England 'Riots'

[jeza 5416]

Sure alot of people from the uk have been following this, spreading now around liverpool brighton down to some areas of kent as well as london:

Parliament is being recalled on Thursday in response to rioting in England, the prime minister has said.

The government's emergency committee Cobra met on Tuesday after rioting spread across London, with violence flaring in other major cities.

"We will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and make them safe for the law-abiding," David Cameron said in Downing Street.

More than 16,000 officers will be on London streets on Wednesday, he said.

All Metropolitan Police leave has been cancelled, with the ranks swollen by reinforcements from other forces and community support officers.

More than five times the usual number of officers for a Tuesday will patrol London's streets later.

David Cameron described the scenes of violence as "sickening"

Meanwhile, Scotland Yard said a 26-year-old man found shot in a car in Croydon, amid rioting in the town, had died in hospital.

Mr Cameron met officers in the Met Police's Gold command in Lambeth on Tuesday afternoon.

He condemned the "sickening scenes of people looting, vandalising, thieving, robbing", which the Met Police said had resulted in 525 arrests and more than 100 people being charged.

He told rioters: "You will feel the full force of the law. And if you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment."

The recall of Parliament will allow MPs to "stand together in condemnation of these crimes and to stand together in determination to rebuild these communities", he said.

The prime minister returned early from his holiday in Tuscany to discuss the unrest, which first flared on Saturday after a peaceful protest in Tottenham over the fatal shooting of a man by police.

'Copycat crime'

London has seen a wave of "copycat criminal activity" over the past three days, the Met Police said. More than 69 people have been charged with various offences following hundreds of arrests.

Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham and Bristol are among the other cities where violence broke out.

Shops have been looted across the capital

Met Deputy Assistant Commissioner Steven Kavanagh said it was a "shocking and appalling morning for London to wake up to".

"The Met was stretched beyond belief in a way that it has never experienced before," he told BBC Breakfast.

Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin ruled out bringing in the Army to help police tackle the violence, but said: "We will be out there in ever greater numbers tonight."

In other developments:

Three people are being questioned on suspicion of attempted murder after a police officer was injured by a car in Wembley, north-west London, while trying to stop suspected looters

Tube stations closed during the riots have now reopened, apart from Ealing Broadway

Part of London's Tramlink between has been suspended as a result of a fire

Elsewhere, 100 people have been arrested in Birmingham after scores of youths smashed windows and looted shops in the shopping area

West Midlands Police said a police station in Holyhead Road in Handsworth, Birmingham, was set alight

Up to 200 youths with masks roamed through Toxteth in Liverpool, while Bristol police said they dealt with outbreaks of disorder involving about 150 people

A Nottinghamshire police station was attacked in the St Ann's area and 200 tyres were set alight in the street

Police dealt with "small pockets of disorder" in the Chapeltown area of Leeds

Monday's violence started in Hackney, north London, after a man was stopped and searched by police, who found nothing.

Groups of people there began attacking officers in Hackney at about 16:20 BST, throwing stones and a bin.

Wooden poles

Police cars were wrecked by youths armed with wooden poles and metal bars, while looters smashed their way into shops before police dispersed them.

Nine other forces are supporting the Metropolitan Police, as well as the City of London Police and British Transport Police.

Some people had complained there were too few police to deal with the violence.

Source bbcnews

Seems to me 90% of these lot are just 'pikeys' out for some 'fun' it started over a shooting of a man by police but I doubt most of these 'kids' even know about or even care about that.

[eble 3]

I've said it all day long, get around 200/300 young soldiers together issue all of them with rubber pipes and let them loose on the rioters, all streets cleared in a matter of minutes.

Everytime troubles flares up drop these guys off and watch the trouble disappear.

Been watching this the last few days on Australian news, really wtf were the police doing, not using pepper spray or tasers? it's totally unfair to expect the police to contend with all the crap thrown at them and not be able to defend themsleves?

where are the water cannons and up-armoured landrovers once used in northern ireland?

Stop being so fecking soft and sort these dickheads out.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Eble

[jeza 5416]

Yeah completely agree Eble, here's what some of the locals think about it worryingly: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Also on the police side you see now alot of officers covered in blood getting beaten pretty bad, and really at the moment there's little they can do.

[Zipper5 74]

The UK seems to have a big problem with youth Chav and yob culture. It was only a matter of time before something like this happened because of that, but I think, like Eble, the response to them should be "harder". A former classmate of mine considers himself a Chav and he recently got arrested over here for possession. The consequences for that over here in the middle east are significantly higher than those over in the UK, I'll tell you.

Perhaps such a response would knock some sense into these Chavs/yobs and show them that they really are the scum of British society...

Edited August 9, 2011 by Zipper5

[dmarkwick 261]

This is what happens when you get a government that nobody voted for, and that then tells you that things are going to be shit for the foreseeable future, and that public spending will have to be slaughtered to pay for the mistakes of entities that cannot be controlled.

I cannot condone the act of rioting, but riots happen when people are disaffected. It's not great having your future stolen.

This time it's a little different than the poll tax riots of the 80s, because it's less directed. Less directed but more organised. And so looting becomes the primary effect.

