Syria - What should we do if anything?

[Yairweinberg 1]

Well I've been following the civil war in syria for quite a while (Im glad this forum allows us to talk about these sort of stuff since most others dont.) and I'm having the wierdest feeling that someone is going to intervene and by someone I mean either the US, Israel, Turkey, EU, France or NATO (Yes I named member states of the organizations but I mean only them) or the combination of some of them.

Why?

Well lets start with the reason why everyone but Israel and Turkey might intervene:

Well according to France they have reports that Assad has been using chemical weapons since the decision has been made to disarm Syria from them.

Remember the last time Assad used to chemical weapons? Yeah when Obama threatened to attack Syria... He didnt because well thats up to you to decide but if these reports turn out to be true then well what can the west do then? He already broke his promise now so what will be the next step? Holland (President of France) has already shown his will to attack Syria last time what will hold them back now?

Now the US might be worried more about Ukraine so there is a slight chance that they wont intervene but the rest of NATO is more then capable of bringing down Assad...

Turkey might Intrevene from 2 reasons.

A) Turkeys president hates Assad and would love to take down his regime.

B) To distract the Turkish people from the internal crisis.

Now as for Israel:

I've seen more and more reports lately that make me believe that Israel is preparing itself for a potentional intervantion in Syria. Yesterday there was a report on ynet (Israeli news website both in english and hebrew) about the IDF new training system for ground forces... The new system involves smart dolls (Yes not cardboard but dolls...) to represent Civilians and Enemy combatants, New and improved laser indicator for troops to use when mimicking a firefight... Now these are the changes that arent actually related to the situation but here are the ones that are: Israel is building a new training zone mimicking a Lebanese village which involves 300 buildings and some tunnels, Israel is also building fake Syrian outposts and yes they did say Syrian outposts for troops to train on.

The IDF also makes plans to teach troops how to properly ambush tanks and use Anti tank weapons. The training involves coordination between Tanks, Infantry and Air support, which means they are planning to take outposts and clear houses. It also been noted that they are training tank crews to work in urban enviorment better and they said its "Runned down" urban enviorment meaning its been hit hard... Like the one in Syria... Now what I find even more interesting is Today Im unable to find the article... Meaning its been taken down. Why? Well I dont know but what I do know is, Israel has a law that allows the goverment to not allow media to publish something and can order them to take it down once they have so keep that in mind.

Now I wish I could say thats all that has happened in Israel but a few weeks ago there have been other articles about an unknown high rank officer in the IDF telling his media contact that the goverment has been thinking over its "None involvment" strategy in Syria and has infact considered an invasion into Syria to bring down Assads regime and ensure Islamists dont take control. There has been no follow up to that but it was reported over some media sites, some Israeli some foreign. What also happened some time ago was that a road side bomb detonated in the Golan height while troops where driving by on their patrol. Now Hezbollah did take responsibillity for that attack and the IDF was well aware that it was it since like 2 weeks before there were reports that Israel attacked an Arms convoy to hezbollah while it was crossing the border into lebanon from Syria. Now Israel did what it usally does and just ignored it but also known that hezbollah might react. And so it did but what was quite outstanding was that after the road side bomb (I mean right after like a few minutes) Israel ordered artillery to fire into Syria. Now thats not a big deal Israel has been known to make a few attacks here and there into Syria which it did claim it was responsible for but after that at the evening of the same day, the IDF launched a big attack onto Syrian outposts and bases using Artillery and tanks firing from the Israeli side of the border and F-16s dropping bombs onto Syrian positions from inside Syrian air space. Israel claimed that they saw the Assad regime directly responsible for the road side bomb and also said that any further actions of this sort will basically be

"Signing their own death sentence".

