Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

[katipo66 94]

Ahem, they already cooked up a such a system for A3. Quote form A3 site:

So does it affect your ability to run across the whole map non-stop?

[jblackrupert 14]

I don't think the community wants a BF clone...

Advance and Secure is a Battlefield style mode and it hasn't caused the downfall of Arma.

Bohemia adding a PVP filter to the browser to make finding those servers easier for those who want to play them isn't going to hurt you.

Arma is what the mission makers and modders want it to be.

[Maio 293]

So does it affect your ability to run across the whole map non-stop?

Well see that's the thing. In theory it should... however it might just slow you down based on how much gear you are packing... which is nevertheless a welcomed addition. Details are still scarce... we just know it exists :)

[froggyluv 2135]

It's not a matter of mission design/parameters Arma and BF just feel totally different for a variety of reasons. Most of them have been talked to death ie..animations/player control/sound/indoor maneuverability/frenzied pace etc... A mission designer could replicate every facet of BF3 and it wouln't feel anything like it.

[EvilHomer 1]

Will they FINALLY make on online mulitplayer that will compete with those titles? As of now their game is far above those two. However I don't understand the business decision to not even try and compete in the lucrative online PvP multiplayer? They leave it up to random individuals with low populated servers. PLEASE try. You have the game, just build it!!!

Dude there is NO COMPETITION. its not about bis making a game that can compete with cod or what ever the populist game developers can come up with next. ARMA (OFP) has always been in a class of it's own and should stay that way. we are actually a lot of players that enjoy a game that is not disturbed by every pre-puberty teen with anger problems from shanghai to chicago!

Evil

[pathetic_berserker 4]

It's not a matter of mission design/parameters Arma and BF just feel totally different for a variety of reasons. Most of them have been talked to death ie..animations/player control/sound/indoor maneuverability/frenzied pace etc... A mission designer could replicate every facet of BF3 and it wouln't feel anything like it.

Still missing the point. No-one is asking to replicate the feel of BF, just for some PvP that will compete with BF. So yes it is just a matter of mission design/parameters. The differences apparent in the two games are still requisite to competing with BF as that is what disguishes Arma from the rest.

There is no game mechanic in Arma that excludes Arma from being a decent PvP platform (esp now the likes of Celery and Smookie are dev's) and no need to make any change that would effect the mil sim style of play.

And there is definatley no harm in finding away to appeal to a broader player base by polishing a PvP mode and providing some substance for it out of the box.

Then hopefully I'll be able to sit down once in a while and play an hour or so of some quick DM or CTF, as I no longer have the time for long sim missions, and I'll still be playing my favorite game.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Pathetic_Berserker

[celery 8]

I think the issue is the vagueness of the concept in the original post. It is hard to imagine how a mission could both alter a game like you say, or suddenly make it competitive with the mainstream FPSs. I think most of the posts in the thread are made under the assumption that more would have to change than just the mission.

The OP clearly means out-of-the-box pvp missions, it's just that everyone else wants him to mean the worst possible misinterpretation to get a chance to show how much they love realism or hate everything else:

However I don't understand the business decision to not even try and compete in the lucrative online PvP multiplayer? They leave it up to random individuals with low populated servers. PLEASE try. You have the game, just build it!!!

I am just saying you need to have a section that appeals to mass gamers to grow this game. Personally I only stop playing ARMA1 and 2 because after a month the pvp servers are non existent because there is no support or attention given to them.

You could run n gun here if bohemia spent some time developing a game mode for it. No one is telling you ARMA has to lose its simulation play.

[JdB 151]

They won't let it compete with CoD or BF, they simply can't. Both publishers have much more money to spend on development and especially advertising (hyping) than BIS. They can create gamemodes or copy and alter existing ones to be more of a stepping stones towards the real "full-on" ArmA3 gameplay. A step up for those that want a game that offers a bigger challenge than BF, but does not dazzle and in a sense make them feel like they'll never learn (stamina for putting up with the learning curve remains to be seen) that ArmA games tend to do to the more casual players. Once they've gotten the hang of that, they can either keep playing that or progress to regular ArmA3. Creating a few more accessible gamemodes won't destroy the beloved gameplay that we have now, especially not since you can choose not to join a server that plays a more casual mode, game modes are a choice, the gameplay changes that many seem to fear would be required to make the game more diverse are not. It's easier to create additional easier gamemodes than it is to completely go back to the drawing board and redesign the whole gameplay experience which they wouldn't do since it would destroy their current customer base and put them in a competition that they can never hope to win. Accessibility isn't a matter of choosing between one way or another (good vs evil according to some/many), it is about offering diverse options to a (potentially more) diverse fanbase.

