Movement still feels like Operation Flashpoint

[Maslofski 10]

the only thing that is anoying to me is ive i cross a alley way i get hit want to open a door with the quick action button (space) the open door isnt the most important, instead i just start to heal myself in the line of fire or need too long to get the right one in the scroll menu :|

[simjedi 10]

Weapons lowering when close to walls will be nice to have but the collision detection needs to change also. I haven't tried the mod that does this but from the video it looks like the collision detection stays the same.

[bad benson 1733]

wasn't talking about the mod that got recently released. i was talking about a mod that does what i described. might be one of the shacktac addons. just google it

[OrLoK 20]

Hello there

There does seem to be some assumption that those wanting to improve the movement are somehow new to the genre or kids.

I'd like to point out that I'm neither.

In fact am such a fan I of BI's work I even (in wealthier times) invested in the mil-sim version of this game.

Not that being old, owning certain software or having a long time account here makes me or my ideas any better or worse than anyone else's, I just want to burst that "COD kids wanna change our game for the worse" bubble.

Arma 3 is shaping up to be a wonderful game and one assumes these forums are an area for constructive feedback discussion. Its great to discuss, but when ones ideas are just shot down and dismissed out of hand it leaves a sour taste.

As I've said before the movement system is fa better, but still could use a lot more improvement/changes and I just dont see how that damages the game. I've not heard any cogent arguments so far against improving/changing the existing system.

Rgds

LoK

[MaxiM_PL 1]

I do agree that you should be able to interrupt the healing animation. Maybe even lose the medkit in the process (in theory, it might have been laying on the ground in front of you) but at least able to take cover from the unexpected enemy fire.

[Warburg 1]

I am glad people are finally discussing this point. Movement has to be the biggest differential between the big name FPS nowadays.

Note - This is my first Arma game, and have been anticipating it after being thoroughly dissatisfied how BF3 has turned out in terms of movement

There is nothing I hate more in an FPS than obscenely quick movements (likes of which you see in CoD, and to a slightly lesser degree BF3). First off I would like to say that I am overjoyed of not having a jump function. Just looking at a game like BF3, it is clear that a jump function implemented horribly can and will be overused to an obnoxious level.

As far as determining how legitimate the movement is in a FPS, I think of it in terms of watching a firefight take place as a whole (from a 3rd party perspective). When I watch a firefight in ArmA 3, it just looks correct. When you watch a firefight in games where the movement levels are at an extreme degree, it stunts the legitimacy of the game. It will always be in the back of your mind, no matter how many kills you get or how badass you feel, what your player is doing is just absurd in terms of firefighting.

There isn't any swift movements in Arma 3 whether it be jumping, hyper accelerating, extreme strafe sprinting. In Arma 3, it all boils down to how you approach a situation, not how FAST you can approach the situation. The last game I have played that had a remotely legitimate feeling of controlling a soldier was BF Bad Company 2.

[PFC Magician 10]

could develop new movement associated with combat action, jump sideways, roll, simulate die, slide, melee attack, transition animations between one action and another...That would mark the difference between controlling a soldier, and a armored.

Edited March 14, 2013 by PFC Magician

[surfer 42]

Hello,

Imo movement has improved since Arma2, there's still room for further improvement and don't be afraid, it won't make this game CoD!

I think as long as some other aspects of the simulation aren't met it will mostly fall back to the "handicapped" movement. They are:

- stabilizing weapons

- effective covering of sight

- realistic ability of sight and aiming for the AI

- interrupting animations (not only the healing)

What I like so far:

+ weapon collisions indoor

+ speeds of walking and running, changing mags, throwing grenades

+ leaning and stance system (though sitting with the feet to the front doesn't fit into the fluid movement

Just got the idea of leaping to prone backwards, meaning the above sitting posture. Keys would be s_prone. You would use it if you accidentally ran into somebody or to fall back behind cover.

S.

[Maxzy 12]

I've not heard any cogent arguments so far against improving/changing the existing system.

Of cousre you didn't, because there's nothing to argue with - the only thing there is "I don't like it" or "It feels clunky" or "We need JUMP!!!11!!" And no constructive propositions of how to make it better. You're disagreeing with assumption that those who want "improvements" are new to the game or kids. But looking at what they saying I get exactly that feeling - guys just do not understand that there are many things, which they consider as "bugs", that are not bugs but FEATURES. Bad Benson actually already nailed it:

"do you really think arma movement is like that because BI doesn't know how to make a simple shooter? most of it is on purpose. it's way easier to make a floating camera shooter."

