AI Improvement

[ArtyomKalashnikov 1]

like what ?

"butterfilies ? hey guys, look what i found ?!! hold shooting for a little and enjoy beauty of nature!" © ? :)

or just something like "bump. its tree. feel hard. and hurts about 0.4 hp's each hit time im hit it by head" AI-routine/FSM ? :)

You obviously don't understand what I mean. AI detection through grass was very bad in the last game. AI can see you prone in tall grass as if it wasn't there, if somehow they can upgrade the AI so that they could react more naturally like humans toward it. The AI shouldn't see you when you are technically invisible to the naked eye. They done this in Far Cry 2 they can definitely do this in arma 3. Imagine hiding behind a bush in arma 2, the AI in arma 2 would still see you behind the bush even though you are 100% concealable. It's as if that bush didn't even exist. Now you see what I mean?

[maturin 12]

Get with the program, everyone. Grass blocks AI vision now. Go lie down on the Krasnostav airfield if you don't believe me. It's an incomplete system but there's been real progress.

the AI in arma 2 would still see you behind the bush even though you are 100% concealable. It's as if that bush didn't even exist. Now you see what I mean?

This is bullshit. 100% demonstrably wrong. Bushes block AI vision as perfectly as any game you'll find. Assuming you actually stay behind the bulk of the model and don't expect a few leaves to conceal the head that's poking out.

[naizarak 4]

have to agree with this - foliage concealment works pretty well(at least for me). i haven't encountered too many x-ray equipped AI.

[Ninja_Prime 10]

Its been said that all the buildings in ARMA3 will all be accessible and fully destructible, this opens up a whole new set of tactics and strategies available to the player. Will it mean that a new set of commands will be available to the player for breaching and room entry? this is something I am looking forward to, if it can get anywhere as close to the entry system of S.W.A.T 4, then I will be a happy person. I also hope that BI incorporate some of the AI mods that the community has developed, such as ASR_AI. I was wondering if the cover system has been modified or changed in any way too. The reason I ask is that I have played Rainbow Six Vegas 2 a lot and I think that has one of the best cover system to-date.

Will the new engine allow the player to hide in the shadows too or is this already available in ARMA2?. In my experience so far with ARMA2 I can hide in the long grass and not get spotted, I haven't encountered any x-ray vision tangos yet.

I am not sure if it's a mod I am running but the AI do attempt to flank you. I Will have to load a vanilla copy of ARMA2 and see what happens, but AI with realistic tactics would be great.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Ninja_Prime

[Madeon 6]

Its been said that all the buildings in ARMA3 will all be accessible and fully destructible, this opens up a whole new set of tactics and strategies available to the player.

Nothing new here, all the buildings in Operation Arrowhead are enterable and destructible.

[chortles 263]

Its been said that all the buildings in ARMA3 will all be accessible and fully destructible, this opens up a whole new set of tactics and strategies available to the player.

So... Destruction 2.0? I kid, I kid :lol:

Will it mean that a new set of commands will be available to the player for breaching and room entry? this is something I am looking forward to, if it can get anywhere as close to the entry system of S.W.A.T 4, then I will be a happy person. I also hope that BI incorporate some of the AI mods that the community has developed, such as ASR_AI. I was wondering if the cover system has been modified or changed in any way too. The reason I ask is that I have played Rainbow Six Vegas 2 a lot and I think that has one of the best cover system to-date.

If you're concerned with the player interaction with cover, then NO there's still no sticky cover like third-person shooters and a few first-person shooters such as R6V2 or Red Orchestra 2; instead your character can adjust their stance (Ctrl+WSAD) to better conform to or shoot around a cover, i.e. to duck (bend at the waist) while crouching, to sidestep and thus lean out further, or to go from prone to a supine semi-sitting "Last Stand" position (if a cover is low enough to conceal you when prone but also low enough that from "Last Stand" you can see, aim and shoot over it).

It appears that the action menu from ARMA 2 is back, albeit with your currently selected choice displayed under or in place of the crosshairs (i.e. when switching weapons), and I doubt that there are specific indoors commands like an entry mechanic, although a new "open and clear" command would be nice. Note though that R6V2's partner commanding was way more simplified and specific than what ARMA 3 allows for -- only two "behavior modes" (Assault or Infilitrate), automatically stacking up if told to move to the door (will ARMA 3 allow you to order them to move to the door itself but NOT stack up?), and when stacked up "open an clear" plus two behavior-specific entry methods (breach/frag for Assault, flash/smoke for Infiltrate), so three per behavior... plus it was still a linear corridor shooter where this entry mechanic was mainly used indoors.

