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Thoughts on using enemy uniforms

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(This may already be implemented and just not shown yet)

From the demo vids something was bugging me about the ability to change into an enemy uniform and then be able to freely move among them.

Its just too easy and in real life it would work but for only a short time.

There should be a time limit being near an enemy AI where he/they will get suspicious of you, then realize you are enemy and attack. This would not happen if you just run/walk past them all. Only if you are near an AI for a certain amount of time.

Perhaps when the AI gets suspicious he can come to you to ask a question which you can't answer so he will recognize you as enemy and attack.

With conversation system perhaps you could have a multi choice answer which if you get wrong will trigger recognition.

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A more realistic take on the "snatching the enemy uniform" bout would be cool, even though difficult to implement from a gameplay perspective.

Players would need to be able to judge wether or not and how fast and by whom they´re being spotted, so they can plan their actions accordingly. Otherwise, snatching an enemy uniform would be a frust fest.

On the other hand, if it remains as it is right now, it´s gonna be too easy, even for sneak-haters like me.

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Yeah, I know what you mean about getting frustrating.

The timing should be linked to how many AI are near you and how close.

If just one AI and you walk past then he will not have time to get suspisious.

But if you stand next to one or in a group then you'll get attention within a minute or so.

In easy mode there could be a bar showing how safe you are.

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I'm more interested in your "friendly" status, how your own side views you. And further to this, if you can temporarily change your enemy status without actually changing sides (meaning your map info won't change among other things), can it be applied to other objects, such as vehicles?

It would make for some interesting behavioural addons if when stealing an enemy vehicle, your own side would (rightly IMO) identify it as a threat.

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Recall Ivan saying that there is the danger of being shot by frendlies when undercover.

I believe there may be other stuff going on with this feature that we haven't seen yet. And likewise I hope the end result dosn't make it too easy for a middle class white guy to party in the middle of a close nit Arab unit.

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The aspect of being shot by friendlies sounds tricky to implement, I hope it wont be like:

"Ok guys, I'm going to use an enemy uniform to infiltrate the area."

"Ok, cool!"

*Wears uniform in front of his squad members*

"2:Three.Target.That.Man.At.12.O'clock"

*Bang*

"3:Hes History."

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If you take the uniform of an enemy officer you should be able to order enemy units around. ;)

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The aspect of being shot by friendlies sounds tricky to implement, I hope it wont be like:

"Ok guys, I'm going to use an enemy uniform to infiltrate the area."

"Ok, cool!"

*Wears uniform in front of his squad members*

"2:Three.Target.That.Man.At.12.O'clock"

*Bang*

"3:Hes History."

That made me LOL :yay:

Anyways +1 for AI getting suspicious of you.

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Imho its a nice feature that need some restrictions like revealing through:

- the uniform: too bloody, wrong badge, wrong parts (wrong underwear if A3 has female interrogators/hot dominatrices)

- time

- wrong equipment (weapon, backpack etc)

- wrong call signs/passwords

- wrong behaviour eg walking or running away, using unusual signs+words....

- if he can't answer on "What color is the boathouse at Hereford?" :D

Guess it can be only well done by mission design/script (module?).

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Maybe some settings through scripting like...

Interval 90.

Chance 20.

...so every 1.5min theres 20% chance of your cover is blown or something like that.... i dunno :p

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I think it will be sweet, but also wonder how it will work.

Race plays a huge factor in this, unfortunately.

With the supposed opfor being Iranians, it will look foolish to see a white/black guy running around in an Iranian's uniform unbenounced to the rest of Opfor.

The headgear/customization may fix this. A baclava could be useful, but also at the time time you still have exposed skin.

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Race plays a huge factor in this, unfortunately.

Why unfortunately? I think this could play out very well; you just need to give a homogeneity factor to each faction (plus a prevalent race or even a pool of races). Say the US-faction has a low homogeneity factor of 0.3, so you wouldn't raise much attention if you'd sneak into this faction as non-caucasian. On the otherhand there could be a Takiban-faction with a high homogeneity factor of 0.9 and you sneak in there without beeing the prevalent race, you'd raise attention much quicker.

Making factions different from each other (also in details) seems to be more interesting anyway, at least to me.

