Improved tone mapping for 1.61 proposal

[KeyCat 131]

I've made a little comparison page for those wanting to see the difference between the patches in a little more detail :cool:

http://www.nomandown.com/arma2/tm_comparison/index.html

Thank you very much for this comparsion page Hawk!

In this case I prefer the old 1.60 picture better since I already have problems with HDR making the screen to dark in some areas even at day time (woods on Chernarus for example) on my monitor.

/KC

[das attorney 858]

I guess you could script a mission (or hardcode the game) to use one of them when the sun is up and one when it sets. It doesn't have to be a 'one size suits all' solution. Although that would be preferable.

[max power 21]

Max Power is talking nonsense here. In MP you cannot use individual settings.

And it is imperative to test the new betas and give feedback to help BI make the change meaningful.

Oh? So this is all about Multiplayer, is it? Oh, forgive me. I thought people who play single player were also participating in this thread.

[tpw 2315]

I guess you could script a mission (or hardcode the game) to use one of them when the sun is up and one when it sets.

That's exactly what I do, works nicely!

Unless a dev would care to chime in to set the record straight, I'm pretty sure that "Reinhard" is now the default. I wrote a tiny little script that changes the tonemapping to "Reinhard". If I start a mission running beta 93666 or greater, then activate the script, I see no discernable difference.

[OMAC 254]

You are correct, tpw. Reinhard looks like the default in beta 93701:

Arma:

Default:

Reinhard:

If the above are loaded into different browser tabs, they can be quickly compared by switching tabs (use Firefox with AdBlock Plus to eliminate ads!) No difference between default and Reinhard.

Edited June 16, 2012 by OMAC

[fraczek 4]

I've made a little comparison page for those wanting to see the difference between the patches in a little more detail :cool:

http://www.nomandown.com/arma2/tm_comparison/index.html

Nice work. From loading the screenshots into image editor, the Beta one's histogram is clipped in the shadows, while the older one has no clipping whatsoever. BTW, what was your HDR setting set at, when you took these?

[Tonci87 163]

I've made a little comparison page for those wanting to see the difference between the patches in a little more detail :cool:

http://www.nomandown.com/arma2/tm_comparison/index.html

Original (before resize) images:

• Current
  
• Beta
  

Judging by this: It looks awesome in Daytime, but nighttime needs to be improved a little bit.

[tremanarch 6]

do you really see a diffrence that is that much ? i dont. i have the feeling the new patch is even a bit more light.

check it out.

p.s. and this on from other mate who posted here:

http://www.nomandown.com/arma2/tm_comparison/index.html

no, i made these screens to show that there is really not so much difference, at least not sth. I would notice while playing.. and not analyzing via tools or stuff...

but nevertheless the last night was clearly a bit darker as the nights before.. so something might have changed.. I really dont get all this.. just wanted to make some comparison screens.. without drawing conclusions...

But I hope that at least it is equal for all players..

Edited June 16, 2012 by tremanarch

[zimms 22]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I recently saw this screenshot and I simply was astonished. The guy who made it used some color filter - nothing more.

http://i.imgur.com/K0EuS.jpg

As we know there already are some filters in ArmA and I certainly would love one that looked something like this.

[scrahn 1]

While the above poster linked a screenshot with an overly blue colorfilter, the fact of the matter is that there is very little blue going on in the shaded areas during daytime in Arma2. Shadows aren't black in reality, ya know -- only in photos does this happen as cameras are bad at picking up contrast levels.

Also as it stands now the game is woefully under-saturated. Anything the sun hits gets quite a bit more color than what is portrayed in this engine at the moment. Desaturated+high contrast =/= realistic.

Here we go:

ex.1: http://imgur.com/a/faQVQ (bit too green, sorry)

ex.2: http://imgur.com/a/Olsuq (shadows were really black on this one, so it was hard to highlight the fact that details in shadows aren't lost this dramatically IRL)

(screenshot from ArmA2oa betapatch 93825 / DayZ / 10am in-game)

I'd just like to repeat: The human eye isn't a camera. It can pick up a lot more contrast levels and don't convert any shade into black just because there's a little sun around. So don't use photos as reference for designing tone mapping ingame if you're shooting for realism.

