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LockDOwn

Will Bohemia finally improve ARMA's PVP to attract New Players?

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That is a really bad attitude to have towards potential buyers. If you don't cater to people who haven't played before, the only possibilities are that you will lose customers of keep the same amount.

Is it not good to expand the customer base?

Also, many of my friends want a realistic military simulator and have not heard of the ArmA series. You might not know, but this game isn't as well known as say, Doom and Tetris. You can't expect all of your potential customers to know of your product.

This.

I think we'd be surprised how many people haven't heard of Arma and yet would love to play it. We all know Arma's potential customer base is probably like 100 times its current size.

After demonstrating just what can be done with this game (for example, DayZ), people will buy it. If there was enough coverage of the comprehensive vehicle simulation, we'd probably win the audiences of those cheap "[VEHICLE NAME] Simulator" games. And believe me, there is a strangely large audience for them.

Seriously, I think there are thousands of people out there who would jizz their pants if they only discovered this hidden gem.

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are you just afraid that A3 will have more challenging default pvp missions then one can play in BF/CoD?

Afraid? Haha. Opposite! I've only played CoD:MW MP for a while (less than 1 month). Point of this thread is why & how to compete with them. I would not compare gameplay experience. I took more challenging default PvP as a a sure thing without mentioning it. It's because in CoD/BF3 automatic weapons work like lasers. You just hold mouse, follow the other guy and the combat is over. In A2 full auto is totally different which makes firefights longer which looks, sounds and feels more cool from newbie POV (me).

Imagine BIS devs will make some brand new/unique missions that do make use of A3 features, the terrain and don't limit players. Just something that will make people say "A3 is different but it's awesome!"

They could also say "A3 is different, awesome and better than BF3, CoD, Counter-Strike, R6, ...". Also a lot of people enjoy PvP more than missions vs AI.

Funny one could also claim "More people" = more idiots who run'n'gun, TK, cheat, satchel base/own stuff, instant action/achievements... overall more annoyance and troubles of getting a match done on public servers. Guess why so many prefer to play on locked servers?

You seem to think that you're on higher level than normal people. Then play on locked server, be admin, ... One can already cheat A2. In fact there are cheaters on some domination servers. Also I meet idiots killing mates in base when no admin is around often. You're basically saying that BIS should limit sales and/or target audience so you'll have good players on public servers. More accessible interface for voting (=> kicking) will do the job.

And don't forget there is also Counter-Strike crowd and dead Rainbow 6.

Edited by batto

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Seriously, I think there are thousands of people out there who would jizz their pants if they only discovered this hidden gem.

Hidden? Maybe people who live in caves haven't heard of Arma. Fact is that the majority of gamers who play first person shooters have heard of Arma but prefer COD/BF3 style gameplay. Arma is a niche product aimed at a niche market.

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Guys, please don't feed the trolls.

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Aren't those going to be ported by the community a week or two after release in any case?
I´m all for a well designed, tight PVP shipped with the game by default. People will want to jump into MP. They shouldn´t wait a month or two for the community to fill the gaps. Plus, a -large- part of the initial buyers will not know about the community sites, and if the default game doesn´t have the content to make them stick around, chances are they´ll never discover them.

this is exacly my point. lots of people who tried arma found it boring because thewre was no *kewl* mp there by default.

2 my friends tried arma 1 "assault on some town" mp vanilla mission and got extremely frustrated.

why not to add wide known missions like domi, insurgency, cti, evo and stuff here by default?

i'm not talking only about pve.

arma got only 2 problems that don't let it become absolutely great - learning curve and multiplayer.

just make missions in way that you find out features bit by bit in addition to stuff like OA training grounds.

and add wide known community missions. just adapt/edit/whatever it and add to vanilla, instead of being stubborn for no reason.

Edited by n7snk

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A more accessible interface for voting (=> kicking) won't do the job or even replace a good admin. I cross my fingers that BIS will make some awesome mp missions and include some userfriendly tools/features so people can enjoy even more custom missions. Where would be BIS today if they didn't made this great + open sandbox? I think we can agree that A3 should be awesome for many who like to experience a little more milgame/milsim than most other/mainstream shooters have. Now how could a good A3 mission for beginners look like and how he can advance without beeing forced to shoot/kill XXX people or to like too strict character/class limitations? How many people would enjoy playing matches/missions without respawn?

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I don't know that emulating CoD or BF will get much more business. As has already been discussed, any kind of mission can be made in ArmA, so I guess what the OP is asking for are default out-of-the-box missions that payers will receive simply by installing. I've always said ArmA should come with many different missions, sorted into broad genres maybe.

