Movement still feels like Operation Flashpoint

[elaintahra 1]

To start with, I love all the titles for the possibilities they offer and the freedom. I bought the Alpha as soon as possible and excited. It looks COOL and I feel really good about it.

However I still feel the weight of Operation Flashpoint, some colleague also pointed that out (yeah but still moves like OFP)

- the movement is sluggish, can't explain it better but everyone recognises it; it's not fluid like other FPS games. It's like masturbating with a cheese grater: slightly amusing, but mostly painful.

- the houses etc are really somehow troublesome to go into and walk around like walking in sticky floor and getting stuck at corners, opening doors is pain, again can't explain it better but you must know it. Navigating houses is not amusing at all.

- entering vehicles with the damn icon is painful

- can't jump, just strangely lift your damn leg like you had shat your pants

(ok it's still Alpha, could change - but it won't)

To me, I've been waiting for them to boot the stupid movement engine from their system but they're still stuck with the same things that were annoying in OFP.

With that said, I still love these games, no other like them!

Edited March 14, 2013 by elaintahra
typos corrected

[Droikka 1]

That's is because the game would become FAR far too fast with more fluid movement. It needs to retain some sluggish to keep it even somewhat authentic. See what happened to Red Orchestra 2...

[SpecOp9 0]

I found the collision and interior movement to be a vast improvement

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's because there isn't any floating camera as in other FPS, but the camera is "attached" to the soldier model and moves accordingly to its animations, as in RL.

[MaxiM_PL 1]

Buildings are a breeze to get into - you can fit trough the door now ;)

Vehicles are no problem - just walk up from the side and press space.

Ladders are still kinda clunky - they are waaay better when you want to go up, but when you're trying to go down you still have to fiddle like stupid, just to get the icon. Also, when climbing the ladder (up or down), when you're on top of it you still climb way above the last rung, making you stick like a sore thumb. That needs to be dressed and needs two more transitioning animations (i.e to lower yourself on the ladder instead of hovering in the air).

As for jumping, I don't really mind not having it, but vaulting could be much, much better. Now don't crucify me for saying that, but Battlefield 3 got that part right. It could stay the way it is when you are moving at tactical pace, but when you're jogging/sprinting you should just get over obstacles smoothly, without loosing too much speed. Those guys are soldiers after all.

[zimms 22]

The control/movement is great imho. Of course you won't get the same "flow" as in Unreal Tournament.

[metalcraze 290]

I navigate buildings with ease. Of course if you will try to sidestrafe through a door with your nearly 1m long weapon ready to fire - you will fail. Hit C for combat pace or W+S for slow walk and the precision of movement indoors is great.

I don't want magical floating camera of generic FPS frag-poppers. This way it actually simulates a soldier who has gear on him.

To me, I've been waiting for them to boot the stupid movement engine from their system but they're still stuck with the same things that were annoying in OFP.

There are dozens of other shooters where you have what you want. Not everything has to play the same.

Edited March 14, 2013 by metalcraze

[Vibe 1]

Movement is like that ON PURPOSE. Make it less sluggish and we'll see people spamming sidestrafe keys to dodge bullets.

[-Coulum- 35]

I find the movement pretty smooth. I still occasionally get stuck on doors sometimes but this is usually because of poor fps. The only thing that is needed is a automatic weapon lower/raise system. It has been done via mod already, I hope BIS make it apart of the vanilla game.

Oh, and another thing that would be nice now is the ability to break out of animations with movement - Ie. if you are healing yourself you should be able to move at any time, but the heal action will be cancelled. same with the prone modifiers. If you are in high prone and move, you should automatically go back to the normal prone. You shouldn't be forced to drop to normal prone and then move - that's clunky.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I find the movement pretty smooth. I still occasionally get stuck on doors sometimes but this is usually because of poor fps. The only thing that is needed is a automatic weapon lower/raise system. It has been done via mod already, I hope BIS make it apart of the vanilla game.

Oh, and another thing that would be nice now is the ability to break out of animations with movement - Ie. if you are healing yourself you should be able to move at any time, but the heal action will be cancelled. same with the prone modifiers. If you are in high prone and move, you should automatically go back to the normal prone. You shouldn't be forced to drop to normal prone and then move - that's clunky.

I agree on both points.

[Raison 10]

I think Arma 3 made ​​a big step forward in this regard (to FPS "feeling"). The soldiers have become more like real people with weapons, not Pinocchio with Parkinson's disease.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Raison

[elaintahra 1]

The control/movement is great imho. Of course you won't get the same "flow" as in Unreal Tournament.