Now I can turn up digital vibrance in nvidia settings, which does add some more much needed color to the game, but it does not take care of the shadows and strongly fluctuating gamma levels depending on where I'm standing/looking.

Reducing the ammount of detail lost in shadows (lowering dynamic contrast levels) would be a step in the right direction. :)

Edited June 16, 2012 by scrahn

[jumpinghubert 49]

@scrahn

true in all points! I think the problem is that maybe too much people wants to play the game as a film, not as reality.

[fraczek 4]

Comparison screenshot gallery here, including vanilla 1.60

I offer some feedback, from a graphic artist playing on calibrated Eizo LCD capable of shadow separation down to levels 2-3 from 0.

TL;DR:

New beta default tonecurve brings some clipped, pitch black shadows during daytime, more contrast and pleasing colours (from higher contrast).

Tonemapping method - observations

1) Arma - most shadow detail, compressed highlights, for casual user looking "bland" but IMO shows most RL-like view (just up saturation for RL-like vivrant colours)

2) Reinhard - Dwarden's parameters (0.9,-0.00987) - the most horrible (sorry David ;)), too much contrast, horrible shadow clipping (outside in forest, all fern trees and tree shadows are clipped to 0 black. I don't remember pitch black ferns in Ceske stredohori from my hiking trips there ;D. Upped contrast makes the image pop out and colours the illusion of more vibrant, but it's just contrast and clipped shadows. Looks like 20 years old slide film underexposed in a Zenit ;-)

3) Reinhard - Maruk's parameters (0.9,-0.003) - somewhat better than Dwarden's, still too contrasty and some clipped shadows, but not so much (while Dwarden's clipped whole fern trees to pitch black, now only the inside part of the shadowed tree is pitch black).

4) New Beta default (without any custom tone_mapping code) - similar to Maruk's, still some shadow clipping, tiny less contrast.

5) Vanilla (pre-beta) - Much lighter then the ones above, but shadows can be too light. All too familiar Arma 2, sometimes too much light.

Problems:

Both Maruk's and especially Dwarden's Reinhard parameters totally block up shadows on a sunny day. By block up I mean the shadows are pitch black, clipped to level 0 if loaded into photo editor.

The new Beta default setting also blocks up shadows, about the same as Maruk's params.

That was testing at full noon sunny day with slight overcast.

Question to devs

Could you please elaborate more on the setEyeAdaptMax and setEyeAdaptMin commands?

Kudos to devs

for allowing us the control in the first place! Please just reconsider the black shadows as a new default :)

System settings: AMD 6870, Win8 latest Catalyst 8.93.7.

Ingame settings: All Very High for sake of testing (including HDR & PostProcessing), editor Chernarus 16th June 2012 12:00 ingame, slight overcast.

Edited June 16, 2012 by fraczek

[OMAC 254]

^ ^ Well done. It is interesting that vanilla 1.60 tone is not the same as the new "Arma" setting, which contradicts tpw's post #72 above. Also, there seems to be a slight difference between default 93825 and Maruk's Reinhard.... ?? It would help if devs could describe what exactly default settings are.

Again, "Arma" is the best for me, Maruk's Reinhard second.

[fraczek 4]

^ ^ Well done. It is interesting that vanilla 1.60 tone is not the same as the new "Arma" setting, which contradicts tpw's post #72 above. Also, there seems to be a slight difference between default 93825 and Maruk's Reinhard.... ??

I am not sure. Mind you, the screenshots were taken each in its own editor session (place soldier, place nearby gamelogic, preview, abort, change the gamelogic init for diff. tonemap, preview,...), not by scripting to switch them instantly in one session, like I should have done (will do later). So there might by very slight differences in brightness due to the quirky way the engine reacts to sky. From your screenshots it seems Maruk's and 93825 are the same. Hard to tell ;-) I really can't be sure until I script it. I of course didn't move and waited around 30 seconds for the exposure to stabilise, but who knows how it works...