I guess the most helpful thing BIS could do in promoting PvP gameplay would be to invent another faction, one that is balanced with the main Blufor faction. Purely so that balanced PvP can be achieved immediately. I don't suppose this will happen, and in truth I don't really believe it's necessary. Balanced PvP already exists, in CoD and BF. Seriously, it's what those games DO, ArmA does.... other things. It does things other games do NOT do, and THAT will be the reason people will buy it. Not because it can do what CoD/BF do, but because it can do what they cannot do. As a bonus, ArmA can be wrangled to do what CoD/BF can do due to its flexibility.

But in any case, I don't believe balance is what attracts CoD/BF players in any case. Most people I believe view games as just that - games. They wish to buy it, play it, join a game online. As simple as that. When you buy a CoD/BF game, you're getting that, even more so with consoles. You're getting a minimum standard of gaming guaranteed, no need to worry about performance or addons etc. If ArmA can have this kind of ease of use, that would help. Obviously the ArmA online game browser needs some work, we discuss this issue elsewhere here RE addons & the management of. But some browser functionality could do with some work, the ability to have the browser simply display the vanilla servers only. In fact have that as the initial default filter, anyone who's looking for more will surely figure out a well-designed browser UI to enable a wider server search. In the same way that a player who's looking for more will find the editor & play around with that.

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I don't know that emulating CoD or BF will get much more business. As has already been discussed, any kind of mission can be made in ArmA, so I guess what the OP is asking for are default out-of-the-box missions that payers will receive simply by installing. I've always said ArmA should come with many different missions, sorted into broad genres maybe.

I guess the most helpful thing BIS could do in promoting PvP gameplay would be to invent another faction, one that is balanced with the main Blufor faction. Purely so that balanced PvP can be achieved immediately. I don't suppose this will happen, and in truth I don't really believe it's necessary. Balanced PvP already exists, in CoD and BF. Seriously, it's what those games DO, ArmA does.... other things. It does things other games do NOT do, and THAT will be the reason people will buy it. Not because it can do what CoD/BF do, but because it can do what they cannot do. As a bonus, ArmA can be wrangled to do what CoD/BF can do due to its flexibility.

But in any case, I don't believe balance is what attracts CoD/BF players in any case. Most people I believe view games as just that - games. They wish to buy it, play it, join a game online. As simple as that. When you buy a CoD/BF game, you're getting that, even more so with consoles. You're getting a minimum standard of gaming guaranteed, no need to worry about performance or addons etc. If ArmA can have this kind of ease of use, that would help. Obviously the ArmA online game browser needs some work, we discuss this issue elsewhere here RE addons & the management of. But some browser functionality could do with some work, the ability to have the browser simply display the vanilla servers only. In fact have that as the initial default filter, anyone who's looking for more will surely figure out a well-designed browser UI to enable a wider server search. In the same way that a player who's looking for more will find the editor & play around with that.

DMarkwick you summed it up perfectly, there is really nothing I can add to this.

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why not to add wide known missions like domi, insurgency, cti, evo and stuff here by default?

Because QAing all of those would be a nightmare, and like I said, they'll be made by the community in any case at which point the server browser will be overflowing with them. If your only ambition in MP is to press "host new game" without even checking the server browser, it's hardly anyone else's fault that you missed the incredibly popular and ubiquitous community-made missions.

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I've seen many posts of people tired of the BF\COD and actually trying to get into Arma for a more serious game (mainly after BF3's launch, somehow it looks like more COD than BF), but once they can´t figure out what is happening they just drop it. Can you imagine someone that never played something in the series geting into a Domination server (as is one of the most popular missions)? Hell, I've been here since OFP and struggled to understand what was going on on there, even after reading the briefings, thing that most players don´t do.

The addition of a COD\BF style game mode (Conquest and Search&Destroy maybe? With an easy to navigate and clear interface; I said game mode, not gameplay style) right from the start would only benefit the newcomers, they would have something to related to, making the transition from one game to another easier. Once they are settled with gameplay mechanics they would start to explore the "real" ARMA world.

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I've seen many posts of people tired of the BF\COD and actually trying to get into Arma for a more serious game (mainly after BF3's launch, somehow it looks like more COD than BF), but once they can´t figure out what is happening they just drop it. Can you imagine someone that never played something in the series geting into a Domination server (as is one of the most popular missions)? Hell, I've been here since OFP and struggled to understand what was going on on there, even after reading the briefings, thing that most players don´t do.

The addition of a COD\BF style game mode (Conquest and Search&Destroy maybe? With an easy to navigate and clear interface; I said game mode, not gameplay style) right from the start would only benefit the newcomers, they would have something to related to, making the transition from one game to another easier. Once they are settled with gameplay mechanics they would start to explore the "real" ARMA world.