That of course doesn't mean that some of the core aspects of ArmA could do with some improvement, animations and movement (/CQB) especially.

Edited May 8, 2012 by JdB

[whiskeytango 11]

It might have been my imagination but it seemed like the transitions between movement and stances were faster in the recent arma 3video. If that's the case it will be easier to react and move in tight spaces which will be good.

[max power 21]

The OP clearly means out-of-the-box pvp missions, it's just that everyone else wants him to mean the worst possible misinterpretation to get a chance to show how much they love realism or hate everything else:

That could be part of it, but I think the notion that an out of the box PVP mission could suddenly make ArmA 3 in competition with CoD defies, at the very least, much relevent information.

[katipo66 94]

Isnt it as simple as looking at Dayz as an example?

If someone had said 3 months ago that a zombie mission would light a fire under bohemia's online ass everyone would have given the usual "noooo/cant be done/its not realistic/we are above and beyond" speeches.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

....but I think the notion that an out of the box PVP mission could suddenly make ArmA 3 in competition with CoD defies, at the very least, much relevent information.

Way I see it, with the number of people I've seen complain about the lack of PvP, there must be money to be made. Whether or not it actually competes with BF/COD on a number of servers populated basis is actualy irrelevant if all it takes is a handfull of BIS missions to trigger an upstanding PvP scene.

^^And yes Katipo66, good piont. My clan server had to lock down last month after exceeding quotas thanks to the popularity of Dayz

Edited May 8, 2012 by Pathetic_Berserker

[Leon86 13]

having a quick 'n dirty pvp option with short rounds and a scoreboard on the end would probably increase online popularity quite a bit.

I would even tolerate logging stats (to catch cheaters) and being able to see some of them on a site (to appeal to statwhores), I'd gladly click on a "play custom" button or something if it meant higher sales and more people online.

[NoRailgunner 0]

What is the average time that people will "have to like & play" A3 default missions before they can make/play their own or other ones? Maybe BIS could add an awesome mission editing/scripting guide out-of-the-box incl. templates for everyone?? Of course if the majority of the pvp scene just want to be spoon-fed - BIS could announce an exclusive A3 PvP ultimate DLC map pack.... lets say for 13,37 Euro?

[Phantom Six 25]

What is the average time that people will "have to like & play" A3 default missions before they can make/play their own or other ones? Maybe BIS could add an awesome mission editing/scripting guide out-of-the-box incl. templates for everyone?? Of course if the majority of the pvp scene just want to be spoon-fed - BIS could announce an exclusive A3 PvP ultimate DLC map pack.... lets say for 13,37 Euro?

That sounds like a free money feed :p . Honestly, making a simple and dirty mission isn't that hard in ARMA. Can't the PvP scene just do it themselves? Or are they not bright enough to? It's not that hard. ARMA at it release doesn't come with too many varieties of missions to be made. Just a few stock coop missions. Its the community who just add on more and more to the list.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Honestly, making a simple and dirty mission isn't that hard in ARMA. Can't the PvP scene just do it themselves? Or are they not bright enough to? It's not that hard..

Couldn't that same argument be directed at BIS? Whats more if BIS do it then there is no momentum loss from initial release as folk want have to wait for something decent from the comunity

Edited May 9, 2012 by Pathetic_Berserker

[twisted 128]

Thing is, simple and dirty doesn't cut it anymore. . Theres some really high production standards out there, with a lot of thought being put in to the structure and flow of the mission.

[jblackrupert 14]

That sounds like a free money feed :p . Honestly, making a simple and dirty mission isn't that hard in ARMA. Can't the PvP scene just do it themselves?

They did but the lack of PVP filter in the browser means the servers get buried under the mass amount of COOP servers, particularly Domination.

