's not going to be easy to do either. Should be such a simple thing, in theory, but some ancient parts of the engine seem to be guarded by demons.

[PN11A 2]

You mean this? Nope.

According to a statement made by one of the devs, it's not going to be easy to do either. Should be such a simple thing, in theory, but some ancient parts of the engine seem to be guarded by demons.

Hope they work it out.

[chortles 263]

Hope they work it out.

I believe it was Smookie who said that trying to implement transition on the move would end up taking up a lot of animation resources.

[Phal 1]

[Playing: Dev Build 0.55.104462]

Feedback:

Below are the changes I found from quickly moving about as infantry in the new build. Not commenting on things that appear unchanged since last build.

RIFLE

(Upright) Running & Tactical Pace move speeds are good

(Crouch) Running speed too fast, feels like the same speed as Upright (should be noticeably slower in comparison)

(Crouch) Tactical Pace move speed is good

PISTOL

(Upright) Running & Tactical Pace move speeds are good (running animation plays too fast)

(Crouch) Running move speed too fast, feels like the same speed as Upright (should be noticeably slower in comparison)

(Crouch) Tactical Pace move speed seems ok (animation plays too fast)

OBSERVATIONS

> (Crouch Pistol) Soldier currently does some kind of "butt thrust" when going from stationary to moving while in tactical pace.

> (Crouch Pistol) Using a "Crouch / Stand" key whilst moving left in Tactical Pace will cause the soldier will go forward a few paces and stand up.

> Using "Crouch Toggle" you can't stand up after crouching with either a rifle or pistol in hand

> Transition into prone with pistol feels a bit fast

Edited April 24, 2013 by Phal

[rasdenfasden 12]

I think there should be left shoulder versions of the walking animations so that the tiniest movement doesn't suddenly move your gun to the right shoulder (and back) when you're using left step-lean..

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

i have been asking for this for a while. switching to the left shoulder also known as weak side transition is extremely common in urban combat. when leaning/peaking a left side corner, you ALWAYS switch to the left shoulder. to not do so, you will expose you whole upper body and head to enemy fire. a lot of lessons have been learned in the war in Iraq in this regard, so much so that the military has incorporated most of those lessons into their training regiment.

switching the rifle to the left or right should be linked to the lean keys. lean right and weapon should stay on the right shoulder. when you lean left, it should automatically switch the rifle to the left shoulder, and keep it there until you lean right again just to make things easier for the devs.

right now the only way to transition to the weak side is to do the left step out. this is why i have repeatedly asked to incorporate lean and step out together, where stepping out can be done with the use of lean + modifier key. combining that along with automatically swapping the weapon to either shoulder, will make things more fluid and players wont be falling over them selfs in urban combat.

this of course ultimately comes down to unlocking the stance change keys from WASD. AD for stepping out, and WS for cycling through the stances. nothing more frustrating then trying to adjust your stance hight to peak over an object, and your character runs out from behind cover... urgh.

i would much rather have this : lean left, lean right works normally but now has the weak side transition automatically tied to it. holding left Ctrl + lean left, lean right would be the step out keys, with weak side transition.

left Ctrl + W/S should be removed. the use of W and S is really not that good. instead it could be left Ctrl + scroll wheel up/down. when not holding down Ctrl, the scroll wheel would work normally for the action menu. also adding a "close action menu" option on the top of the action menu would be a HUGE help... i hate it when the damned action menu opens and i have to hit backspace to close it, where then it opens up the command menu.. so i have to hit back space twice every time the action menu opens.. very counter productive.

I think there should be left shoulder versions of the walking animations so that the tiniest movement doesn't suddenly move your gun to the right shoulder (and back) when you're using left step-lean..