I honestly don't know how you can say it is great. I feel it is very very sluggish and annoying

"Vehicles are no problem - just walk up from the side and press space"

After playing these games from the beginning, I did not know this. Thanks for the tip :)

[Variable 322]

Pardon me but I believe your expectations are contaminated and shaped by unrealistic and childish FPS games that have unrealistic acceleration for the character. If it wasn't for these foolish games, this topic would not even been opened.

[zimms 22]

Maybe one thing to add: I use LShift to walk, as I did in Arma 2. Maybe some people are having trouble manoeuvring indoors, because they keep running all the time.

[Mutet 10]

Pardon me but I believe your expectations are contaminated and shaped by unrealistic and childish FPS games that have unrealistic acceleration for the character. If it wasn't for these foolish games, this topic would not even been opened.

I suspect that even if this was the first ever FPS ever made, people would take issue with finding it hard to enter doors, getting stuck on geometry and having to wait for unnecessary and uninterrupted animations to finish before control is regained.

Making movement natural and intuitive isn't something ArmA3 can ignore.

[down8 30]

I navigate buildings with ease. Of course if you will try to sidestrafe through a door with your nearly 1m long weapon ready to fire - you will fail. Hit C for combat pace or W+S for slow walk and the precision of movement indoors is great.

I don't want magical floating camera of generic FPS frag-poppers. This way it actually simulates a soldier who has gear on him.

.

This.

The movement is very improved. Reading these topics I ask myself if the OPs have actually played the game before complain, because for me the improvements made are very obvious.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello there

I've bought this up many times in the distant past but am usually flooded by reasons "why it's realistic" etc.

The movement in A3 is a vast improvement over A2/ofp etc but it still is severely lacking when compared to avatar control from any other game.

No, I don't want to be able to bunny hop like a madman or run at superfast speeds. I just want to be able to not have to fight with my avatar to make it do what I want. (Yes I'm very happy *you* find it fine dear reader) but I, and many like me do not.

Now, I suspect the improvements we have seen to the A3 control are in response to feedback to the past control system, and lovely they are too, but I think perhaps the reason we don't still feel control is an inherent issue with the RV engine and it's architecture and what we have now is "the best they can do" with the current engine/budget/timescales.

With a mega rig the control issues are somewhat covered up but with a mid range system they do become more evident.

I would love further improvement to it, I just don't see a vast change happening.

Rgds

LoK

[NeuroFunker 11]

To start with, I love all the titles for the possibilities they offer and the freedom. I bought the Alpha as soon as possible and excited. It looks COOL and I feel really good about it.

However I still feel the weight of Operation Flashpoint, some colleague also pointed that out (yeah but still moves like OFP)

- the movement is sluggish, can't explain it better but everyone recognises it; it's not fluid like other FPS games. It's like masturbating with a cheese grater: slightly amusing, but mostly painful.

- the houses etc are really somehow troublesome to go into and walk around like walking in sticky floor and getting stuck at corners, opening doors is pain, again can't explain it better but you must know it. Navigating houses is not amusing at all.

- entering vehicles with the damn icon is painful

- can't jump, just strangely lift your damn leg like you had shat your pants

(ok it's still Alpha, could change - but it won't)

To me, I've been waiting for them to boot the stupid movement engine from their system but they're still stuck with the same things that were annoying in OFP.

With that said, I still love these games, no other like them!

for some who forgot, this is not an FPS, it's an war simulator! And no, not agree what u said. Me and all of my buddies, all of them played arma 2 for good time, saying, arma 3 feels now closer to buttlefeeld but in a good way, playing as a soldier, feels more natural and enjoyable, compared to arma 2. More to say, arma 2 feels like crap now compared to A3. So it's a matter of taste, i think BIS found a perfect balance, between making it closer to FPS but still keeping that "war simulator" feeling. Jump? There is jump in dayz standalone already, but i don't think we need it at all. Movement in houses feels troublesome, well then i would change to pistole, since moving around in tight places with an assault rifle is not a good idea. Entering vehicles is wher i do agree, it could be simplefieled somehow.

[lNTRUDER 26]

As a veteran OFP/ArmA player I think the movement is almost perfect now. It's so easy to move around inside buildings (don't run ffs!) and I won't get stuck in doorways anymore when entering a room with potential hostiles.

Greatness! :)

[Variable 322]

I suspect that even if this was the first ever FPS ever made, people would take issue with finding it hard to enter doors, getting stuck on geometry and having to wait for unnecessary and uninterrupted animations to finish before control is regained.

Making movement natural and intuitive isn't something ArmA3 can ignore.

Your points are true, but I was refferring to this:

- the movement is sluggish, can't explain it better but everyone recognises it; it's not fluid like other FPS games. It's like masturbating with a cheese grater: slightly amusing, but mostly painful.