I will say though I don't expect them, specific "stack-style" movement animations like what Ghost Recon: Future Soldier uses would be cool, i.e. if it's a garage door or vertical gate, one soldier pulling up the gate while another is ducking-from-crouch on his side and aiming his weapon through the opening.

(In one of the more amusing-for-all-the-wrong-reasons moments in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, which uses "move into position to breach" instead of "press X to breach", a breach and clear segment set in Pakistan required me to after getting into position then pilot a drone with UAV mode, switch it to UGV mode, then drive it down the stairs and activate its "people incapacitating" function, after which my guys would immediately breach and rappel down... problem was, moving into position to breach forced my character to switch back to his primary weapon... a bolt-action sniper rifle. Cue my having to repeat this segment multiple times from the move into position to breach because my character kept being KIA from missing a shot and having to operate the bolt during the "bullet time" when I'd brought along a PDW specifically expecting to use it for such a segment. :rolleyes: )

[wiZaK 0]

Really looking forward to this game.

[chortles 263]

Unless of course the only people you want to impress with a presentation are people who never played shooters - but that's way too carebear, BIS.

Didn't BIS's "focus group" solicit before Gamescom specifically call for focus testers with no ARMA (or possibly even shooter) experience?

Yeah I've noticed Buchta & other people taking way too many bullets with zero effects (like they had some invisible HP bar) but I hope that's just a lower difficulty. I mean we could see Buchta get shot 3 times and his soldier didn't even react. I almost thought that was a god mode.

On the other hand, in the last GameStar interview (7/7 "Infantry Fight") you have Jay Crowe's character got one-shotted at extremely close quarters (first shot from the player hit stone doorway, then he wasn't able to walk the subsequent rounds onto target), and I remember Jay saying during the support or night ops showcase that he was explicitly using a dev cheat to move the time up.

[Steakslim 1]

I think he used the "cheat" to change the time of the month to view the night under a different moon phase, to see the contrast between a full moon and no moon.

[Phantom Six 25]

... this is something I am looking forward to, if it can get anywhere as close to the entry system of S.W.A.T 4, then I will be a happy person. I also hope that BI incorporate some of the AI mods that the community has developed, such as ASR_AI. I was wondering if the cover system has been modified or changed in any way too. The reason I ask is that I have played Rainbow Six Vegas 2 a lot and I think that has one of the best cover system to-date.

...

I would really hate to see a Rainbow Six Vegas 2 cover style. That one is horrible and very hollywoodish. Back to the wall leaves you more vulnerable. It's better standing kind of like hip to wall because turning a 180 degrees take longer than turning 45-90 degrees to get into a room. Plus being able to use 3rd person to see over walls is very unrealistic and also very cheap. I do however like to close entry system of SWAT 4 but ARMA can just keep its advance complex command bar for the AI but the quick command bar can use some work.

[Ninja_Prime 10]

I would really hate to see a Rainbow Six Vegas 2 cover style. That one is horrible and very hollywoodish. Back to the wall leaves you more vulnerable. It's better standing kind of like hip to wall because turning a 180 degrees take longer than turning 45-90 degrees to get into a room. Plus being able to use 3rd person to see over walls is very unrealistic and also very cheap. I do however like to close entry system of SWAT 4 but ARMA can just keep its advance complex command bar for the AI but the quick command bar can use some work.

I tend to play ARMA in 3rd person most of the time, as I like the all round vision that view affords, I guess that's why I enjoyed the RSV2 cover system. I also like the spray and pray option it allows you to employ, it's great when playing with friends. I understand that ARMA is a soldier Sim and as such many people like it because of that and the realism you can achieve with it, but at the end of the day this is a game, and if the cover system was an added option then personally I would enjoy it more, purely because of my playing style. IMHO opinion RSV2 and ARMA are two completely different games, considering that RSV2 is a console port and was aimed at the masses, whereas ARMA was aimed at a certain captive audience!

I do agree with you about BI improving the quick command system, it was one of the things that used to put me off the game, I did like the OFP-DR interface, that was so much easier to use and also very "intuitive".

