Cold War Rearmed² - Public Beta

[OMAC 254]

2. Wake up call:

- i see only one way of passing this mission with satchels

You are not using all available resources. I gave up satchels a long time ago for that mission. There's a much easier and faster way to lay waste to the Shilkas and everything else moving in the area.

I finished the mission in 23 minutes last time:

[Variable 322]

That's because when someone hits your mine or you detonate a satchel, your position is immediately revealed, you can setup a satchel ambush in editor and youll see the triggerman on map when it detonates. AFAIK that's fixed in the beta.

Are you sure? This was supposedly fixed many patches ago.

[foffy 58]

You are not using all available resources. I gave up satchels a long time ago for that mission. There's a much easier and faster way to lay waste to the Shilkas and everything else moving in the area.

I finished the mission in 23 minutes last time:

http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/24923/71c936249227844.jpg

Wanna give a hint on that, friend? :P

[OMAC 254]

I would rather not spoil it for anybody, at least not yet. But...

The Russians in the bases are unaware of your approach, and are relaxing around the fire, hopefully drinking some vodka. Much of their equipment is therefore unattended.......

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

Are you sure? This was supposedly fixed many patches ago.

Tested using current beta (1.62.107882). Your exact position is not revealed, but you will be detected by opfor when you blow a satchel, even if you are concealed. Apparently they hear the noise and come looking in your general area, and will attempt to hunt you down (they are under full-alert danger mode with engage orders). But if you remain concealed, they will cease their search before too long, most of the time, as long as the enemy AI have a waypoint commanding them to do something elsewhere. But I have seen that they will sometimes mercilessly hunt you down and magically find you, especially if their active waypoint's combat mode is open fire/engage at will. But this is rather rare.

However, if the enemy AI do not have a waypoint assigned to them, they will hunt you down after the satchel explosion, and find you every time if you are within several hundred meters of explosion unless you are completely concealed in a building and cannot be seen from any position outside the building. The AI will go to great lengths to spot you, travelling hundred of meters. They will even move to positions from which they can spot you through building windows and doors, and then shoot through those openings. Then they will return to their original position and wait.

But one thing is for sure: the closer you are to the point where the satchel exploded, the more likely you will be found by enemy AI after the explosion.

Edited July 22, 2013 by OMAC

[kromka 40]

I use satchels in this mission because i use them in original campaign. They were efficient and quite logical. But now of course AI is smarter or rather over-smarted.

After this mission i made tests in editor with aproaching to the enemy when he is not faced to me (day) and when he patrols the area (night). Conclusions are suprising.

When you try to approach to the enemy from a back during day, there is no difference between a soldier or a general (or not noticable).

Only what is important is your stance and speed. Lower/slower you are, closer you can come up.

During night, no matter if you are sniper or ordinary grunt you can almost touch the enemy during his patrol when you are stay in place.

To be detected you have to run just in front of his face or shot.

[OMAC 254]

Two test examples of what I described above re: AI detection and pursuit after a satchel charge is blown:

In both tests, blufor sapper will plant satchel at empty T-72, then run to a hidden location, blow charge, and go prone. Opfor AI can move once the sapper has reached the hiding location. At all times the sapper is out of view of the opfor squad. The status of opfor detection of blufor is indicated by hints. In first test, opfor squad has a MOVE WP on runway south of control tower with combat mode set to open fire/engage at will. Blufor will be detected automatically once charge is blown even though he is hidden. Once blufor is no longer detected by opfor, a switch trigger enables GET IN waypoint for squad to board truck and leave area.

Note that even after the sapper has become undetected for the first time after the explosion, opfor squad will again detect him even though he is hidden from their view and has made no sound. Sometimes they will go after him and shoot him even with the GET IN waypoint active.

Edited July 21, 2013 by OMAC

[Variable 322]

Two test examples of what I described above re: AI detection and pursuit after a satchel charge is blown:

Oh boy, this is bad for any ambush or sabotage mission. I remember there was a fix for that in one of the patches, maybe a year ago. They either never really fixed this or it was broken in one of the later patches.