Now everyone in Israel does military (Well Jews and Druze as for the rest its voluntarily) and so do I. Now I've been noticing something strange and so did some of my friends... Lately we've been hereing a lot of lectures which most are completely unrelated to Syria yet at some points during those lectures they managed to shove Syria in there... Now it would be fine and dandy if it was simply using Syria as an example but no... Like on an air force strike capabillity and how ground crews are just as important as the pilots lecture they said "The aircraft mechanics need to always be on the ready and must always do their jobs correctly because for example if the day comes when we need to bomb damascus we'll also need to counter the Syrian air force and for that the aircrafts need to be ready to intercept the (Syrian) migs, which make the jobs of the ground crews even more important" at that point I stared at my friend and asked him if he saw something off with the lecture and he said no. A lot of times we also get reports about the IDF training in the golan heights and coverage of the training... Its almost like they are trying to prepare us for the day Israel decalres war on Syria...

http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/images/syrian_war.jpg (284 kB)

Another thing is (And I wish there wasnt so much because I am damn tired of typing) over the years of war Israel has been taking in wounded people from Syria some of them were FSA combatants according to foreign news. The Syrian people attitude toward Israel has been changing quite steadily through out this war from hating Israels guts to starting to think of Israel as a potentional ally. This was done:

1) because of them seeing Israel taking care of wounded which by the way the villagers near the border with Israel say they want Israel to intervene.

and

2) Because Israel has been bombing Assad every now and again and although it was for its own interest the Syrian anti regime fighters see it as helpful.

Israel might see this as a way to get rid of Irans reach to Israel because to be honest without Syria the Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah dont have much to go for as their main weapon supplier and their shelter especially againest what they fear being Israels nukes so Syria had chemical weapons to pose a threat aswell. It might also be a way to get to the rest of the Arab nations in the middle east as if Israel does help Syria theres a good chance for peace especially since an FSA leader said he'll be willing to trade the golan heights for Israeli assistance againest assad claiming "Its my land so why shouldnt I be able to trade it for military aid?" which Israel might want for the world to recognize it as Israeli territory which Israel did annex already but its not recognized by the world.

Lastly theres hezbollah taking out Syria will mean the end of high tech weapons such as the kornet ATGM falling into hezbollah hands making hezbollah a lot weaker. Israel has been engaged in a media campaign againest hezbollah which can be seen in the youtube IDF PR channel or in reports about hezbollah doing this and that. You could say it also helps Israel againest the terror groups in the gaza strip but really they never pose a real threat to Israel in the first place.

Now lets get to When this might happened:

Well as for NATO and the rest its pretty much at any time really they dont really care when since Assads chemical weapons dont post a threat to the West unless they send troops in on foot. It can harm Israel but I doubt they care that much especially when every civilian in Israel has a gas mask on the ready and if they dont they can get one for free.

As for Israel its pretty much only after Assad gets rid of his chemical weapons as I dont think they will risk him launching chemical armed scuds at Israels cities especially when he knows he got nothing to lose. Not even a threat of nuclear retaliation will scare someone who knows either way his going down so why not bring down his enemies with him. Even if Israel intercepts the scuds its not like nuclear warheads which need to be activated or else they wont explode even if they were intercepted, chemical weapons are gasses and would be released if intercepted resulting in the same situation especially if they would be launched and flown lower to the ground...

So untill Assads weapons of mass destruction are gone I dont believe we would be seeing any Israeli invasion into syria.

Now for something I believe some would wonder, would the arab nations (Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar and so on) attack? No. Why? They would risk their people thinking they are on the same side as Israel even though Im sure Saudia would love to stick it to Iran by taking down assad they wouldnt risk the Islamists within the nation starting problems.

http://blogs.cfr.org/husain/files/2012/04/husain-saudi-military-04202012.jpg (116 kB)

What do you think? Is an intervention coming? And who would it be? Post! I always love to hear what other people say!

[katipo66 94]

The media has completely lied about the chemical weapons but whatever, same shit different invasion, sure, let them join all their foreign buddies, same click, different camo. you might want to search as there is already a thread for this

[Yairweinberg 1]

Not with my points and just about Syria...

[Tonci87 163]

Nobody is going to intervene.

