Thoughts on using enemy uniforms

[Cripsis 10]

Why do people who don't believe using enemy uniforms is a good idea care? They don't have to use them... The more cool features in a game the better.

It's only natural that the community will discuss in detail the pro's and con's of all key features that are new to the ARMA series, I think there is no harm in discussing something like this.

[Windexglow 10]

Why would people care if BI added a My Little Ponie's faction? It's optional after all.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Why would people care if BI added a My Little Ponie's faction? It's optional after all.

I let my kids play ArmA,(I set up missions minus guns and ammo) I sneakily hid the MLP video in the bin. Don't joke.

[rye1 21]

My Little Pony... strikes back!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Enemy uniform for a My Little Pony = Robot unicorn covered in sparkles

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess that BIS devs will find a way to sense bloody/perforated uniforms for AI. One workaround could be that the player is only able to use clean and undamaged uniforms. Walking too close to enemy AI could possibly reveal him too aswell as giving no or wrong answers, making wrong gestures... Maybe AI could be able to reveal player if he is walking too fast/slow or in the wrong direction? Just something more plausible than using a "magic cloak uniform".

[batto 17]

@NoRailgunner: A lot of good thoughts are in history. For example: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2031985&postcount=125. Sorry for spam.

[Beagle 684]

Guess that BIS devs will find a way to sense bloody/perforated uniforms for AI. One workaround could be that the player is only able to use clean and undamaged uniforms. Walking too close to enemy AI could possibly reveal him too aswell as giving no or wrong answers, making wrong gestures... Maybe AI could be able to reveal player if he is walking too fast/slow or in the wrong direction? Just something more plausible than using a "magic cloak uniform".

In other words, pretty much liek in Hitman...and the whole masquerade is spoiled as soon as a naked body is found.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Why would people care if BI added a My Little Ponie's faction? It's optional after all.

-brohoof-

Personally I don't really like the idea but thats just because I'm really bad at espionage in realistic games.

[JdB 151]

In other words, pretty much liek in Hitman...and the whole masquerade is spoiled as soon as a naked body is found.

I was thinking of Hitman 2 especially since imo it keeps getting dumbed down after part 2. Not getting too close to enemies, especially those of higher rank, wearing the right disguise also needing to make sure you aren't carrying the wrong weapon or attachment, and not looking at enemies directly either for more than a momentary glimpse.

[ShenArcanyx 10]

Hmm.

My 2 cents: I am not a fan of the changing uniforms mid-mission, except in very specific circumstances (say, limited to the civilian/guerilla faction only), or enabled via scripts placed on the dead bodies or units that can disguise as enemies.

One question:

has BI explained how they implemented this? Via Scripts called on the dead body/unit in question? Is it default to every unit? Is it a module?

I honestly would prefer it if the implementation was via scripts only or a module. If it was default to every unit (and availible for multiplayer), that might cause some issues.

[Maio 293]

Hmm.

My 2 cents: I am not a fan of the changing uniforms mid-mission, except in very specific circumstances (say, limited to the civilian/guerilla faction only), or enabled via scripts placed on the dead bodies or units that can disguise as enemies.

One question:

has BI explained how they implemented this? Via Scripts called on the dead body/unit in question? Is it default to every unit? Is it a module?

I honestly would prefer it if the implementation was via scripts only or a module. If it was default to every unit (and availible for multiplayer), that might cause some issues.

As of now, it looks like a built in feature and to be honest, I like it that way. What issues might it cause, besides players running around in mixed uniforms on public servers ?

[Beagle 684]

As of now, it looks like a built in feature and to be honest, I like it that way. What issues might it cause, besides players running around in mixed uniforms on public servers ?

That's a hughe issue...on some CTI servers with hefty TK-penalty a handfull of TKs will get you out of action basically. Right now the problem is only with snipers, because you cant tell friend from foe as the model is the same and the colours differ onyl slightly. No need to say that snipers get TK a lot in ArmA.

