Arma 3 Action Menu

[griffinz 10]

Griff here (hi Dwarden),

I just heard in an interview at GamesCon that the solution for the current mouse-wheel action menu is under discussion.

I propose that you trial the Battlefield 2 "rose" menu.

[MG]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/22257/2135772-8042686430922_commo_rose.png[/img]>100kb

Obviously the Arma 3 menu options will be deeper than 1-click destination, but the over-all implementation in BF2 of this menu system worked well to quickly represent a 1-tier action.

A multiple-tier commo rose menu should be looked at and discussed....IMO.

Cheers,

Griff

Edited August 17, 2012 by Placebo

[Smurf 12]

People arround here (strangely) think that a commo rose isn't the best option. Maybe too (easy) mainstream.... :j:

Anyway my 2 cents: something like SWAT 4 one (or a better implementation of A2 dynamic one):

*Solo (not any unit selected), when you look at an object the most common action associated with that object appears. Simple keypress => perform action. Hold key => Menu appears showing avaible options.

Ex: Looking to a driver's door of a car => Get in as Driver.

The car beign empty (or with driver only), lookin to any other door => Get in as Gunner. Hold key => Get in as Gunner | Ride in Back | Whatever

*When a unit is selected you give orders.As default it should be "Move to.." and beign context\object aware more options appear.

Ex: Pic 1, Pic 2.

Got to put more thinking on that, but it seems like a good concept for me.

[Phantom Six 25]

I remember sunken dragon got a rose style menu. Rose style menus are easier to navigate and micromanage AIs than the current ARMA 2 menu. I find it way too slow during hot heated combat and firefights to use the current ARMA's menu. The SWAT 4 menus I also like a lot as well, I probably prefer the SWAT 4 one.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Using action menu when boarding BMP3 made me hate Scroll menu,any other solution would be better :D

[cotton 1]

something similar to bf would be good; in sympathy to qazdar, if the command menu when it pops up for a vehicle (using the bf rose as an example) the center action or default action would be to get in... furthermore for anything, have a default action or the most likely used action quick to access.

[griffinz 10]

Can you post examples of the Swat 4 menu? I am unfamiliar with their system. (not just for me, but for everyone to make a comparison)

[nodunit 397]

Something like that could work for commands yes, but not the action menu. It is completely different from commands and extends modability greatly. Changing a screen for example, you can bind it to a key or use the action menu pending choice, and the action menu acts as a stack with limitless which can be good for later organizing, whereas a commos rose could become just as much of a clusterfuck.

[emmanuel13 1]

i prefer more the project reality one it looks more decent and also has icons next to each category:):)

[Phantom Six 25]

Can you post examples of the Swat 4 menu? I am unfamiliar with their system. (not just for me, but for everyone to make a comparison)

Found random image on the web but it looks like this.

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/375601-swat-4-the-stetchkov-syndicate-windows-screenshot-in-game.jpg

[Placebo 28]

Please watch your filesizes when posting.

[Redphoenix 1539]

I also would prefer the SWAT4 menu.

That was working perfectly fine and is way better then any other actual Menu I played with (Besides RavenShield: Rainbow 6)

[griffinz 10]

How do you select an option in SWAT 4? Is that scroll-wheel as well? Or does it turn on mouse pointer when open?

[Redphoenix 1539]

I think yes, but it felt somehow more intuitional / intuitve.

[kremator 1064]

A list is not going to be as useful as a commo rose. Sorry to burst your bubble list-boi's

[Redphoenix 1539]

But I never got how the menu in BF3 worked, and I played around 100hrs.....

Call me dumb, but that's something I never really gotten into.

[dmarkwick 261]

I like the rose idea. A dynamic rose GUI would be a godsend, everyone is familiar with both 12-point rose and 8-point rose, and both could easily be used for improved ingame control. It doesn't even need to replace the existing system - it can easily augment it via a hotkey, so everyone is catered for.

12-point rose is like a clock, which everyone is familiar with, plus it replicates the F1-F12 keys. It can be used starting at the 12-o'clock position and populated as needed around the clock, hiding those that are not needed. Each point can switch to a sub-rose.

8-point rose is like a compass, and is easily navigable for situations where 12-point is unnecessary. Plus, direction-based commands will be easy.

I can't see a downside, and it seems an easy implement (relatively). Only single problem I foresee is which key to hold down to bring it up :)

[h - 169]

I think a rose-menu type of thing would only work as action menu (getting in vehicles etc), although dunno how that kind of menu would handle custom actions added with userAction class or via addAction.. You might soon go from rose to this..

For commanding troops the rose type of thing would only work if you can maneuvre yourself while it's open.

I really don't see how a rose menu would help with the massive amounts of commands the game has, I use the numeric "shortcuts" and after playing a while it comes so naturally you don't even have to see what buttons you press.

12-point rose is like a clock, which everyone is familiar with, plus it replicates the F1-F12 keys. It can be used starting at the 12-o'clock position and populated as needed around the clock, hiding those that are not needed. Each point can switch to a sub-rose.

I fail too see how this would be less cumbersome than the current system.. :confused:

[dmarkwick 261]

I think a rose-menu type of thing would only work as action menu (getting in vehicles etc), although dunno how that kind of menu would handle custom actions added with userAction class or via addAction.. You might soon go from rose to this..

No, not if each sub-rose replaced the old upper rose... essentially exactly the same as how the current keyboard menu system works.

For commanding troops the rose type of thing would only work if you can maneuvre yourself while it's open.