Nobody wants to support Assad since he is a dictator with few friends. Nobody want to support the Rebels since they have batshitcrazy lunatics among them. Israel is just going to let them kill each other instead of getting involved in this mess.

The only head of state who is crazy enough t poke this hornet nest would be Erdogan. Now that he is President again he is free to do whatever he wants for the next few years. He might think that a little military glory might just be the thing to stop people talking about his corruption scandal.

If anybody intervenes he will find himself in a very very nasty situation. The fighting has been going on for years and soldiers on both sides are true combat veterans who know how to fight. The destroyed cities provide a battleground that no training can prepare you for.

[Yairweinberg 1]

Nobody is going to intervene.

Nobody wants to support Assad since he is a dictator with few friends. Nobody want to support the Rebels since they have batshitcrazy lunatics among them. Israel is just going to let them kill each other instead of getting involved in this mess.

The only head of state who is crazy enough t poke this hornet nest would be Erdogan. Now that he is President again he is free to do whatever he wants for the next few years. He might think that a little military glory might just be the thing to stop people talking about his corruption scandal.

If anybody intervenes he will find himself in a very very nasty situation. The fighting has been going on for years and soldiers on both sides are true combat veterans who know how to fight. The destroyed cities provide a battleground that no training can prepare you for.

You're giving them too much credit... "Combat veterans" is hardly the case... They can fight for years but at the end all the nations I mentioned have militaries who are far more experienced and far better equipped and trained then them... Their time fighting each other actually might hurt them if they'll need to fight someone else as all their tactics and strategies are based on their enemies. Also they will be tired and they would make mistakes. Assads military is now acting more like a heavily armed militia then a proper conventional military but they are trained as a conventional military so basically they lost both options. The forces that have gained experience are Hezbollah (Because it didn't change it's role just added to it) and Al Qaeda since they are learning how to counter a low end military and other militias.

[Tonci87 163]

Combat is the best training you can get and they had years of this. Those guys won´t loose their nerves once the shooting starts, they are used to it.

[.kju 3245]

You might find this discussion interesting hosted by New_America_Foundation (wiki background):

The War in Syria

Make sure to read and follow up on the speakers background though.

[fabio_chavez 103]

ive been eagerly following patrick cockburns coverage of the syria conflict in the recent month,

its a remarkable journalist and a essential source of information for many reputable politcal commentators and journalists themself.

http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/patrick-cockburn

[fabio_chavez 103]

please remember: "circumstantial evidence" and "proof" are two different things.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/05/u-n-probe-chief-doubtful-syria-sarin-exposure-claims/

[ProfTournesol 956]

Assad is gaining Homs back, that's a major victory : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27306525

[sgtsev3n 12]

Syria - What should we do if anything?

simple: stop supporting terrorists in syria !

[Joe98 92]

ISIS are not terrorists.

They hate us and want to kill us and rape our wives and our mothers - but they are not terrorists.

Instead their opinion is different to your opinion.

That's my opinion.

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[sgtsev3n 12]

ISIS are not terrorists.

They hate us and want to kill us and rape our wives and our mothers - but they are not terrorists.

Instead their opinion is different to your opinion.

That's my opinion.

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.

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ISIS are terrorists. what u talking about?

not only ISIS are terrorists, but al-nusra, islamic front and free syrian army are also terrorists.

[vilas 477]

terrorist is person who put bomb to make terror - scare someone

goal of terrorist is to scare someone or to get political goal (force government to do something)

by definition of terrorism, they are not terrorists, they do not want to scare someone, they want to ELIMINATE those who are "infidels"

was SS terrorist organization putting Jews to death camps ? no, SS wanted Jews to NOT EXIST on planet, not scare them and force them to make few decisions,

in case of Islamists they do not act to scare anyone, they simply want to kill us all because we do not believe in Allah, they are the same as SS was in WW2,

they are like SS, but Muslim SS, they do not want force government to do something, they want to be government on whole globe and create Caliphate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate )

so indeed by definition they are not terrorist, they are army of "religious state without borders that wants to eliminate anyone else and create new state based on religion"

so i think he might wanted to say that if they were terrorists, they would act different - not to eliminate whole non-Islamic population of globe, but only to for example scare people and force few political decisions ?