But yeah, I hope enough care get's taken, while this get's implemented. While this sounds really fun, it also seems to be rather tricky and could easily backfire... we'll see :)

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relating to changing uniforms, let us please be able to toggle it with a function such as unit allowUniformChanging boolean

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Why unfortunately? I think this could play out very well; you just need to give a homogeneity factor to each faction (plus a prevalent race or even a pool of races). Say the US-faction has a low homogeneity factor of 0.3, so you wouldn't raise much attention if you'd sneak into this faction as non-caucasian. On the otherhand there could be a Takiban-faction with a high homogeneity factor of 0.9 and you sneak in there without beeing the prevalent race, you'd raise attention much quicker.

Making factions different from each other (also in details) seems to be more interesting anyway, at least to me.

But yeah, I hope enough care get's taken, while this get's implemented. While this sounds really fun, it also seems to be rather tricky and could easily backfire... we'll see :)

This would be neat. The whole undercover thing offers a boatload of possibillities, all of which would be quite fascinating to explore.

I wonder, though, how much of it the devs will be able to implement in the relatively short time left until next year. There´s a whole game to be made, and unfortunately, small yet complex features (like this looks to be) will end up under the bus :/

Still, interested to see what BI do with this. From what we´ve seen so far, though, it unfortunately seems to be quite simplicistic.

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Why so much blood and holes on your uniform, mate?

Well, I hope that there will be some ingame objects representing a fold uniform. Or at least some locker we could attach an action to. :)

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I don't know if this has been suggested but in the original Mercenaries, when you were disguised as a different faction, normal grunts couldn't spot the difference but officers would notice you.

Perhaps they could do something based on rank? Then it would also make user made missions more interesting.

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It seems way too easy at the moment. In addition to the good points already addressed by others, I feel like more than a couple of things should be implemented for the sake of realism:

1. Differences in language. The enemy should ask you questions and if you, the player, doesn't pick a reply that makes sense (out of 5 choices written in the native language), a more confrontational question should be asked. If once again, the player fails to pick the correct answer, you'll be asked to put down your weapon and surrender or be shot.

2. When approaching an organized enemy perimeter, the player should be met with a challenge (in a challenge and password security measure) or number (in a number combination security measure). Choosing the incorrect password or number combination would result in being asked to put down your weapon or being shot. The possible replies the player could give would also be written in the native language. If already inside the perimeter, there wouldn't be a need to go through this.

3. The closer you are to someone, the more likely that person should see that you're not one of them. The higher the skill level, the more likely that person would detect you. If your uniform is bloody, the likelihood of detection should increase.

4. It should take a much, much longer time to take off your own uniform and gear, take off the victim's uniform and gear, and then put on the victim's uniform and gear. When someone is dead weight and not helping you out with taking off their gear and uniform, it takes a ton of effort and time. If uniform-taking is implemented, I feel that dragging dead bodies and enemies being suspicious after finding a hidden dead body should be implemented (which leads to the next point).

5. If the enemy detects a dead body of a comrade that has his uniform and gear taken, the likelihood of being detected should be increased.

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Seems a bit stupid and uneccessary to me.

Completely agree. I'm actually disappointed in this feature for two reasons:

1) This is a MilSim game. Why not leave the gamey features to Call of Duty and Modern Warfare. Hate to break it to the developers, but sneaking around an enemy installation wearing a stolen uniform is mostly a Hollywood gimmick. In the past (and occasionally in the present) when enemy uniforms were used the teams would already be wearing them or at the very least carrying them with them into the mission. They didn't go into the mission with the plan being "We're going to shoot these guys and take their uniforms and hope no one notices the large amount of blood, holes, and quite possibly improperly fitting boots, trousers, and so forth".

2) This is a the feature you choose to highlight and show off? Just about any scripter from the ArmA 2 community could have had that scripted and bug tested within a day. If that is rated amongst the most revolutionary features BI has to offer with the third installment I feel we're in for what amounts to another add-on with a graphics boost.

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If you don't like it, don't use the feature. :)

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It seems way too easy at the moment. In addition to the good points already addressed by others, I feel like more than a couple of things should be implemented for the sake of realism:

1. Differences in language. The enemy should ask you questions and if you, the player, doesn't pick a reply that makes sense (out of 5 choices written in the native language), a more confrontational question should be asked. If once again, the player fails to pick the correct answer, you'll be asked to put down your weapon and surrender or be shot.

