Opinions On Unconventional Carry Systems?

[Crierd 24]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to get your opinion on unconventional weight carrying systems in ArmA 3 such as Donkeys, Mules, Llamas, Horses, and finally Sleds/Carts. Horses mentioned because they can carry more stuff, but they also are transport filling a dual role. I do fully realize this sounds stupid to some people, but in fact, these systems are used all the time in warfare. Their ability to carry lots of weight, and still be low maintenance is amazing. ArmA 3 being set in the future, some of you may say things like unmanned vehicles could do this, but they still require fuel, which in turn is far more heavy than in theory what an animal needs to continue carrying for instance, mortar rounds, satchel charges, ammo and anti tank launchers. The sled was mentioned because this also is a way to carry lots of weight and put less strain on the body. I'll provide a few examples below of how they're currently used. Not to mention, in reality, mechanized, unmanned things to carry stuff for you is far more expensive, if you were to take into account a little roleplay in your missions. It's still far more likely that ground troops, or a resistance type force would use mules rather than multi million dollar unmanned vehicles.

(start at 1:48)

Unknown Forces in what looks like Afghanistan.

IDF Using Llamas.

Unknown Soldier helping a Donkey.

News Article about the Bundeswehr using Donkeys.

Canadian Forces using Donkeys to haul supplies.

Horse hauling munitions.(mule maybe?)

Medical Sled (could be used for supplies also)

Rhodesian Scouts/Soldiers.

Another Rhodesian Soldier.

I just thought this could be really great, and possible with the new physics and what not coming into ArmA.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Crierd

[fraczek 4]

Leave that for ArmA 4: Sticks and Stones post-WWIII setting ;-)

More seriously, of course they get used, a donkey can go where a car cannot. Could that be doable with modding already? Attach-to comes to mind.

Edited March 1, 2012 by fraczek

[instagoat 133]

As someone who loves animals, I have to admit I´d be a rivetcounter in this regard.

If we get packing animals, the following should be modelled: Proper feeding and hydration, stamina and weight management, indirect commands and leading the animals, hoof care, dental care, grooming as well as a realistic emotional model (So the mule kicks you dead when you surprise it from behind).

That would be all.

( :3 )

[JdB 151]

There are remotely operated and semi-autonomous resupply vehicles being tested right now, I hope at least some will be fielded by 2035 ...

[[evo] dan 79]

This actually sounds like a pretty good idea, I don't know how hard it would be to implement though.

[-Coulum- 35]

sure, why not. It would be pretty easy wouldn't it? Just add inventory slots to animals, and allow people to put what they want in those slots.

But how would they be controlled. Would they just be grouped with a squad and automatically follow that squad around?

[fraczek 4]

But how would they be controlled.

Gotta use ACE-S mod of course - Advanced Carrot Extended on a Stick. Then you could have them just as a vehicle with driving position. Especially with the new vehicle driving cursor from latest betas, and hands-on-the-wheel animations in A3. Point the carrot on a stick where you want to go and the donkey follows...

[Crierd 24]

There are remotely operated and semi-autonomous resupply vehicles being tested right now, I hope at least some will be fielded by 2035 ...

Yeah, and have you researched the cost of those kinds of vehicles? Like I mentioned, not every unit would be able to have vehicles like that. If you saw them roaming around and decided to roleplay taking one back to your FOB and using it on a mission like those german soldiers did in that article I linked, I don't see anything wrong with it.

sure, why not. It would be pretty easy wouldn't it? Just add inventory slots to animals, and allow people to put what they want in those slots.

But how would they be controlled. Would they just be grouped with a squad and automatically follow that squad around?

I was thinking you take control of it through a scroll option like you can with AI, then just use the AI control system and it follows you. If you need to relinquish the control, you do so and someone else can take control of it. Shouldn't be too hard. It'd be like adding AI, an inventory system to the dog in the current ArmA 2.

[jakerod 254]

Unknown Soldier helping a Donkey.

That picture made my day. I'm all for it if I can carry a donkey on my back.

[blu3sman 11]

Yass, yass! Essential for guerrilla warfare.

I wonder why noone tried it in A2, doesn't seem to be hard to mod.

That photo with donkey is.. splendid:D

[pvt_ryan 10]

If we get packing animals, the following should be modelled: Proper feeding and hydration, stamina and weight management, indirect commands and leading the animals, hoof care, dental care, grooming as well as a realistic emotional model (So the mule kicks you dead when you surprise it from behind).