goal of terrorist is not to eliminate everyone, but goal is to force some decisions , so you know, it is like discussion "what is communism" cause we use "communism" word when we often talk about USSR while in fact there was no REAL communism by definition of Marx, Engels, Lenin (lack of private property, lack of money) because there were private owned cars, there was money for which you could buy products, in real by-definition comunism you do not have money, cause product is given to you by state when you need (food, flat) or used by different people (car) when they need

Edited June 19, 2014 by vilas

[Xalteva 10]

in case of Islamists they do not act to scare anyone, they simply want to kill us all because we do not believe in Allah, they are the same as SS was in WW2,

they are like SS, but Muslim SS, they do not want force government to do something, they want to be government on whole globe and create Caliphate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate )

so indeed by definition they are not terrorist, they are army of "religious state without borders that wants to eliminate anyone else and create new state based on religion"

Now this is some high quality conspiracy right out of vilas' fantasies about muslims :D !

Seriously dude,stop watching what you are watching and get a ticket for some muslim country !

Here are some quotes from that wiki page (doesn't resemble to isis at all :D)

In its earliest days, the first caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, exhibited elements of direct democracy (shura).

The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.

Caliphate is not that bad after all !

Edited June 19, 2014 by Xalteva

[vilas 477]

get a ticket for some muslim country !

maybe ticket to London, Paris, Malmo, Marseile is enough ? my friends living in London already told me some stories, my friend who were visiting Paris for busines trip also told me a little after night stay in one hotel what happens on street, i do not need to go to Egipt or Libia, i was in Italy in May and i seen churches which were guarded by Italian Army soldiers who were using metal-detectors to check rucksacks if someone doesn't come to destroy Catholic church memorabilia inside church etc.

it was first time in my life that i seen that Church has to be protected by armed men, in Austria we were not looked by soldiers when we were entering Cathedral, but in Italy we had to be , because danger of attack exists,

or what Muslim country you talk about ?

this where gays are beheaded ? or this where "earth is flat and wearing short skirts by women causes earthquake" ? or maybe this country in which my girlfriend would be arrested because she is my girlfriend but not my formal wife (no marriage formality because we live together 5 years without need to sign any paper for it) ? or maybe this country in which if someone would try to rape her, she would go to prison ? can i buy there salami pizza or pizza with ham or spaghetti carbonara with beacon and cup of wine , can we take dog to such trip or it will be killed ?

France has so lovely architecture, can i take a walk in the evening across Marsilie with my Canon EOS 7D on neck and return safely ? can you draw caricature of Jesus in my country ? yes you can, can you draw caricature of... wait a moment, who had been threatened to be killed ? can you burn Bible in my country ? one Black Metal guy made this, is he alive ? yes he is alive, what would be if someone do the same to ,,, ?

by the way can you explain to me why woman who was walking with her dog for 20 years was attacked cause someone said that since now this park is Muslim area and dogs are not allowed ?

in case of Syria we should support Assad if he tries to more secularize country , country/state should be secular organization

Edited June 20, 2014 by vilas

[Xalteva 10]

maybe ticket to London, Paris, Malmo, Marseile is enough ? my friends living in London already told me some stories, my friend who were visiting Paris for busines trip also told me a little after night stay in one hotel what happens on street, i do not need to go to Egipt or Libia, i was in Italy in May and i seen churches which were guarded by Italian Army soldiers who were using metal-detectors to check rucksacks if someone doesn't come to destroy Catholic church memorabilia inside church etc.

it was first time in my life that i seen that Church has to be protected by armed men, in Austria we were not looked by soldiers when we were entering Cathedral, but in Italy we had to be , because danger of attack exists,

or what Muslim country you talk about ?

this where gays are beheaded ? or this where "earth is flat and wearing short skirts by women causes earthquake" ? or maybe this country in which my girlfriend would be arrested because she is my girlfriend but not my formal wife (no marriage formality because we live together 5 years without need to sign any paper for it) ? or maybe this country in which if someone would try to rape her, she would go to prison ? can i buy there salami pizza or pizza with ham or spaghetti carbonara with beacon and cup of wine , can we take dog to such trip or it will be killed ?