[OMAC 254]

The only thing that seems odd* to me is the re-detection of the hiding sapper after the first auto-detection (approx location only). Perhaps one of the other Russian AI spotted him lying prone behind the hangar, but I don't think so. It is plausible and desirable that the opfor would go looking for him in the general area of the explosion, and also good that the opfor would never stop looking for the sapper if they have no other waypoints commanding them. They do seem to have some sense of his location at all times (accurate at least to ~100-200m), again plausible. But if the sapper (or a player) kept moving after blowing the satchel, I doubt that they would be able to keep detecting him. That is worth another test.

Overall, I think the AI behavior demonstrated here is quite good, and results in cool hardcore situations. IRL, if a satchel is blown, you know the side that was hit would not stop going after the intruder until he is dead.

*Also odd is that they know he is a rifleman even though they haven't seen him.

Edit: I did another test in which the sapper goes to west end of runway before blowing charge, and then high-tails it to the west for a little more than 1 km before going prone in the woods. All of that is out of sight of the opfor squad, which can move from inside their hangar (which blocks line of sight to sapper) only after the sapper reaches the west end of the runway and he blows the charge. The opfor, with no WP assigned, knows about his distant location (essentially impossible), and follows the sapper. Thankfully, however, they stop about 900m from their starting position in the hangar, before they reached the sapper, and then turn around and return to hangar.

So there are definitely a few "omniscient-AI magic detections" of the unseen sapper by the opfor after the initial, explosion-related auto-detection. This magic can lead them towards the sapper's hidden location up to 900m away from explosion, and sometimes they will get him, but most of the time they will look around to no avail and return to hangar. Right after the explosion they have super-sight and can instantly spot a running man hundreds of meters away. But in terms of gameplay, this is no big deal, and can lead to some unexpected fun. But the bottom line is to get the hell out of Dodge, and fast, once you blow a satchel, or you can expect trouble.

Edited July 22, 2013 by OMAC

[kromka 40]

In "Wake up call" i saw more accurate behaviour after blow the satchel. It concerned tank.

I didn't realized about it until OMAC has written about 900 meter run of patrol.

I reported earlier that tank was activated after i gave a command "return to formation". I don't know how it is possible, but in series of dead-load it was fully reproducible.

But i once short after activation of tank i detonated satchel and destroy a shilka. Unexpectedly tank strated patrol area of detonation and didn't chased me. Even didn't commenced range attack which is usually done by him.

Edited July 22, 2013 by kromka

[Tonci87 163]

Hey Omac, could you please post that video in the Beta patch section?

[OMAC 254]

Hey Omac, could you please post that video in the Beta patch section?

Done.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159418-ARMA-2-OA-beta-build-108074-MP-compatible-build-post-1-62-release)&p=2447182&viewfull=1#post2447182

In the second test in the video, it sure seems like the AI know his exact location in the control tower, as they travel ~400 m to the north to get to higher elevation so that they can shoot him through the open door. :confused: :p

Edited July 23, 2013 by OMAC

[kromka 40]

OMAC, you've wrote earlier first autodetection is plausible. But, hmmm... why?

AI should know only where detonation is, not a saper. What if saper will set a timer to 10 min and will go far away? Does this mean he will be autodetected on the far end of island?

AI should of course search detonation area (but absolutely not reveal anybody who is not visible), but in this film satchel is between saper and russians and naturally they approaching to saper trough area of detonation what makes impression they search area of blow.

What if russian squad will be placed between saper and blow? Will they search after autodetection area of detonation or area of saper's presence?

Edited July 23, 2013 by kromka

[OMAC 254]

I thought it was plausible for opfor AI to search detonation area. I will test those other good ideas of yours. I was limited on Utes for places to hide the AI.

Edit: Another video here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159418-ARMA-2-OA-beta-build-108074-MP-compatible-build-post-1-62-release)&p=2448740&viewfull=1#post2448740

Edited July 25, 2013 by OMAC

[kromka 40]

Just like i tought. Good job OMAC.

[OMAC 254]

Please vote up if you agree that an issue exists:

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/72277

[kromka 40]

Do my soldiers promote during campaign Resistance? I remember in original campaign was something similar to promotion. After each battle, rank of some soldiers changed (I didn't understood rules of this promotion) and I assume abilities too.

