6.5 mm and recoil management in game

[Nikoteen 24]

One of the most obvious change in Arma 3 is the new ammo standard, 6.5 mm (Grendel?) and the new family of rifles chambered for it.

I noticed I had a hard time managing the recoil compared to Arma 2.

To my opinion, it kicks a little like the 7.62 mm in Arma 2. As I never fired such 6.5 mm rounds, I wonder if its close to reality...

Is someone can give its opinion about the realism of recoil modeling in game please ?

When proned, you have also a new behavior in increased vertical recoil after 3-4 rounds fired, with every weapon. Especially LMG with bipod, I had a hard time to hit a mobile target around 300 to 400m even with short bursts !

I would like to hear your opinions and if the recoil model needs tweaking. Personally, I do believe.

[Spaceman0372 19]

Agreed. A lot of games don't quite understand recoil properly. With a decent firing stance, the recoil will push the weapon almost straight back into your shoulder, with very little muzzle climb. I'd love to see this brought into the game so it is possible to be able fire more than 1 round every 2 seconds at an enemy 20 yards away.

[Hartmann 10]

Recoil does seem a tad overdone yes, coupled with the complete inability to properly stabilize weapons with bipods or otherwise it's basically single shots or go home.

[SandboxPlaya 10]

Recoil overdone? Then why do realism modes like ACE always add more of it?

Edited March 7, 2013 by SandboxPlaya

[Nikoteen 24]

Recoil overdone? Then why do realism mode like ACE always add more of it?

In that case, I anticipate that ACE will tone down the recoil. Just my opinion.

[SandboxPlaya 10]

In that case, I anticipate that ACE will tone down the recoil. Just my opinion.

But it's quite controlable in ARMA 3, you just need to put some effort into manhandling it. Don't forget that it appears magnified when you zoom in. Full-auto isn't meant to be accurate over long distances.

[Nikoteen 24]

But it's quite controlable in ARMA 3, you just need to put some effort into manhandling it. Don't forget that it appears magnified when you zoom in. Full-auto isn't meant to be accurate over long distances.

Yes, I play Arma games since 2001 so I have an accurate idea how to manage rifle in game... that's because I know better that I want better.

[ziriix 1]

Agreed. A lot of games don't quite understand recoil properly. With a decent firing stance, the recoil will push the weapon almost straight back into your shoulder, with very little muzzle climb. I'd love to see this brought into the game so it is possible to be able fire more than 1 round every 2 seconds at an enemy 20 yards away.

I have been working in the military for some time now and the recoil is not overdone on the normal weapons. You have to keep in mind that IRL you very rarely fire while standing up or kneeling, You ALWAYS lie down if you are going to shoot longer then like 50 meters and are planing on staying in that spot for more then 15 seconds.

Something that i think is overkill in vertical recoil is the MG with bipod. IRL it almost docent climb at all instead the bullets are being spread out left, right, up and down evenly.

And btw if you cant hit a dude standing 20 yards away with more 1 round every 2 second you are doing something really wrong.....

I just tried full auto on my friend and some trees on 20-50 meters and i almost hit every bullet^^

[trent 14]

Also noticed the increased recoil. Considering that right now the Ultimax has the recoil of a .22 and fires 5.56 you'd think there'd be more mitigating systems in the future.

Noticed the underwater gun is 5.56 despite being copied from a 7.62mm gun.

[x3kj 1247]

Noticed the underwater gun is 5.56 despite being copied from a 7.62mm gun.

Blame lobbyism. Or Greenpeace intervened because 7.62 disturbs the seacritters alot more =P

[AdamWayne 1]

I guess you could think of 6.5 as the middle ground between 5.56 and 7.62, so it's reasonable that the recoil would be higher than the 5.56 as it's a stronger round. That, and the recoil of the 5.56 in previous games was fairly low in comparison to real life.

[metalcraze 290]

I find 6.5 recoil to be OK. BLUFOR's 7.62 MX variant(?) definitely kicks back more and no worse than MK17 did in OA.

[cross888 10]

Agreed. A lot of games don't quite understand recoil properly. With a decent firing stance, the recoil will push the weapon almost straight back into your shoulder, with very little muzzle climb. I'd love to see this brought into the game so it is possible to be able fire more than 1 round every 2 seconds at an enemy 20 yards away.