France has so lovely architecture, can i take a walk in the evening across Marsilie with my Canon EOS 7D on neck and return safely ? can you draw caricature of Jesus in my country ? yes you can, can you draw caricature of... wait a moment, who had been threatened to be killed ? can you burn Bible in my country ? one Black Metal guy made this, is he alive ? yes he is alive, what would be if someone do the same to ,,, ?

by the way can you explain to me why woman who was walking with her dog for 20 years was attacked cause someone said that since now this park is Muslim area and dogs are not allowed ?

in case of Syria we should support Assad if he tries to more secularize country , country/state should be secular organization

You are very wrong ! your problem is that you are making of isolated cases a general rule ! which can be said for every country ... what happened to those children in zandvoort few years ago doesn't say anything about Netherlands,same for the guys who burnt the mosk last year in poland ,the buddhists burning alive rohinga people in birmania (there are many examples).

I have been to many muslim countries during my life especially in mediterranean area ,there are no such things as you describe ! you can literally do whatever you want,like in any european country,people there simply don't care at all ,you could find a mosk in a place and few meters further a church without any soldier or sort of protection ... supermarkets sell beer and all sort of alcohol,even met some guys who claim themselves as muslims but drink those !

I have even read about the religion itself (which apparently you have never done) ! yes some foods/wine are forbidden,it has the story of sodom and gomorrah like all other religions (judaism,christianism) ,some severe punishements for fornication,burglary,terrorism etc ! but those do not apply to non muslims,and not anyone can do his own justice ... there are no ethnic/gays genocids (You should start posting sources by the way) !

My point here is that you should stop seeing things like the way you do : if it's not black then it should be white,it's much complex than you think ! once you start judging individuals instead of communities,you will start seeing clearer !

Check this,if you are interested !

Edited June 26, 2014 by Xalteva

[vilas 477]

there are no such things as you describe !

so 1000 Yutube movies lie ? so many TV stations lie, so my friends in London lie, so movies from Youtube are with actors ? there are hundreds if not thousands YT movies showing violence against natives

Edited June 20, 2014 by vilas

[Xalteva 10]

so 1000 Yutube movies lie ? so many TV stations lie, so my friends in London lie, so movies from Youtube are with actors ? there are hundreds if not thousands YT movies showing violence against natives

Yeah go ahead ! post them ... and turn this thread into a total offtopic one like you always do with your religion-phobia !

Edited June 20, 2014 by Xalteva

[vilas 477]

why you defend Islamists so much in topics about Iraq and Syria and previously with 9/11 topic ?

normal people fight with religious terror, not deny it , but you deny Islamist terrorism and violence, why ?

[Xalteva 10]

normal people fight with religious terror, not deny it , but you deny Islamist terrorism and violence, why ?

At this point ,i have to give up the discussion,it's so useless !

[sgtsev3n 12]

At this point ,i have to give up the discussion,it's so useless !

yeah. dont waste your time.