Don't get me wrong I love this game, and the fact that it has a comprehensive and well supported mission editor is a great bonus in my books.

I will be looking to upgrade my current PC soon to accommodate the new games and especially take advantage of the new features ARMA3 has to offer....roll on 2013

[krycek 349]

Ahh there was a time when not every game had a "press key go to cover" system.Since GoW everything went downhill,games maps turned into specifically designed closed areas with crates and objects for those cover systems.

[abdecken 1]

I really hope the AI use cover in a consistent way. With some modding in ARMA2 they do use cover more but they still run around in the open a lot, when any sane person would not leave cover during a fire fight.

[Thunderbird 0]

Basing myself of what I have seen lastly, there are still some aspects that need to get seriously improved in terms of AI in my judgement.

Honestly, the last footage released on Armaholic (GameStar.de - Developer walkthrough with Jay Crowe Part VII - Infantery) is easly redoable in vanilla ArmA II and you would get almost the same AI reactions.

Of course the game is not finished yet and there are still plenty of things to come up soon or later, but I would like to point out some parts:

The AI has to use more often the SUPPRESSIVE FIRE, which actually mean, when you are in a stressful situation, you tend to empty your mags by paying only a secondary attention to that aspect. Whereas in this video, we can still spot the so-unwanted 'Highly-accurate' 1-shot-1-kill AI situations.

The only one who was throwing bullets here and there was the player himself, not the AI, though.

This could be easly modified, it's just a matter of a few settings already predefined, even in ArmA II. And the community has already fixed this aspect through many Addons.

Regards,

TB

[maturin 12]

The AI in that video never had line of sight to the player, except at close range when any trained soldier would be shooting to kill.

We're fighting Iranians in ArmA 3, so people can finally get off the obsession with gunning down ten-year-olds in flip flops who have never held a gun before. They should be able to hit targets that players would hit. Suppressive fire is more a matter of machinegunners engaging fixed positions and soft cover, together with a rewriting of the detection code to make area targets more common at range.

[Thunderbird 0]

Theorically, MGs are the ones in charge of the so-called "suppressive fire", but things tend to be slightly different in real life. Especially in close range, excluding somevery well trained units (specOps, Elite elements...), any regular soldier would throw everything he has to "the supposed enemy position".

[rye1 21]

MG's and Grenadiers: MG to fix in place, most advantageous position. Grenadiers to hit the hard targets. Rifleman and TL can direct or move upon, Grenadier could break off with. Those kind of fireteam, up, section, etc, elements would be quite dramatic to see. I've only ever seen it a few times and I think it was more of a fluke.

I think ARMA does well with Grenadiers, they are pretty good. MG's can pin you down for buggery but when they move, that's where the problems begin. They have to move quick, no pauses or stopping randomly to lean or look towards your position, etc. They move infront of you or in a predictable nature, they don't set up on good firing lanes sometimes. But good none the less.

My thoughts anyhow.

[chortles 263]

Ahh there was a time when not every game had a "press key go to cover" system.Since GoW everything went downhill,games maps turned into specifically designed closed areas with crates and objects for those cover systems.

I don't view such a change as downhill -- those games just have a very specific idea of what they want to do, even in a nominally open-world game such as Rockstar's stuff*, and Jay Crowe explained why that won't work for ARMA 3 and thus why the stance adjustments are the better option. :D

* It was nice though to see a seeming change of pace in Sleeping Dogs where sometimes the enemy spawns would occur behind your character's "starting" facing, but this was usually after generally clearing out the starting facing of enemies anyway, so you merely had to get onto the other side of cover and repeat.

[Ninja_Prime 10]

If I understand correctly from other forums, is it true then that ArmA III will be incorporating mods from the community, such as ASR_AI. If this is the case then BI certainly listen to the requests and suggestions of their community, which is a refreshing thought!

The one thing that I have found lacking with ArmA II is CQC, this is one of the reasons I enjoyed the older RS and GoW series. I also like the tactical aspect, where you could plan the route of your unit, which was removed from future games. it would be great if ArmA III had something similar, as I find ArmA II frustrating when issuing command to unit AI.

[metalcraze 290]

Whereas in this video, we can still spot the so-unwanted 'Highly-accurate' 1-shot-1-kill AI situations.