However, the main issue for me are the severely clipped shadows during daytime. That's why I prefer "Arma" or "Filmic", since they at least display something in the shadows (although Filmic being overall darker, it does not clip the shadows unlike Maruk/Dwarden Reinhard). Although I can understand why DayZ and other night mods would want to have clipped shadows (no more gamma/brightness exploit anymore at night), having them clipped in daytime as well sucks :)

Edited June 16, 2012 by fraczek

[OMAC 254]

Although I can understand why DayZ and other night mods would want to have clipped shadows (no more gamma/brightness exploit anymore at night), having them clipped in daytime as well sucks :)

I agree 110%! :)

[Dwarden 1125]

fraczek no commentary about "filmic" ?

btw. my Reinahrd value was aimed on fixing only very specific period of time (glare prior sunrise / glare after sunset)

to remove overbright sky, unfortunately it doesn't pan out that well in different timeframes...

i like "Filmic" more actually i would like to try some lighter / softer variant of the "Filmic"

these are lighter

"filmic" setToneMappingParams [0.07, 0.31, 0.23, 0.37, 0.011, 3.750, 6, 4]; setToneMapping "Filmic";

bit less lighter than above, still lighter than default filmic

"filmic" setToneMappingParams [0.11, 0.31, 0.23, 0.37, 0.011, 3.750, 6, 4]; setToneMapping "Filmic";

Edited June 16, 2012 by Dwarden

[tremanarch 6]

a little offtopic I suppose - but to show that the server can alter the settings also I guess: I made another comparison shots:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/120616/tvzxbg5y.jpg

this one is from DayZ

http://s1.directupload.net/images/120616/e9tg7a4b.jpg

i went straight into the editor at the same time and made this screenshot.

you can see that the server makes sth. that the light is darker...

just to clear things up a little bit.

edit: great screenshots guys! I like the idea of tweaking also the colours a littlebit, some good results. But how do they work in the game?

Edited June 16, 2012 by tremanarch

[NeuroFunker 11]

I made another comparison shots:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/120616/tvzxbg5y.jpg

this one is from DayZ

http://s1.directupload.net/images/120616/e9tg7a4b.jpg

i went straight into the editor at the same time and made this screenshot.

you can see that the server makes sth. that the light is darker...

just to clear things up a little bit.

don't forget about the date, and weather. It has also impact on how dark the night is. Why won't you compare both tonemaps just in editor, with exact same time/date/weather setting?

[Dwarden 1125]

ofcourse You can setup it on server, mission w/e ...

i run various Filmic values on test DayZ servers too see how people react ...

[tremanarch 6]

I am just fiddling with the reinhard model and the filmic..

just not so sure what the parameters are all about.

is there a paramset that can handle the colours all differently?

do i need a special HDR setting (high or normal) and post render setting?

what I use normally in Gimp are these kind of tools: http://s14.directupload.net/images/120617/ohrvqc5k.jpg

but I understand now: tone mapping is just for decreasing the contrast spectrum of an image. ;) i slowly get it ^^

is there a trick to alter the parameters ingame? (by maybe moving a car along a street for each value as a slider or so?)

Edited June 16, 2012 by tremanarch

[grothaur 10]

is there a trick to alter the parameters ingame? (by maybe moving a car along a street for each value as a slider or so?)

You can change them on the fly with the debug console from the armaholic site (Downloads / Arma 2 / Editing / Tools / Debug Console)

... forum doesn't allow me to post a working link as 1st time post ;)

Edit: i forgot to mention that you need to remove the console file again (delete/move from addon folder) to be able to play online.

Edited June 17, 2012 by grothaur

[fraczek 4]

I am still somewhat confused about both methods ( I am still reading up on CGI tonemapping)

- Reinhard has just two parameters, with the first affecting the highlights clipping and maybe overall key of the scene, second affecting the shadows (mostly seems just like a shadow cutout, the bigger it is the sooner shadows get clipped). Does the key value get computed automatically, or is it set manually once for all? But Filmic with SetToneMappingParams uses 7 parameters? Do these params affect the image curve directly, or through some equation?

And is there any local adaptation difference between the two methods?

Gameplay wise, I still don't know which I would prefer :) The new ones look nice, Filmic will have nice cutscene use definitely (especially since we can change the params), normal missions? Arma or Reinhard? Still not sure...:)

Gammadust, could you give me an example of your script to change the values on the fly (seems you did from the screenshots you posted)? I am really bad when it comes to Arma scripting, but I would like to explore the different values on the fly. Debug console (thanks for reminding me, grothaur!) will help here, although I would really like to use/modify a script tied to keypress EH or something like that.