A large push for getting AAS numbers up was pretty successfull with a Maps/missions and addons pack which was released on several sites but Operation Arrowhead arrived and everyone ditched it.

Several popular PVP servers died because the admins got busy with real life things.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Thing is, simple and dirty doesn't cut it anymore. . Theres some really high production standards out there, with a lot of thought being put in to the structure and flow of the mission.

Your right,and another reason why BIS should be providing out of the box, instead of leaving it up to the community to pull it off. There is the talent within the community to do it, but why would people believe it if they cant see it out of the box.

[Demazi99 1]

Just created an account for this replay yay, bye goodol' times of ghost member.

I think one of the most important points is, no matter if ARMA 3 has the base PVP missions on the go, what we have to think is:

Question: If, IF ARMA 3 comes with good pvp missions out of the pack, suitable for CQC and normal combat, is this the only condition to make a COD or BF player to come and play this game?

My answer would be no. It doesn't matter if you make the most simple map in the most easy mode ever done for this game, a lot of people wouldn't enjoy it. Because this game is a lot more than the map/mission. It is about the whole gameplay. ARMA doesn't have a perfect movement where you can just stop and go wherever you want. You cannot mostly just spray across 200m and hit all the targets. You can't just run the all map and kill the entire enemy team. No matter what, the patience, the teamwork, the tactics, all of which has a relatively big learning curve are what makes this game what it is. It has a huge difference from these two, at the point it can't be even compared or put into competition.

What may happen then? It's not like no player can enjoy both things. I do. Somes players will wake up most of the day, play BLOPS 2, but somedays will enjoy a one and a half hour mission while talking with friends. Is is still a somewhat small playerbase on BF and even smaller for COD, but it exists. And if we give the OPPORTUNITY for them to have a online experience against other live players in the ARMA core gameplay, this could drag a whole lot of new players for the coop missions aswell.

What most people may fear here, is that developers start seeing that making an easy game and lowering the treshold completely for usual arcade gamers will be better financially, and will totally forget their origin, their base. This happened to Battlefield. Nowadays, the core playerbase is largely upset to devs, although the game is a financial sucess, and no one would like this to happen for ARMA series, as it doesn't has to.

And a non-related note, guys, PVP missions don't have to necessarily be CQC.

[james2464 176]

Well E3 is 4 weeks away so it should be very interesting to see what BIS reveal to us.

[Steakslim 1]

can't wait to see what they have by then

[batto 17]

If, IF ARMA 3 comes with good pvp missions out of the pack, suitable for CQC and normal combat, is this the only condition to make a COD or BF player to come and play this game?

My answer would be no. It doesn't matter if you make the most simple map in the most easy mode ever done for this game, a lot of people wouldn't enjoy it. Because this game is a lot more than the map/mission. It is about the whole gameplay.

I think you exaggerate. Typical large-scale ARMA missions has totally different gameplay than any other game, no doubt. But you control your avatar basically same as you do other FPS shooters (+ nice improvements) and that's all that matters for small and/or CQB games.

ARMA doesn't have a perfect movement where you can just stop and go wherever you want.

This problem is already solved, isn't it?

You cannot mostly just spray across 200m and hit all the targets.

That's good, it'll make game more exciting. I can hear newcomers saying "Wow, the bullets actually fly and are affected by gravity? Awesome!!" =)

You can't just run the all map and kill the entire enemy team.

If teamwork is used and teams are balanced than I agree. But why not try it just for fun if you play against noobs? You don't have to travel for 10 minutes if you get owned.

No matter what, the patience, the teamwork, the tactics, all of which has a relatively big learning curve are what makes this game what it is.

I don't think that patience, teamwork and tactics are unique to ARMA. Properties of ARMA just make tactics different because for example rifles aren't automatic railguns and you get down after 1 bullet. Again, take a look at some Counter-Strike tournaments (here is an

if you're lazy to search).

[crazyjake56 10]

That's good, it'll make game more exciting. I can hear newcomers saying "Wow, the bullets actually fly and are affected by gravity? Awesome!!" =)

.

That's a really big assumption.

[whiskeytango 11]

That's a really big assumption.

Just to play devils advocate, I'm pretty sure BF3 has 'bullet drop.' =)