Edited March 15, 2013 by MAXZY

[Montanaro 0]

"Movement still feels like Operation Flashpoint"

Excellent, then BIS is doing something right then.

Or you could prefer that BIS go down the path of WW2OL, PlanetSide2, Red Orchestra 2 and largely scrap the winning formula in the name of "progress".

[johncage 30]

they chose the "speed everything up" route instead of the "more sophisticated animation blending" route. the results leave a lot to be desired. hopefully they see the virtue in having animations that don't require you to park your ass firmly in stand still just to pull out a pistol for example. it's an alpha. there's still time.

[bad benson 1733]

yea that's exactly what i hope for too. all that the system is missing is proper blending. movement itself is fine (atleast for me) but the way you are forced inside a little sequence for certain things is annoying. and i would like to see an vaulting feature that considers the object in front of you. i was working on an experimental addon like this for arma 2. all you need is a few "lineintersects" kind of checks and like 3 versions of the animation for 3 different heights.

it's kind of sad that all this opinion clashing drowns out the small detailed feedback suggestions that could really help this special system to reach full its potential. but people just ask for what other games have. i would agree that the OP has a point if he was criticizing a certain bug or flaw but instead people tend to overdramatise and make totally generalized overstatements. but then again this is just the forums not the place where constructive stuff belongs (feedback tracker)...

[chortles 263]

Unfortunately it seems to me that the same "noise" on the forums spills over into the feedback tracker too... :(

Smookie did mention something about the possibility of allowing pistol transition to happen at walking speed, but unfortunately I believe he also said something about that taking up so many resources somehow...

[Gorbachev 1]

I'm assuming by resources he means man power?

To be on topic, this feeling of actually controlling the player character rather than a floating camera with a gun rendered in front if it is what makes the series special..

[Mac 1]

Actually, I find the movement to be much smoother and vastly improved over the past titles in the series. It just seems too quick. I want to feel the weight of the gear, and the general exhaustion of being in combat. Things are really smooth they just need to be slowed down a little.

[chortles 263]

I'm assuming by resources he means man power?

To be on topic, this feeling of actually controlling the player character rather than a floating camera with a gun rendered in front if it is what makes the series special..

Presumably that already takes up so much (memory?) that he couldn't find room to stick "transitioning on the move" in there at all without sacrificing something else, I imagine.

[kavoven 4]

To start with, I love all the titles for the possibilities they offer and the freedom. I bought the Alpha as soon as possible and excited. It looks COOL and I feel really good about it.

However I still feel the weight of Operation Flashpoint, some colleague also pointed that out (yeah but still moves like OFP)

- the movement is sluggish, can't explain it better but everyone recognises it; it's not fluid like other FPS games. It's like masturbating with a cheese grater: slightly amusing, but mostly painful.

- the houses etc are really somehow troublesome to go into and walk around like walking in sticky floor and getting stuck at corners, opening doors is pain, again can't explain it better but you must know it. Navigating houses is not amusing at all.

- entering vehicles with the damn icon is painful

- can't jump, just strangely lift your damn leg like you had shat your pants

(ok it's still Alpha, could change - but it won't)

To me, I've been waiting for them to boot the stupid movement engine from their system but they're still stuck with the same things that were annoying in OFP.

With that said, I still love these games, no other like them!

I absolutly can't agree. I think the movement is pretty nice and smooth and no comparision to OFP!

[chortles 263]

The lack of jump is intentional, although at this point I would prefer some sort of vault or 'fast scale' -- or better yet, it being semi-context sensitive so that we don't end up stuck with an accidental "step over" out in the open!

[nodunit 397]

Presumably that already takes up so much (memory?) that he couldn't find room to stick "transitioning on the move" in there at all without sacrificing something else, I imagine.

More likely the time it takes to record the animation, get the best take, then import than, reconfigure and tweak the hell out of it to get it to function in game then seamlessly blend it together and so on for not just two but five or so phases. Surely it can't be a case of cycles per animation, considering the variety in the idle and walk animations, if cpu or memory were the culprit then we'd see a distortion in performance when these two are active...heheeh..idle burning more fuel...

