Perfect accuracy when firing from the hip

[Beagle 684]

I noticed this a while back.

Well, what I noticed was the guns are way too accurate from the hip.

Firing at 200m from the hip I noticed that the standard rifle was always hitting at less that 2m difference from the centre of the screen.

Calculating that, that would mean that the gun would never sway more than 0.5 degrees from it's original position. That level of sway does not sound right.

I also tested while having a grenade explode in front of me but with similar results.

You cant fire from the hip in arma, and you can simply turn every single helper off to make the game even more difficult than reality is.

The tools are at hand, just use them. The difficuly in hitting something in ArmA starts wit moving...stationary (like in a gun range) its all easy, but it is also easy on the shooting range RL.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Beagle

[djfluffwug 10]

Sorry, shoulder firing. It seems too accurate.

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Calculated the angle between to shots at 200m to be about 37.6 minutes which seems very low.

[Laqueesha 474]

Try changing the "Floating Zone" settings slider in the options. It does wonders. ;)

[Beagle 684]

Sorry, shoulder firing. It seems too accurate.

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Calculated the angle between to shots at 200m to be about 37.6 minutes which seems very low.

Did you run 50m before shooting? Not..ttry and see the difference...and then try this, run 25m into enemy fire and get shot at, you start to shake even more...ArmA simulates stress...without its just like on a lazy sunday morning in Texas in a gun clubs shooting range for leisure time plinking. Im used to shoot 50mm groups with a pistol at 25 meters under that conditions. Edited November 17, 2011 by Beagle

[djfluffwug 10]

I don't mean the floating zone. I mean the actual sway of the gun.

[CyclonicTuna 87]

There are mods like ACE 2.0 that take care of this you know....

[djfluffwug 10]

Well I tried with a grenade exploding in front of me and I got similar results... Maybe having a grenade explode in front of you isn't stressful.

---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Yes I know that. A great fan of ACE2.

But I figured just some tweaking would help make the firefights more interesting.

It could be in a mod but I thought it would be nice to be in vanilla.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------

Okay so just did a test. Using the default OA Blufor rifleman, I placed him 250 metres away from a large brick wall on flat ground. I then sprinted to the 200 metre mark and fired 2 shots from my shoulder without zooming within 2 seconds.

I then ran to the concrete wall to find that the 2 impact marks were about 30cm apart. There was a 1 metre height difference (Approx.) but only a 30cm width between the two shots.

[Beagle 684]

Well I tried with a grenade exploding in front of me and I got similar results... Maybe having a grenade explode in front of you isn't stressful.

---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Yes I know that. A great fan of ACE2.

But I figured just some tweaking would help make the firefights more interesting.

It could be in a mod but I thought it would be nice to be in vanilla.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------

Okay so just did a test. Using the default OA Blufor rifleman, I placed him 250 metres away from a large brick wall on flat ground. I then sprinted to the 200 metre mark and fired 2 shots from my shoulder without zooming within 2 seconds.

I then ran to the concrete wall to find that the 2 impact marks were about 30cm apart. There was a 1 metre height difference (Approx.) but only a 30cm width between the two shots.

I don't see what is wrong with that. That's pretty normal for an halfway experience shooter, and I think that should involve trained soldiers having two shots 115cm apart from each other is not realy sniper grade precision shooting.

[djfluffwug 10]

From 250m, running 50 metres then being accurate at 30cm from shoulder with only 1 second between running and shooting?

I mean, I know they are good but I didn't know they are that good?

[Beagle 684]

From 250m, running 50 metres then being accurate at 30cm from shoulder with only 1 second between running and shooting?

I mean, I know they are good but I didn't know they are that good?

Did you run (2xW) or just jog?

Because I can't reproduce that in such an accurate manner in game.

WAIT: what particular rifle are we talkign about, because they all have different behaviour. The Ak-107 has a built in mechanical anti recoil system for example and is the most stable rifle while AK-47 is the worst.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Beagle

[djfluffwug 10]

I was doing the fastest running possible in the game.

Using the standard OA blufor soldier using the MK16 with a holo sight.

Strange, it must just be my PC. I can upload some screenshots if you want? I assume you can take my word though.

[Beagle 684]

I was doing the fastest running possible in the game.

Using the standard OA blufor soldier using the MK16 with a holo sight.

Strange, it must just be my PC. I can upload some screenshots if you want? I assume you can take my word though.

The MK16 is the second most stable and recoil free rifle in game...just try other ones like M4A1 or AK-74...fully differnt picture.

[djfluffwug 10]

Okay thanks for clearing that up!

I will give it a go in a second.

[Undeceived 392]

By the way:

It is not from the hip you fire when you are not using iron sights! It is firing from the shoulder.

Iron sights:

Weapon at shoulder (NOT at hip!):

But yes - I also don't like the enabled crosshair! ;)

[SandboxPlaya 10]

You guys make it look as if I was asking for help. Whether this is hip-firing or shoulder-firing isn't important here.

OP edited to clear some things up.

Edited November 17, 2011 by SandboxPlaya

[Daniel 0]

Problem?

Just kidding, but seriously, Arma 3 (and real life) is going to be filled with CQB sights and cantilever magnifying optics. So you're guaranteed a weapon that can fire accurately out to 300m and still clear buildings effectively. Then what?