I would laugh, but all I can muster is a facepalm...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Cant' decide on Wojtek or Big Dog.

[instagoat 133]

I would laugh, but all I can muster is a facepalm...

Yeah, it -was- a pretty weak joke :(

But, in all seriousness, adding pack animals or remote controlled pack systems (like that robotic mule thingy.) would add another nifty set of tools to armas already immense repertoire. I am just unsure how to feasibly implement these, without invoking the "Horse Automaton" trope. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AutomatonHorses)

[JdB 151]

Yeah, and have you researched the cost of those kinds of vehicles? Like I mentioned, not every unit would be able to have vehicles like that. If you saw them roaming around and decided to roleplay taking one back to your FOB and using it on a mission like those german soldiers did in that article I linked, I don't see anything wrong with it.

It's now 2012, the game takes place in 2035, technology gets cheaper as it gets older, more common and improved upon. Also as both WW1 and WW2 have shown, military spending skyrockets during a world war along with the leaps in technology.

[[evo] dan 79]

Don't tempt me to make one for Arma 2!

Anyway, I would like to see animals and myabe vehicles for this. Have them controlled (like the other post said) by going up to them, and then using your action menu to tell it to follow and it would follow you, and then tell it to stop via the action menu as well.

[-Coulum- 35]

I think this would be a really neat addition. But Bi would have to make it so that the animal counted as low priority target to enemy ai.

[rye1 22]

LOL at the one carrying the donkey. It looks so chilled out.

Australian Special Air Service Soldier with Donkeys:

To the author of the thread, you should check out FM3-05.213, "Special Forces Use of Pack Animals".

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57559541/US-Army-Special-Forces-Use-of-Pack-Animals-2004-FM-3-05

"Commanders use military pack animal operations when the AOrestricts normal methods of transport or resupply. Animal transport systemscan greatly increase mission success when hostile elements and conditionsrequire the movement of combat troops and equipment by foot."

[roy86 367]

An interesting method by Boston Dynamics to make a horse like robot that can carry heavy loads through most terrrains

Edited March 2, 2012 by roy86

[NoRailgunner 0]

How much work and tuning have to be done for an proper animal transportation (incl. animations) and how much for an vehicle (incl. remote control) system?

[mr burns 132]

Not the most far fetched idea, thinking that VBS1 already had pack donkeys.

+´ed

[Tonci87 163]

Gotta use ACE-S mod of course - Advanced Carrot Extended on a Stick. Then you could have them just as a vehicle with driving position. Especially with the new vehicle driving cursor from latest betas, and hands-on-the-wheel animations in A3. Point the carrot on a stick where you want to go and the donkey follows...

LOL! Great Idea^^

[John1000 10]

As someone who loves animals, I have to admit I´d be a rivetcounter in this regard.

If we get packing animals, the following should be modelled: Proper feeding and hydration, stamina and weight management, indirect commands and leading the animals, hoof care, dental care, grooming as well as a realistic emotional model (So the mule kicks you dead when you surprise it from behind).

That would be all.

( :3 )

All will be within what we can do if someone writes an API to use the Kinect for Windows -then we can conceivably be seeing this

happening in Arma 3.

We could be able to do this if we use Kinect Sensor to move things and Haptic to feel the object .Maybe 40 bucks each.

Would be very cool--and very affordable.http://www.google.se/imgres?q=haptic+device&hl=sv&tbo=d&biw=1920&bih=912&tbm=isch&tbnid=PjrEUZ6KDdRoNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.brl.ac.uk/researchthemes/medicalrobotics/hapticsfortele-surgery.aspx&docid=AVRuSKGC-Cc3uM&imgurl=http://www.brl.ac.uk/images/kinaesthetic%252520feedback%2525201.gif&w=378&h=244&ei=DBEQUefmCab44QSezoGYCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:74,s:0,i:312&iact=rc&dur=292&sig=105385959824045344128&page=3&tbnh=180&tbnw=280&start=72&ndsp=41&tx=125&ty=110

[ProfTournesol 956]

I fail to see how this is related to the topic, and even to the post you quoted.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

they really need to release this game ... ideas are becoming more and more ... creative :P

[scrim 1]

Sounds like a cool thing to have. I mean, pack robots are definitely not around the corner, and I doubt they'll be much closer in 2035 either. And even if they will be, they're most likely not going to be as agile as pack animals, and cost very much. Seriously, missions in remote mountain/desert terrain would be awesome if you could transport cargo, wounded, or ride on donkeys/camels/similar animals.