And yeah, Dwarden, I remember your testing in your DayZ server - at one point I did not see anything in the forest during day with some insane amount of contrast you tried out :D

Still, that's the point of testing, so I am off to more testing...

[OMAC 254]

these are lighter

"filmic" setToneMappingParams [0.07, 0.31, 0.23, 0.37, 0.011, 3.750, 6, 4]; setToneMapping "Filmic";

Dwarden's custom filmic is a big improvement, but still pretty dark, especially in low light situations. Here is a vid taken with the settings, using brightness 0.9, gamma 1.0. Daytime 6pm, October. The vids come out pretty dark; in actual play the brightness/gamma lightened things up a bit.

sdAU5JIm42M

Here's one using Arma tone mapping.

982EzGMWcHA

Default (Reinhard):

MwJQT8DFv8c

1.60 vanilla:

FnkI2x18phQ

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I believe the island of Chernarus (older lighting technology maybe?) is partly to blame for the excessive dark nights. On moonless nice weather nights, Chernarus/Utes ground is pitch black (and has always been so) until sun is around 5° below the horizon with enough atmospheric glow to suggest some light to be present. This appears to be fixed in newer Takistan map, where in the same conditions I can get sun as low as 15° below the horizon and still be able to have barely visible ground. The glow is a bit more, but the ground is barely visible.

I don't play DayZ (don't believe I would enjoy it, besides I've just heard about it), but completely dark ground when there is enough atmospheric glow to suggest you should be able to see something, I can agree on completely defies the idea of realism. Again, it's bad on Chernarus, but good enough on Takistan. It is up to mission maker to make sure such bad conditions doesn't come up, usually by always providing some kind of moonlight to make up for lack of lighting due atmospheric glow. I'm not sure how I'd attack this on a real time server though. Pitch dark conditions does exist from time to time, but they tend to last a lot shorter than in Chernarus map when moon is not present and weather is nice.

I haven't played much yet with the new tonemapping commands, other than noticing that I don't like the amount of shadow clipping going on. Also, the commands setEyeAdaptMax and setEyeAdaptMin I couldn't get any response from whatsoever (when fed in using the debug console).

[gammadust 12]

Gammadust, could you give me an example of your script to change the values on the fly (seems you did from the screenshots you posted)? I am really bad when it comes to Arma scripting, but I would like to explore the different values on the fly.

for an interactive method:

gen_action.sqf

/*	---Generic Action Script---
Author: [EVO] Curry
Function: Enables you to run any code directly from the addAction command
Installation: Copy into your missions folder and call this file through addAction
Example usage:  
	In init of something
	this addAction ["Say Hello World!","gen_action.sqf","player sideChat 'Hello World!';"];

Notes: Recommended only for simple code or for testing scripts/functions designed for inits and triggers
*/

//Parameter one: String or Code - Whatever commands you want to issue, remember to check the syntax ;)

private ["_target","_caller","_ID","_arguments"];
_target 	= _this select 0;
_caller 	= _this select 1;
_ID			= _this select 2;
_arguments 	= _this select 3;

switch (typeName _arguments) do {
case "STRING": 	
{
	nul = [_target,_caller,_ID] spawn (compile _arguments);
};
case "CODE":	
{
	nul = [_target,_caller,_ID] spawn _arguments;
};
default			
{
	diag_log text "Error in gen_action.sqf: Invalid type passed to function.";
};
};

and:

init.sqf:

player addAction ["Arma", "gen_action.sqf", {setToneMapping "Arma"; hintSilent "Arma";}];
player addAction ["Reinhard", "gen_action.sqf", {setToneMapping "Reinhard"; hintSilent "Reinhard";}];
player addAction ["Filmic", "gen_action.sqf", {setToneMapping "Filmic"; hintSilent "Filmic";}];

i don't know how to reference the default... so it is not included. I was initialy only using a basic cycle with a 5 sec delay. The gen_action script is a very handy one for basic menu stuff, thank [EVO] Curry.