2. When approaching an organized enemy perimeter, the player should be met with a challenge (in a challenge and password security measure) or number (in a number combination security measure). Choosing the incorrect password or number combination would result in being asked to put down your weapon or being shot. The possible replies the player could give would also be written in the native language. If already inside the perimeter, there wouldn't be a need to go through this.

3. The closer you are to someone, the more likely that person should see that you're not one of them. The higher the skill level, the more likely that person would detect you. If your uniform is bloody, the likelihood of detection should increase.

4. It should take a much, much longer time to take off your own uniform and gear, take off the victim's uniform and gear, and then put on the victim's uniform and gear. When someone is dead weight and not helping you out with taking off their gear and uniform, it takes a ton of effort and time. If uniform-taking is implemented, I feel that dragging dead bodies and enemies being suspicious after finding a hidden dead body should be implemented (which leads to the next point).

5. If the enemy detects a dead body of a comrade that has his uniform and gear taken, the likelihood of being detected should be increased.

-Mostly aimed at #1 & #2-

When given the options, the letter characters are actually in the language? IE if it's an Iran compound, the choices given to the player in Arabic instead of written in English (Or what ever the players native language is), given it a one in five (Or one in how ever many options there are) chance of actually getting it right, and a four to five (Or what ever amounts) chance of getting caught?

Or it's in English (Or which ever the player uses) so he knows more of what he's saying and the character in the game speaks in Arabic?

I'm sure it's nice to make it harder on the player is nice and avoid being stopped but making it too hard will drive people from ever trying it and instead going gun-ho into the enemy camp.

I mean, I'm sure when there is a Special Operator in a war zone under cover, he'd understand and speak the more highly used languages in the area, even if there is an enemy force from another nation there since the Operator would need to know more to be able to survive longer. :confused:

And as for #4, it's just a 'Proof of Concept' that it is so fast for the change. I'm sure when ArmA3 get's released, it'll take much longer to change uniforms and I'm sure it will black out then back in to cover up the 'Changing'. It'll make more sense (And easier on them) to use a blackout on the uniform change instead of them bending down for 10 seconds, then see a new uniform on the player haha. But a blackout while the player character crouches, then view is returned with the player ready with the enemy uniform on.

And as for #5, I'm sure the 'Hide Bodies' action will return for that hehe ;)

Edited by SigintArmA

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2) This is a the feature you choose to highlight and show off? ... If that is rated amongst the most revolutionary features BI has to offer...

It's the underlying method - the fact that you wear gear, as opposed to the gear being grafted onto your body, so to speak - that is the big difference.

Ever since cold war assault 1.0 you could scavenge enemies for equipment - weapons, ammo, binoculars, nvgs - and with uniforms etc becoming just another piece of gear, this is a natural evolution.

They then made the AI react to the gear you're wearing, rather than just "if side soldier is enemy then shoot" as it's kinda been up to today. (A bit more complex, but not noteworthy so - for this discussion.) If you wear an enemy uniform, even bloody, even if you're of a wrong "race", and a lot of stuff mentioned so far in this thread, the enemy should not recognize you as an enemy and start engaging at 300m - except with good optics involved, and them actually using it.

Just about any scripter from the ArmA 2 community could have had that scripted and bug tested within a day.

If there's nothing else going on, no other scripts involved, no multiplayer, you should be able to do that. If any of the conditions above don't apply, however, something's gonna break. Unless it's simply a matter of gear customization as it will be in arma3.

---------- Post added at 06:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 AM ----------

WRT language, I expect we'll see more of what we saw in arma2.

Do you speak the language of chernarussia? Of takistan? Greece, Iran for arma3?

If you know all of them, hat's off to you. Most of us don't, and we can still play it reasonably because the game provides us with translated text and options - based on the player character knowing the language.

Notable exception being the takistani numerals at the mine.

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People here say that teh enemy would notice if you move to close but I also feel that acting suspicious would also make them notice you. Like running around and aiming the weapon looks very suspicious, I feel that as long as they are looking you must walk and have your weapon holstered/kept down.

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