Exactly this ^

In addition to what Smurf was saying, one of the keys to successful mission design is a clear and concise explanation of the game mode, how you are to complete the objective, and other important information.

Players don't want to read a book before joining a game just to be able to enjoy it. On the flip side, people don't want to be dumped into a mission without having a clue how to play the mission successfully.

This is one of the reasons the multiplayer games in shooters such as Battlefield and UT are successful.

Edited by djfluffwug

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Aren't those going to be ported by the community a week or two after release in any case?

At least for Domina I can say that it won't get ported and that I won't hand out any permission to do so :)

Xeno

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At least for Domina I can say that it won't get ported and that I won't hand out any permission to do so :)

Xeno

It'll still probably get ripped off and called "Retribution" or "Absolution" or some such shit. :bounce3:

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It'll still probably get ripped off and called "Retribution" or "Absolution" or some such shit. :bounce3:

That would be a bad idea :cool:

Xeno

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This.

I think we'd be surprised how many people haven't heard of Arma and yet would love to play it. We all know Arma's potential customer base is probably like 100 times its current size.

After demonstrating just what can be done with this game (for example, DayZ), people will buy it. If there was enough coverage of the comprehensive vehicle simulation, we'd probably win the audiences of those cheap "[VEHICLE NAME] Simulator" games. And believe me, there is a strangely large audience for them.

Seriously, I think there are thousands of people out there who would jizz their pants if they only discovered this hidden gem.

exactly this!

What we need is to spread some Gameplayvideos around. thats the best method to show off the possibilieites the gameplay and everything. I mean ArmA II already is exactly what all these BF players wanted BF to be! Yet they couldnt wouldnt do sth. as this.. BIS has too much knowledge over the years how to make such a big War simulation. I bet no other Studio could something similar in just 3 or 4 years. It is too difficult.

And lets face it, most people would play ArmA already if they would _know_ how good it is. The problem lies in how to show them what it is all about. They get lost when joining a MP game and lose their will to learn. We need good gameplay, or even playermade Tutorial Videos! I for myself try to catch the beatuiful side and the gameplayrealism side in Videos I push along some Forums I am on.

And there are people who still did not really know about his gem, or maybe read a short article from release where arma was mentioned as buggy blabla... I hate this press.. they should revisite such a game like ArmA every 6 Months or so...

We need some easy precise Point blank Good tutorial Videos presenting the core game. The core roles, the core "What the heck am I supposed to do here?" stuff :)

Its all about the presentaiotn. Game Lust comes afterwards.. and experience much far afterwards after hundreds of hours.. The presentation and the Immersion is the stuff that glues all this together for newbies and what doesnt let them drop the game too fast before they learned how it works and what it is capable of.

Dragon thinks that all people browse the net for games, and then leanrning exactly about it. Thats wrong most people play stuff in their free time, just to relax. They dont think that there is sth. like this out there... And they wont know by not trying it out for some hours.

Many people dont know yet they want to play realistic warsims ;) Because of this they arent searching for it!

Edited by tremanarch

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Tell us what will cost BIS os us please. It was said many times in this thread that PvP scene should be just addition to ARMA.

besides some proper out of the box PvP missions, what else do you mean by PvP scene. Something that is done specificity for Pvp and not Pve? (a proper game browser does NOT count)...

I suggest you read this thread from beginning and then point us to sinner who wanted ARMA to copy BF/MW (don't worry, we'll send ninjas ASAP).

Have you read the damn title?

Is PR mislim? Is Domination with insta parachute jumps and respawns milsim? Is 3rd person view milsim? Where's the boundary? As was said many times we still want pure ARMA without crippling realism.

neither PR, not Domination are developed by BIS. Any sort of credits (good or bad) should be taken by the author(s).

If I press 'I' in A2 Domination I see that vehicle kills give you more score points. Kill bonuses are already there ;-).

You can turn that off if you want to, it is a server side setting. You can't do the same for the above mentioned shooters.

Remember; it's PvP game. It's for fun. You can continue playing your boring COOPs and ignore it. (I expect ninjas now).

Getting credit for kills which could then be spent on equipment is a good way to reward players & balance game in some PvP modes.

Just because you have an opinion (about pvp vs pve) doesn't make you right, nor wrong. For you Pve might be boring, for someone else, playing the same mission over and over again with a lot of restrictions might be just as bad. I can't shit down on your preferences no matter how much i would want it, so you should do the same, and keep your own turd for yourself then.

Point of this thread is why & how to compete with them.