Sounds like an improvement

In ArmA2 AI can't shoot

[^Th0mas^ 10]

If I understand correctly from other forums, is it true then that ArmA III will be incorporating mods from the community, such as ASR_AI. If this is the case then BI certainly listen to the requests and suggestions of their community, which is a refreshing thought!

The one thing that I have found lacking with ArmA II is CQC, this is one of the reasons I enjoyed the older RS and GoW series. I also like the tactical aspect, where you could plan the route of your unit, which was removed from future games. it would be great if ArmA III had something similar, as I find ArmA II frustrating when issuing command to unit AI.

No, I dont think BIS have said anything about doing this. I even made a thread about this in the ArmA 2 general category and they didnt care to answer. ASR_AI mod improves the AI a lot, and even add some new features BIS should have added long ago. I asked if they were going to port the AI from these mods, but no answer. They havent done it for ArmA 2, so I see no reason why they should in ArmA 3.

[instagoat 133]

The AI in Arma 3 will not be including any new features. Devs have said this on the forums, and I´ve talked to Gaia at Gamescom who also confirmed this to me. What they are instead doing is making what they have work properly first, before trying to slap on more stuff that may break even more parts than are already in wonky shape.

Many of the AI´s general problems right now are not for lack of features, but appear to be that way because of misconfiguration. There also seem to be problems with documentation, which means that current AI devs have to work trough the system to figure out how the AI works and why first.

There are a lot of things the AI would need to do, but for basics, they should do what they´re already programmed to do properly, rather than do stupid things all the time. Snipers pulling out pistols all the time, Units not going prone or quickly taking cover when fired upon, AI using grenades properly, etc.

[HKFlash 9]

The AI in Arma 3 will not be including any new features. Devs have said this on the forums, and I´ve talked to Gaia at Gamescom who also confirmed this to me. What they are instead doing is making what they have work properly first, before trying to slap on more stuff that may break even more parts than are already in wonky shape.

Many of the AI´s general problems right now are not for lack of features, but appear to be that way because of misconfiguration. There also seem to be problems with documentation, which means that current AI devs have to work trough the system to figure out how the AI works and why first.

There are a lot of things the AI would need to do, but for basics, they should do what they´re already programmed to do properly, rather than do stupid things all the time. Snipers pulling out pistols all the time, Units not going prone or quickly taking cover when fired upon, AI using grenades properly, etc.

Indeed this was discussed before Gamescom. The AI is good but makes stupid mistakes.

[maturin 12]

Sounds like an improvement

In ArmA2 AI can't shoot

Almost everyone besides you says the opposite, and almost everyone (including you, I suspect), turned down the AI precision config to more realistic values. (By the way, I once shared your opinion before I realized that ACE had somehow glitched out my profile settings.)

What we should say is this:

The AI can be made crack-shots with the proper settings, generally speaking. They are however incompetent when it comes to strafing targets, targets with elevation differences, targets at extreme range when using heavy weapons, and targets running in and out of concealment.

But the AI are absolutely, terrifyingly, preternaturally good at hitting aircraft, far beyond the abilities of any human born.

The AI in Arma 3 will not be including any new features. Devs have said this on the forums, and I´ve talked to Gaia at Gamescom who also confirmed this to me. What they are instead doing is making what they have work properly first, before trying to slap on more stuff that may break even more parts than are already in wonky shape.

This sounds scary but is actually great news. So long as them knowing how to drive, use standoff weapons and handle recoil don't count as new features.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

The AI in Arma 3 will not be including any new features. Devs have said this on the forums, and I´ve talked to Gaia at Gamescom who also confirmed this to me. What they are instead doing is making what they have work properly first, before trying to slap on more stuff that may break even more parts than are already in wonky shape.

Many of the AI´s general problems right now are not for lack of features, but appear to be that way because of misconfiguration. There also seem to be problems with documentation, which means that current AI devs have to work trough the system to figure out how the AI works and why first.

There are a lot of things the AI would need to do, but for basics, they should do what they´re already programmed to do properly, rather than do stupid things all the time. Snipers pulling out pistols all the time, Units not going prone or quickly taking cover when fired upon, AI using grenades properly, etc.

When I said new features I mean AI using smoke grenades when injures and stuff like that. For vanilla AI thats new, for ASR AI its old. It isnt a new feature, just never added.