As I mentioned, the rose GUI wouldn't need to replace the current system... so you could still do that if you needed to.

I really don't see how a rose menu would help with the massive amounts of commands the game has, I use the numeric "shortcuts" and after playing a while it comes so naturally you don't even have to see what buttons you press.

But you just said you wanted to move AND command.. how can you do this without letting go of the mouse.. anyway. Rose & subrose seems perfectly intuitive to me, just augment the menu/submenu with rose/subrose. With one you use the keyboard, with the other you use the mouse. With one you get to command while moving using piano-player-like contortions, with the other I can run/move using keyboard and give orders using mouse while the hotkey is down.

Point is, BOTH SYSTEMS CAN BE USED :)

I fail too see how this would be less cumbersome than the current system.. :confused:

Mouse action instead of keyboard action. Options etc :)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The menu system is fine, what needs to be done is to refine it to suit tasks which you accomplish often, such as: entering a vehicle from the driver's/passenger's seat, using ladders, opening doors and so forth - all this needs to be done with a single keypress. If you're standing beside a vehicle and pointing your crosshair at the driver's door, then the system needs to recognise the context of the item with which you want to interact.

And the current system does act in this way - ever tried to single-click open the rusty gates on any compound? Yeah, quite tricky, but it can be done, if you get your crosshair into the required deadzone to pop-up the action. Simple solution: refine the iconography, increase the crosshair deadzone for items to be activated.

P.S. For in-vehicle interaction (flaps, gear up/down, switch to gunner/commander's seat) some sort of "rose menu" as has been mentioned before would be ideal. Such menu could be activated by depressing the middle mouse button and using the mouse cursor to highlight an action, then releasing the MMB - all done with a single keypress.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[metalcraze 290]

Radial menu will be bad. Imagine if you are on the move and this thing totally covers your screen preventing you from seeing anything. And a big no for commanding troops - you won't even be able to move soldier into any position because it will completely prevent you from seeing enemies and cover. It may work in SWAT4 or BF2 but they are not games where pixels are trying to kill you.

Cluttered screen is much worse than a scrolling command list, that is however pretty compact.

Then again I'm perfectly okay with scroll menu. As long as BIS keeps it as an option - they can do spiral, sinusoid, whatever menu

Edited August 17, 2012 by metalcraze

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Radial menu will be bad. Imagine if you are on the move and this thing totally covers your screen preventing you from seeing anything. Cluttered screen is much worse than a command list, that is however pretty compact.

Make it transparent, displace it off the centre of the screen, use a hexagonal shape for the wheel, use smaller fonts - lots of options to refine it and make it competitive. If done right the whole thing shouldn't be larger than your compass.

---------- Post added at 10:42 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

P.S. What I'm talking about here is the action menu (right edge of the screen), it can successfully be ported to a radial style design.

I do agree on the command list with 1-9 number keys being more efficient. The rose menu should be test run for action first.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Hmm... proper working voice command and gestures would be another two options. Just something that doesn't clutter the screen and vision of player and feels more natural / "authentic". It would be great to have a customizable HUD setup in graphic options menu so everyone can choose what he wants and where he wants it on his screen. Of course there must have been some thoughts about SP+MP setup/difficulty. For example: are extra HUD elements allowed or should the player look on his cockpit controls/instruments? As for commanding lots of units something like "ingame commanding devices" (functional objects) with screen + interface would be great so the player can sit/stand behind them and give orders like its done in real (or close to it).

[metalcraze 290]

@Iroquis Pliskin: I agree - and as long as they keep scroll menu - it's fine.

However I would rather see scroll menu improved.

Like - it seems that your pointer is tied to the barrel of your gun and is the size of a pixel. Which means that for example when after doing a sprint to the ladder the weapon shakes and so scroll menu constantly changes. So instead of getting on that ladder you take our your pistol and it can be really annoying at times.

What should be done is that there should be selection radius in the dead center of the screen that is independent of your aim. Whatever interaction with an object is possible in that radius will be in the action menu.

At the same time keep weapon-aim-pointing for AI actions (like movement, healing, attacking etc - like it is now) - and there will be no problems.

[dmarkwick 261]

The menu system is fine, what needs to be done is to refine it to suit tasks which you accomplish often, such as: entering a vehicle from the driver's/passenger's seat, using ladders, opening doors and so forth - all this needs to be done with a single keypress. If you're standing beside a vehicle and pointing your crosshair at the driver's door, then the system needs to recognise the context of the item with which you want to interact.

And the current system does act in this way - ever tried to single-click open the rusty gates on any compound? Yeah, quite tricky, but it can be done, if you get your crosshair into the required deadzone to pop-up the action. Simple solution: refine the iconography, increase the crosshair deadzone for items to be activated.

Alongside this I should say: let's remove the contextual action system. I really don't like chasing actions up & down the list depending on what happens to wander across my field of view :)

---------- Post added at 11:24 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

Radial menu will be bad. Imagine if you are on the move and this thing totally covers your screen preventing you from seeing anything. And a big no for commanding troops - you won't even be able to move soldier into any position because it will completely prevent you from seeing enemies and cover. It may work in SWAT4 or BF2 but they are not games where pixels are trying to kill you.

I don't see how it can be bad when it's an augmentation of the current system, so that you DON'T have to use it when it's not appropriate.

[kremator 1064]

Alongside this I should say: let's remove the contextual action system. I really don't like chasing actions up & down the list depending on what happens to wander across my field of view :)

Totally agree !