Hit the nail on the head there bro.

marksmanship principles were not applied by the firers

even if there is muzzle climb when you fire any rifle your site picture should always re-aline to your point of aim if it doesn't you're not holding the weapon firmly enough.

I've fired 5.45, 5.56, 7.62 and even .338 lapua and no matter how big the kick if you apply your marksman ship principles the weapon should always realign to your point of aim.

[ziriix 1]

Deleted

[cross888 10]

You are correct with that the weapon goes back to the same point if your shooting stance is stable. BUT in fast shooting you fire again before the gun has time to reach that point after each shot. I tried this out in the game right now and as it stands atm your aim is constantly getting moved up if you don't compensate with the mouse. If it was not how hard would it then be to kill someone with redpoint at 800m? You would just have to aim in once and click until he is dead =/

Roger that but then you add Geothermic pressure, wind and bullet drop.

Not as easy as it sounds when you add those factors in to it and as far as I'm aware arma 3 has a wind system ;)

Auto fire's always going to be a problem unless your in the prone with a real LMG or GPMG as there weighted and have bipods.

But that's the nature of auto fire.

Shouldn't really be using auto unless "Your repelling a massive attack" (over run drills).

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

What bothers me most is that the people I'm shooting at don't have the same problems. The recoil would be fine if the AI suffered from it, they seem to be able to put a full auto burst through a dinner plate at 300m! There is an imbalance in capabilities there and also with opfor v blufor weapons. I have a 1920x1080 monitor and the aiming dot is so small, 4 pixels at most it takes a huge effort to aim at anything. There is so much scope sway I sometimes feel my AI is drunk. It's also not enjoyable having to sit crouched with my eyeball 20cm from the screen trying to get the aiming dot stable so I can actually fire at something. The RMB "hold breath effect" needs improvement, still too much scope movement with that too.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[Crierd 24]

The recoil to me just seems off. It's not as smooth, and more violent than it should be. Not like a "well it's recoil so it has to be violent" type of violent, I mean like the animations or the polish aren't quite finished. It's kinda hard to explain.

In any case, I agree that the 6.5 has simply too much recoil. Not by much, but it could be tweaked. As mentioned before, proper techniques employed for recoil management make a HUGE difference.

[WSFMigo 10]

I think its fine, I've been able to fire one shot across a good distance accurately and when it comes to Close combat i use full auto perfectly fine.

[maturin 12]

Have all you people complaining about recoil played ArmA 2? It looks like those 6.5mm rifles have next to no muzzle climb in all the videos I see.

[Dangerdog 0]

It might be okay if you could mount your gun to objects in the map like stub walls and window sills, having to go prone just to hit anything is a little off putting. Perhaps it needs to be tied to the difficulty level so as to satisfy the "big recoil" fans.

[Nikoteen 24]

Little addition in the discussion :

A Youtube video of someone firing the game standard ammo on range with the -proper- firing stance :

As you can see, no muzzle climb and 6.5 mm are said to be only a little more pushy than 5.56 mm

[NevilleBartos 10]

I find bursting a few shots on full auto is more manageable than consecutive single fire, strangely.

[Rory 1]

As a frequent shooter of many different rifles, including ones that fire intermediate cartridges, I can from personal experience say that the recoil in games is quite excessive. I think most people that pick up something like an AKM or one of its variants are surprised at how low the recoil's effects on a sight picture is. It is very manageable. 6.5 is even more so, having been designed to somewhat combine the advantages of the 5.56 NATO and larger calibers. The current recoil within the game is more reminiscent of a battle rifle cartridge, such as a 7.62x51 or even a .30-06.

[TG Marksman X 10]

You guys might want to take into consideration that the 6.5 in game is a CASELESS round. It doesn't use gunpowder, it's closer to a projectile wrapped in plastic explosive.

[Tes 1]

So, that means bigger bang, right ?

Personally i dont mind the recoil as long as it will make AI harder to hit us too. Now they're damned robots. Dumb but with Xrays instead of eyes and can shot off fly's wings on 700 m