[onlyrazor 11]

Maybe they could implement code that allows admins to make killing disguised teammates not count towards the TK count the first time.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Beagle what about an A3 feature like working IR patch or small/portable IFF devices? Of course a sniper should not be seen and if this happens - one should not instantly know his name, adress, blood type and what he/she likes for dinner... Or would you like to see Wookies with red hairs are OPFOR and Wookies with blue hairs are BLUFOR? :D

[Beagle 684]

Beagle what about an A3 feature like working IR patch or small/portable IFF devices? Of course a sniper should not be seen and if this happens - one should not instantly know his name, adress, blood type and what he/she likes for dinner... Or would you like to see Wookies with red hairs are OPFOR and Wookies with blue hairs are BLUFOR? :D

The sniper problem was just to show what happens right now. There is a reason why uniforms, even when made with camoflage in mind, are made distinctive from the ones worn by an opponent in the area. IFF for Infantry right now works only in IR range...and shooting the Guy in the OPFOR uniform is the most natural thign to do. How often you you read this "Why did you TK me you moron, look map before shooting", from players driving around in a captured T-72 in ArmA... I see this happening on a regular base. You do not look at map when a t-72 approaches, you try to get good cover and allign MAAWS sight for a good shot.

[NoRailgunner 0]

If people don't communicate and report contacts such things happen. It is and it should stay hard to distinguish snipers from different factions.

Using enemy equipment/vehicles without any notice to own and friendly HQ/groups should be always dangerous along with a higher risk to get killed by friendly force. If some players can't or don't like to get killed by friendly troops they should learn to make themselves appear as friendly before the shooting starts.

IFF devices for vehicles are nothing new and in use. Actual developments are to make these devices smaller, portable and more userfriendly for soldiers. In A3 one could equip himself which such an IFF device and try to use it in vehicles. Of course it should not do magic, should be destroyable and possible to jam.

[dragon01 902]

Also, lack of it should allow the vehicle to pass by minor enemy patrols without being shot at. Right now, AI has a magic IFF detector (as does the player, via peripheral markers). Player should eventually get spotted if driving in a vehicle with large windows, open top or when inspected (or when acting really suspicious), but other than that, they should be able to pass as the enemy until they open fire on them (and in case of a 3-way battle, firing on another OPFOR faction shouldn't cause any problems).

[EDcase 87]

OK, here's a thought...

Should a friendly that is killed in an enemy vehicle count as a teamkill?

I'd say "no"

What about if they are in enemy uniform?

Perhaps this could be another config option...?

Edited December 5, 2011 by EDcase

[76 0]

Is this the 'Sims' or a simulator... In what situation would you wear an enemy

uniform??? nearly all of you insist on realism.....!? wtf

I can only imagine all plans have gone to shit with many team members dead

and its some sort of last ditched effort to escape/evade the enemy... something

like that.... that accounts for about.... 0.f'all% of all missions.

Its going to cause more problems (technically and in gameplay) than any benefit

it brings... I find this feature odd coming from BI.

IMO its a cool feature.... but very much NOT for games like ArmA.

/my 2 cents

[EDcase 87]

In what situation would you wear an enemy

uniform???

...infiltration...

If you don't like it then don't use it.

It could be very interesting for gameplay depending how its implemented with AI recognition etc.

[rye1 21]

in what situation would you... use your imagination dude, don't limit it due to the conventional mindset

[76 0]

in what situation would you... use your imagination dude, don't limit it due to the conventional mindset

I see its potential and for most shooters and its a f'king cool as idea... CoD,

BF and nearly any other game with sides and uniforms really.

I would imagine wearing enemy uniforms its extremely rare... and found it odd

that it would be a feature, especially with all the complexities people have

brought up in many earlier posts and as said 'realism'.

If this is a good idea then there is zero consistency, because if this happens

there should be plenty more features that should also be added

(dev-heaven!) many that you guys would/have scoff at but are no less

realistic than wearing an enemies uniform.

edit: I play PvP 99% of the time so I don't really mind either way, I'd love to

see lots more unrealistic features that can be toggled on/off but coop freaks

will have melt downs so it will never happen...... that's why I found this

feature... like I said before, odd.

Edited December 7, 2011 by 76

[Maio 293]

...

edit: I play PvP 99% of the time so I don't really mind either way, I'd love to

see lots more unrealistic features that can be toggled on/off but coop freaks

will have melt downs so it will never happen...... that's why I found this

feature... like I said before, odd.

Huh? Over what features would coop players freak out?

[Minoza 11]

Huh? Over what features would coop players freak out?

^^I'm actually curious about this one too.