If you want a product better than previous, a good one, you need to set your standards high. Comparing an already good product with an inferior one (COD/BF_n) will not really get you anywhere.

Besides, i don't really get why would you want to compete with it? Just because every button pusher out there plays it on their sofas? It doesn't mean COD/BF type of PvP is the only one available out there.

I do understand that you might wanna play quick actioned game in RV engine (which is already possible, not perfect though). Just saying: maybe this game is not what you are looking for after all...?

And don't forget there is also Counter-Strike crowd and dead Rainbow 6.

As if i give a flying duck about CS crowd. CS is still a action oriented game.

R6 crowd (the original one that is) has spread between other games out there long time ago...

That would be a bad idea :cool:

Xeno

:P

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Is the OP even aware of what he's suggesting?

Consider this-

Pre-BF3 players used to puke at the thought of COD players being in their game.

BF3 had to be dumbed-down beyond belief to compete with COD, i could expand but the list is huge.

Additional game modes "infantry only" etc don't work because core gameplay mechanics have to be changed to accommodate the muppets, eg, ARMA would no longer be ARMA as you know it.

ARMA 3 will attract a bigger audience even if it remains strictly a SIM because its pretty unique as shooters go and there are many BF vets who will come over regardless.

If BI "sells out" then its game over and another blow to PC gaming and the games industry in general, believe it.

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besides some proper out of the box PvP missions, what else do you mean by PvP scene. Something that is done specificity for Pvp and not Pve? (a proper game browser does NOT count)...

Official servers and wide variety of PvP games. That's all.

Have you read the damn title?

Title says "compete" not "copy".

You can turn that off if you want to, it is a server side setting. You can't do the same for the above mentioned shooters.

Well, those mentioned shooters are money sucking pieces of crap so I don't care =).

Just because you have an opinion (about pvp vs pve) doesn't make you right, nor wrong. For you Pve might be boring, for someone else, playing the same mission over and over again with a lot of restrictions might be just as bad. I can't shit down on your preferences no matter how much i would want it, so you should do the same, and keep your own turd for yourself then.

I received turd first. I sent mine in return. I was also joking a little bit.

Besides, i don't really get why would you want to compete with it? Just because every button pusher out there plays it on their sofas? It doesn't mean COD/BF type of PvP is the only one available out there.

I do understand that you might wanna play quick actioned game in RV engine (which is already possible, not perfect though). Just saying: maybe this game is not what you are looking for after all...?

I want variety of military PvP games with a lot of people. ARMA looks like it could do it best.

As if i give a flying duck about CS crowd. CS is still a action oriented game.

It's old simple team focused CQB PvP game. That's why it's "action oriented".

R6 crowd (the original one that is) has spread between other games out there long time ago...

Which ones please? Just curious.

You put a lot of my sentences out of context...

@Reuben5150: read the thread from beginning to the end first please

Edited by batto

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Official servers and wide variety of PvP games. That's all.

If by official you mean BIS hosted, i'm sorry to burst your bubble but will surely NOT happen.

Title says "compete" not "copy".

And please tell me, how did all the other games that tried to compete do that? By being innovative, or by copy-paste?

Well, those mentioned shooters are money sucking pieces of crap so I don't care =).

Still, the thread points to those games, and not any other.

Please tell me, what other PvP game would you like to compare Arma with? (maybe not the current situation, but a perfect one from your point of view).

I want variety of military PvP games with a lot of people. ARMA looks like it could do it best.

aren't there other military games out there that you can play with a lot of ppl? 64ppl would most likely suffice i guess (even if you push towards 128 in arma).

It's old simple team focused CQB PvP game. That's why it's "action oriented".

doesn't matter if it's old or new i suppose.

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There's so much petty bickering here that I think even trying to add anything will be ignored -- in fact I see that's already the case...

:(

Edited by Hoak

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all the engineering, scale sandbox sophistication and technology will still run under and next to anything that's offered that might replicate features and design that are more approachable for a wider audience...

You guys calling for COD/BF3 style gameplay don't give two shit's about a wider audience, that's just a lame excuse, you want COD/BF3 style gameplay for yourselves. Bohemia Interactive know what they are doing, if they were interested in targeting a wider audience they would develop dumbed down console games.

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^^ Oh FFS, I don't think I've seen a dumber opposing statment in ages

@Dragonshot you need to go back and read the entire thread or get the f' off the wagon.

Edited by Pathetic_Berserker

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@Dragonshot you need to go back and read the entire thread

Unlike yourself I read post #159

Stop fantasizing and accept reality...

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I don't understand. Are there not enough fragfest button mashing games yet?

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