Nice as mocap is, it still isn't quite as agreeing with games as it is movies.

Edited March 15, 2013 by NodUnit

[dmarkwick 261]

More likely the time it takes to record the animation, get the best take, then import than, reconfigure and tweak the hell out of it to get it to function in game then seamlessly blend it together and so on for not just two but five or so phases. Surely it can't be a case of cycles per animation, considering the variety in the idle and walk animations, if cpu or memory were the culprit then we'd see a distortion in performance when these two are active...heheeh..idle burning more fuel...

Nice as mocap is, it still isn't quite as agreeing with games as it is movies.

It'll be more like getting the reloads to be blendable with all the walking & running animations, all the directions etc. Top half switching weapons, lower half running, walking, crouching, strafing, backwards etc. It's been done for the reloads I think... but I haven't tried that out yet so I don't know how extensive that ability is. Or how difficult it was to achieve :)

[Jex 1]

I navigate buildings with ease. Of course if you will try to sidestrafe through a door with your nearly 1m long weapon ready to fire - you will fail.

My only complaint here is that the weapon should be lowered whenever you butt up against a wall. Vietcong did this and it makes sense and doesn't leave you frustrated - it's ridiculous to think that anyone would get their weapon stuck on something and not lower or maneuver it to get by the obstacle. Other than this so far the movement is fine, but this issue needs to be addressed for realism and immersion.

Example, arma 2, dayz, walk up a narrow staircase - wtf I can't turn around because of my rifle??? total immersion breaker and completely unrealistic so I hope they can add in an auto feature (like they now have the indicator where the x-hairs show if ur barrel is pointing into something, maybe that could be used to lift your weapon to your chest.

[ziiip 1]

Turn mouse smoothing to 0 if you havent already. I have no idea why it isn't 0 by default but it made my ArmA experience pretty awful for years.

[Jex 1]

i would like to see all the people that complain that they aren't able to move like a floating camera like in other games to move like a character in bf3, for example, in real life. would be funny to see them stumble over their own feet and fall all the time. just because it feels natural doesn't mean it's realistic. don't get me wrong i like games like bf3 for what they are but arma has a very different scope than those games. while overall accessibility is a good thing restrictions are what create realistic gameplay. and you can still move very fluently in arma. it's just harder to master because you aren't an air hockey disc being able to slide around just how you wish.

Your going down the right tracks but even arma isn't realistic just because it's more clunky and it will never be reached in a video game because different parts of your body move differently. Your arms for instance move faster than most other body parts. You cannot run forward and suddenly change your direction instantly to run 90 degrees left or right. I'd like them to slow your turn rate depending on how fast you are running and stop with this nonsense where you can turn ur body around and around as fast as you like.

[OrLoK 20]

Of cousre you didn't, because there's nothing to argue with - the only thing there is "I don't like it" or "It feels clunky" or "We need JUMP!!!11!!" And no constructive propositions of how to make it better. You're disagreeing with assumption that those who want "improvements" are new to the game or kids. But looking at what they saying I get exactly that feeling - guys just do not understand that there are many things, which they consider as "bugs", that are not bugs but FEATURES. Bad Benson actually already nailed it:

"do you really think arma movement is like that because BI doesn't know how to make a simple shooter? most of it is on purpose. it's way easier to make a floating camera shooter."

Hello there

I understand your point and agree that many points pro or con the argument are not well put. I include my ramblings among them.

But this same issue has been floating around the forums for years and It's surprising how defenders of the old Arma movement system and said "it's fine/realistic" dont change it to COD" are now saying the same thing of the improved system.

Im not aiming this at you or directly at anyone in particular.

But to think the current (massively improved) system is *fantastic* is (IMHO) incorrect. Its a great leap forwards and I can *cope* with it. But it could theoretically be vastly improved.

Whether the resources are there to do so is another thing.

Rgds

LoK

[Jex 1]

[/color]One more thing, the claim made here in the opening post is a direct result of this:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

Interesting article. I actually Like RO except my biggest issue is seeing people, the movement and all the other things are fine. So COD basically makes you a bad shitty gamer which is why COD players can't get on with RO or Arma.