Another question: how gathering of eqipment works? I know when i will give a command to my soldier "take something", it will pass with him to the next mission. But i noticed new eqipment which wasn't gathered by my men. How it works?

[dar 12]

Hey guys, I've got an issue with the Cold War Crisis campaign, at this part:

The mission works fine up to that point when suddenly everything becomes FUBAR. In the vid you can see how it should work I guess. For me it is like this: Squad runs into the forest. Sometimes the tanks spot me now and rip me into shreds. I saved shortly before and revert. Now I'm lucky, I get the cutscene with the binocs. The text showing Amstrongs words will NOT pop up as seen in the vid. The custscene is finished. My guys with LAWs shoot rockets in the woods. they hit trees, nothing else. about 30 russians begin to attack us, one BMP and two T72 are advancing on us with 100mph and ripping everything and everyone into shreds. Always. No tank gets ever destroyed. No Team Leader tells me I should cover him while he tries to get over the street. Nada. The squad gets wiped out. I loose.

I restartet the mission several times, playing everything up to that point again, reverting about 4times more to earlier savepoints, tried to do rambo style and destroy all the tanks myself collecting as many AT stuff I could find. Of course that never worked out.

So, any idea on that?

I'm using ACE2, ACEX, GL4, JSRS, tpwcas, several minor addons and the beta patch, of course.

[Tom_48_97 523]

We are sorry, but CWR² does not support additional mods, especially because the mod is still in Beta.

Many users reported bugs while using the ACE, that's the reason why I urge you to use CWR² only (eventually with the DLCs)

Edited August 3, 2013 by tom_48_97

[dar 12]

Alright, thank you for that information, tom.

That is unfortunate but if it is the only solution I will try it without ACE.

[Tom_48_97 523]

You're welcome :) I didn't said that ACE is involved, but it's a possibility. Make a try w/o and tell here if this fixes the bug or not.

[max power 21]

Rather, if you wish to make a bug report, please make sure you are using no other mods when you reproduce the bug.

[Wiki 1558]

Just need to read this:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?137388-Providing-feedback-to-mission-creators

[dar 12]

EDIT: post deleted. Got it, guys. No report like this here.

Alright then, to report it correctly:

Same issues without ACE, tpwcas, GL4, every other AI or Game Logic - addon I found.

Mods Left: Lingor, JSRS, Blastcore, stHud. Shouldn't affect any AI behaviour or mission flow.

Played on vanilla A2 CO 1.62 + latest Beta build.

Now the AT Gunners actually hit the tanks with every second shot but that wasn't enough to disable them or make them blow up. I had to disable them but it didn't destroy them (Don't know, maybe there is a trigger condition on that event?)

-No cutscene text (only in this specific cutscene)

-No plot after the cutscene (cover me, I try to make it over the street etc), just me running out of M72 Ammo and a mighty BMP. Note: the original team leader died in combat before that event.

-Had to end mission via command to move on

Furthermore, I noticed a similar tank behaviour in the next mission. After saving the civilians, OPFOR will send in reinforcements. The incoming BMP also charged into our position, the town center at full speed and ripped us to shreds. No chance. You really got to have a lucky day if the LAW gunner hits the BMP and you survive.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Dar

[Wiki 1558]

It's not about reporting here or not, it's about reporting correctly. ;-)

[max power 21]

If you want to make a bug report, please run only CWR2 to reproduce the problem. I do understand that that is not always desirable from the perspective of someone who is playing a game in his leisure time but it's what we need unfortunately. If you don't want to do that then hopefully someone else will repro the problem and report it.

---------- Post added at 18:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Mods Left: Lingor, JSRS, Blastcore, stHud. Shouldn't affect any AI behaviour or mission flow.

Unfortunatley, you don't know that unless you know the contents of all of those mods and the contents of CWR2. It is an awfully big assumption. I can also make a guess that those probably don't mess with base classes or something like that, but there has been the odd problem before. Also, I believe JSRS requires CBA, which has been broken by beta patches in the past. Unless we can replicate the conditions of your bug, we can't really begin trying to reproduce it, and playing with other mods is out of the scope of our project.