@vilas

anyway, this is what happen when you watching too much TV where they blame everything to muslims and/or when you watch videos in internet about fannatics (btw, there exist fannatics in every religion) and you generalize that. you cant blame a religion and all people of a religion just because a small amount are violent. look at the terrorist breivik from norway who was more or less a "christian fannatic". now are all christians like that ? same as israel, look what the brutal israeli state doing at palestinians and remember: there are christian palestinians and jewish and also jews who are not palestinians and who reject the state of israel and the state of israel are violent at all, no matter if jewish, christiani or islamic. anyway back to topic: just because israeli state are killing innocent, does not mean all jews are like israel terrorist state.

there are also atheist terrorists and criminals and i say those things as atheist myself. you cant blame a whole religion and all of its people just because a small amount are criminals.

so stop your anti-islamic comments and dont turn this topic into a "i hate islam". you almost turned my 9/11 topic into that. leave this theard and if you want to blame islam for whatever then create a new topic but leave us alone with your anti-islamic views. we have understand that you hate islam, ok ? no need to confront us. and stop your "why u defend al-qaeda and terrorists" just because we say not all muslims are extremists. this sounds just stupid.

there is one point in your post which is true: we should support assad rather than criminals FSA or extremists like al-nusra/ISIS. also, the FSA doesnt really exist anymore, my friend in syria told me that they are very rare and alot of the joined al-nusra or ISIS.

[negah 26]

You cant just blame one religion, for example Turkey's main religion is islam, yet they are not leading a "holy war" against others.

In fact there are a lot of Turks living in Germany and Ive never seen a religious fanatic among them. Ive been in Turkey on vacation once, and observed the same there.

IMO the reason for religious (or whatever) fanatism is based on the cultural evolution of people.

Remember that during the crusades the muslim world was better developed than the cristian one. In that time the cristians were leading a holy war against muslim people.

Hoever Europe has made a leap in evolution at one point and could conquer most of the islamic states later on. Turkey, which was the Osmanic Empire back then, was strong enough to defend itself and could therefore develop itself (culture, science, economy, politics) further.

Other countries that were not so lucky and became colonies were prevented by their masters from evolving so that they could be controlled easier. So now, roughly 70-60 years after the end of colonial era we have a lot of countries which are (roughly speaking) mentally at the level of Middle Age Europe. Religion is just one aspect of their culture, but it can be used to brainwash people to move them to do something and it is broadly abused by their leaders. In fact its not that different in countries which are arrogantly believed (usually by those who live there) to be centers of civilization today. Look at the USA, it has got christian preachers who burn Quran and agitate their followers to hate all muslims. And what they call patriotism, is called nazism in Germany. Look at Europe, all those liberal ideas (I wont name them, some people here feel themselves offended by everything and are quick to report, but I guess you know what I mean) are totally exaggerated and are actually not that much supported by the broad mass of people, but hey its what seems to be the new ideology of the EU. So instead of religious fanatism we got ideoligies, movements and so on.

[x3kj 1247]

In fact there are a lot of Turks living in Germany and Ive never seen a religious fanatic among them. Ive been in Turkey on vacation once, and observed the same there."]In fact there are a lot of Turks living in Germany and Ive never seen a religious fanatic among them. Ive been in Turkey on vacation once, and observed the same there.

It's estimated that 300 German Islamist Extremists have joined "Jihad" in Syria... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41lV9UNqyIk

(source spiegel.de, cant find the article at a glance).

This doesnt mean that islam=extremist of course, it just means where there is religion there may be extremists. Same could be said for political beliefs too. militant democracy in Libya and Ukraine... Or rather militant actions under the disguise of democracy

Edited June 21, 2014 by Fennek

[oxmox 73]

Islamic State (IS) seize important strategically airport in northeastern Syria

Activists say Islamic State of Iraq and Syria fighters have captured a major military air base in northeastern Syria, eliminating the last government-held outpost in an area dominated by the extremist group.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says the jihadis broke through the Tabqa air field's defenses Sunday and routed the government forces.

The SANA state news agency confirmed that the government had lost the air base, saying troops "are successfully reassembling after evacuating the airport."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-captures-major-air-base-in-syria/

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/syrien-islamischer-staat-erobert-militaerflughafen-tabka-a-987828.html

Map of Syria and Iraq shows the different controlled areas ( 14th August 2014)

* pink color shows the controlled areas of IS

*yellow color = kurds

* orange color = rebels

* green color = government troops

* light colors = low populated deserts

Edited August 24, 2014 by oxmox