If your concern is balancing in PvP, here's what you do. Give everyone M4s and AKs with ironsights. Treat any magnifying optics as marksman rifles and limit their availability*. That's a tried and tested method, makes for great gameplay and is easy to achieve.

*Anything from one per squad, one per side or none whatsoever.

[BobcatBob 10]

This is a spot on. ArmA animations clearly show the soldier is not firing from the hip but with his rifle shouldered. While I agree the accuracy is way too perfect (i am one of the players who _never_ use sights) and I can easily hit targets 600 m away with just a couple of bullets using M16A2 ingame, I don't think drastic changes should be applied. Rather perhaps bigger crosshair area minus the comma which serves at the moment as direct hit point.

Did you mean bollock?;)

+1! msg2shrt

[Brutus404 10]

The discussion about accurate hipfiring reminds me of my post in the wishlist & ideas thread. If I may quote myself:

While playing several FPSs lately, I noticed how rather unrealistic it is for the characters to always walk around with their weapon held up, even if it's a heavy machine weighing over 10 kilograms. ARMA 2 does offer you the possibility to lower your weapon, but I find it to be quite clumsy to use this in the middle of a firefight.

A less clumsy and more realistic way of weapon handling would be to:

- have the player by default have is weapon pointing down. By that I don't mean the relaxed stance that comes with lowering your weapon in ARMA 2. The weapon should still be shouldered. Moving around in this stance won't make your weapon clip to objects either.

- when the player presses the LMB (Left Mouse Button) from this stance, the weapon immediately fires to the centre of the players view. Picture this: you are walking down the street in an urban environment while scanning for threats using freelook. Suddenly you see an enemy in the second story window at your 10 o'clock. Now all you have to do to fire at him is pressing your LMB. Of course, firing in this manner with a M60 will take longer then with a MP5, since a M60 is a lot heavier.

- when the player presses the RMB, he will bring up his weapon and look through the (CQB-)sights of the weapon. This means all weapons should have CQB-sights of some sort. This doesn't have to be more then looking over your scope. Having your weapon up will drain your fatique, and of course: the heavier the weapon, the faster it will drain.

Note: all this only applies to the standing and crouching stance

So what are your thoughts about this? Do you think it will solve the problem of unbalanced hipfiring? (Obviously in my post I meant there wouldn't be a crosshair with your weapon down.)

[smookie 11]

@Brutus404

Your suggestion is very good. It's not on topic though. I dont think the crosshair is the real problem, it's rather its accuracy.

[metalcraze 290]

BIS won't change anything weapon-simulation-wise, relax.

Making not aiming through ironsights inaccurate = butchering the whole ballistics model and doing so makes zero sense. Weapon shoots in the exact same direction where it points.

Leave the silly spread to CoD and CS and play without crosshairs like it's meant to be played.

Crosshairs are nothing but a training feature since you don't have them in your eyes IRL as well.

[Minoza 11]

BIS won't change anything weapon-simulation-wise, relax.

Making not aiming through ironsights inaccurate = butchering the whole ballistics model and doing so makes zero sense. Weapon shoots in the exact same direction where it points.

Leave the silly spread to CoD and CS and play without crosshairs like it's meant to be played.

Crosshairs are nothing but a training feature since you don't have them in your eyes IRL as well.

Although I fully agree with you about turning cross off, I can't agree that you have only 2 senses IRL... (3 if we count touching keyboard...), you could say that virtual cross replaces the rest of the senses which would help you IRL + perception of depth.

[nodunit 397]

Sort of, we do have depth perception but lets face it none of us would go into a fight and openly fight someone by just blind firing.

And agree'd about the weapon spray and optics view, you can either be mostly sure you know where your bullet is going or you can be relatively uncertain, it's shouldered the whole time..afterall you don't mash your face against the butt or your eye against the optics unless you want to come out looking like an abuse victim.

[saltatormortis 12]

like Minoza said said the lack of most of our senses..

and we dont have the feeling like IRL over the handling of the weapon

maybe leave the crosshair inside but we have to weaken them

maybe we use only the outer markers of the arma crosshair and let them not be so tight if you are full of stamina

and jes it shouldn't be too accurate with the hip firering

Edited November 18, 2011 by SaltatorMortis

[nodunit 397]

You're firing..from your shoulder..you are not firing from the HIP. Take a rifle in real life and place it on your shoulder, do not look down the ironsights and pull the trigger. Then look down the iron sights with as little change to the target as you can and fire again. You will find that the accuracy remains relatively the same. Bullet spray is effected by recoil and such not by looking down your ironsights..you don't steady the gun with your face.

The crosshair suggestion however is good.

Edited November 18, 2011 by NodUnit

[CameronMcDonald 146]

You're firing..from your shoulder..you are not firing from the HIP. Take a rifle in real life and place it on your shoulder, do not look down the ironsights and pull the trigger. Then look down the iron sights with as little change to the target as you can and fire again. You will find that the accuracy remains relatively the same. Bullet spray is effected by recoil and such not by looking down your ironsights..you don't steady the gun with your face.

The crosshair suggestion however is good.

This. The weapon's accuracy should not change.