COD fans, like this fellow here, want arcasidh movement, that has unreal acceleration and reaction. They want that because their experience and minds were shaped by FPS that made everything too easy. Too many hours of respawning-shooting-moving-respawning-shooting-moving makes every game that has uses real (or close to real) movement values feel "sluggish".

So my claim is that the problem here is in these stupid games, and not in Arma 3, which is, as stated before, is a combat simulator game.

---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

One more thing, the claim made here in the opening post is a direct result of this:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

[ringoray 1]

@ OP : There must be something wrong with your game because as far as I know, from playing almost 100 hours already, I have not experienced anything you are claiming. As for the movement and entering and moving around houses, I think its a vast improvement on any other title so far.

[bad benson 1733]

i would like to see all the people that complain that they aren't able to move like a floating camera like in other games to move like a character in bf3, for example, in real life. would be funny to see them stumble over their own feet and fall all the time. just because it feels natural doesn't mean it's realistic. don't get me wrong i like games like bf3 for what they are but arma has a very different scope than those games. while overall accessibility is a good thing restrictions are what create realistic gameplay. and you can still move very fluently in arma. it's just harder to master because you aren't an air hockey disc being able to slide around just how you wish.

the door issue has nothing to do with the movement itself. what do you want? doors that have no collision detection? the "problem" here is the door opening mechanic. other games auto push doors open when you run against them and most fast-paced multiplayer FPS games remove doors all together to keep their holy grail of gameplay flow untouched (not so many doors on bf3's maps are there?).

while the door mechanic could be improved by things like animations to both sides depending on the direction the door is opened from or auto openeing, i think the fact that it takes time to open a door and that it opens only to one side are details that actually make it more realistic. again i want to see people run up to a normal door (not a saloon swinging door;)) and open it while running through it without losing speed.

I find the movement pretty smooth. I still occasionally get stuck on doors sometimes but this is usually because of poor fps. The only thing that is needed is a automatic weapon lower/raise system. It has been done via mod already, I hope BIS make it apart of the vanilla game.

Oh, and another thing that would be nice now is the ability to break out of animations with movement - Ie. if you are healing yourself you should be able to move at any time, but the heal action will be cancelled. same with the prone modifiers. If you are in high prone and move, you should automatically go back to the normal prone. You shouldn't be forced to drop to normal prone and then move - that's clunky.

i totally agree. suggestions like that are what can make the game better not the general crying for arma to be made into other games. there's a difference between flaws and design choices to create unique gameplay. why would you even want arma to be like other games? just play the other games if you don't like what this one offers. if you bought it just because you are tired of the other shooters just wait until their next part gets released. usually people come here crying because they get killed and now blame it on the game. when i host small games i have a constant influx of noobs that come in for a sec run to the enemy die and disconnect. it's funny to see how people can't wrap their head around the fact that there are games that have to be played differently than others.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Bad Benson

[Mutet 10]

COD fans, like this fellow here, want arcasidh movement, that has unreal acceleration and reaction....

I think that's an unfair characterisation, but that aside...

Movement should be easy in so far as you shouldn't have to think about it. In reality and in most examples in the FPS genre, movement is largely subconscious. It occupies very little of your thinking to move from one place to another or to change stance.

Every now and again in ArmA3 (and very often in ArmA2) when moving near objects, movement stops being subconscious and it takes more and more effort to move from one place to another in the way you want to. This isn't because anyone wants to make unrealistic movements (i.e. crouch jumps!), instead it occurs when attempting to make movements that are simple in reality such as sprinting through a doorway, opening a door whilst looking at the opening, moving to the corner of a window, hiding behind a tree, etc.

Far from being subconscious operations that don't need a second thought, in ArmA2, and to a lesser extent in ArmA3, they become challenges that can require several attempts.

When players are not used to it, it really breaks immersion and remains an annoyance even to those of us who are used to it.

ArmA3 has made large improvements, but there is still some way to go until it can match arcade shooters for ease of movement. With more realistic movement, ArmA faces a greater challenge when making moment control pleasant, but acheiving smooth, natural and intuitive movement system does not mean compromising on realism at all.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Mutet

[OrLoK 20]

@mutet

Well put.

That was the point i was badly trying to make.

Whenever I feel I have to manhandle my avatar into cover or round a small obstacle then the immersion factor, for me, goes out the window.

It *is* a flaw. And one i would like to see addressed.

I also really find uncomfortable how many opinions are dismissed as one is "obviously a COD kiddie". That really isn't a decent argument by any standards.

I want realism. I also want improved avatar control. It may not be achievable and if we have to stay with the current system I'll cope, but I dont think anyone would really complain if it were more fluid and natural. (Just like a3 is to a2)

Rgds

LoK

[Smurf 12]

Movement should be easy in so far as you shouldn't have to think about it.(...)

That is the best transcription of the "problem" I've seen.