[Zipper5 74]

I believe, DMarkwick, the riots broke out when an aforementioned Chav a man named Mark, or something to that effect, fired at a police officer, missed, and the police officer returned fire and killed him. Then Mark's family called on everyone to riot. Funny thing is that they got bored quickly, backed off and then started to state that they do not condone what is going on now.

Edit: Yes, Mark Duggan. Though it would appear he is not a Chav.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Zipper5

[dmarkwick 261]

I believe, DMarkwick, the riots broke out when an aforementioned Chav named Mark, or something to that effect, fired at a police officer, missed, and the police officer returned fire and killed him. Then Mark's family called on everyone to riot. Funny thing is that they got bored quickly, backed off and then started to state that they do not condone what is going on now.

Edit: Yes, Mark Duggan.

That's what started the initial protest. Quite obviously, everyone in England did not know Mark or care for him enough to riot, so it's now become something else. It's not an accident that this kicks off in the current economic climate, otherwise this would happen more often. The Mark Duggan event was only a flame to the fuel.

Whenever the poor are squeezed, this happens. OK it's the thug element only, and I doubt most of them care or even understand enough about economics to make an informed opinion, but I look only at the larger behaviour pattern.

[dm 9]

Yeah completely agree Eble, here's what some of the locals think about it worryingly: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Urgh, this is fucking despicable.

"So you've been drinking all night?"

"Yeah"

"Its the governments fault, conservatives or whoever it is"

Yes, its clearly the governments fault that you're a wine drinking yobbo.

Tho I guess you do have to blame Labour for effing up the schools with their stupid league tables over the last decade...

[-)rStrangelove 0]

On German news it has been said that the policemen were the only ones to shoot at the man. They fired at their own mic to make it look like that man shot them first but apparantly the bullet found was the same hollow one the police is issued.

Thats what they said over here.

[STALKERGB 6]

tasers

I have a feeling most of these were withdrawn after the use of them on Raoul Moat during the Police standoff with him (resulting in his death).

Unfortunately the Police feel damned if they do and damned if they don't, often being criticized for heavy handed tactics. Not that it's an excuse for them. It does all seem to be spurred on by anarchists and opportunism rather than any particular political message.

The UK seems to have a big problem with youth Chav and yob culture.

It's certainly hard to judge the problems and the scale of them, not that the media helps the issue. Although events like this show how bad (or moreover how willing) people are to go looting and rioting.

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

I believe, DMarkwick, the riots broke out when an aforementioned Chav a man named Mark, or something to that effect, fired at a police officer, missed, and the police officer returned fire and killed him. Then Mark's family called on everyone to riot. Funny thing is that they got bored quickly, backed off and then started to state that they do not condone what is going on now.

Edit: Yes, Mark Duggan. Though it would appear he is not a Chav.

The media has mis-reported the story incredibly frequently. It seems Mark Duggan never fired on the Police, and neither did they claim he had done. One of the Officer's found a gun and "feared for his life". Two shots were fired, one missed, the other didn't. The family never called for riots, they held a peaceful protest outside their local Police Station before going home. The rioting started thereafter.

Although the Police may be found to have made mistakes, the same unit has conducted hundreds of armed arrests without incident so sooner or later they were going to make a mistake.

[dmarkwick 261]

This also comes on the back of the Menendez shooting a few years ago. Completely innocent guy who was shot because he lived in the wrong tower block.

Peaceful protest over Iraq = no policy change whatsoever.

Peaceful protest over petrol tax = no policy change whatsoever.

Peaceful protest over foxhunting clampdowns = no policy change whatsoever.

Peaceful protest over swingeing public spending cuts = no policy change whatsoever.

Rioting over poll tax = government u-turn. It's not hard to see why the rioting is happening, it's been a long time coming.

[icebreakr 3156]

This situation kinda reminds me of 28 Weeks Later. Send in the troops ;)

[jeza 5416]

This also comes on the back of the Menendez shooting a few years ago. Completely innocent guy who was shot because he lived in the wrong tower block.

If your referring to ' Jean Charles de Menezes' then I have to disagree the guy ran a couple of weeks after 7/7 , from armed police, if he infact the bloke did have some sort of bomb on him then it could have been catastrophic, may sound harsh but in that situation better safe than sorry, if an armed officer points an automatic weapon at me and says stop, I stop especially after 7/7.

[Sky999 10]

It was like Blackhawk down last night!

Got to admit I was annoyed when Boris Johnson finally arrived, got in front of the microphone, and then wasn't allowed to speak because people were shouting him down as a 'racist'. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to DM

Crime and rioting has always occured when the conservatives are in power.

Mainly because when the conservatives get into power they allways:

1. Increase the amount of unemployment.
   
2. Increase the percentage of national GDP given to super rich.
   
3. Decrease the percentage of national GDP the poor are alowed to keep.
   
4. Increase inflation.
   
5. Reduce the numbers of police.
   

Idle hands do the devils work; to quote a christian saying. Then the conservatives goad people into fighting by reducing peoples incomes and alowing the super rich to increase their share of profits by reducing workers wages and increasing inflation and finaly they reduce the number of police.

History:

The last major rioting in the UK took place under a conservative government for exactly the same reasons; from: the broadwater farm, the brixton riots, to poll tax riots, and the miners.

During the whole period of the labour government crime reduced and rioting disapeared.

The plain fact is we have a government that is not legitimate and is universaly disliked, is under the thumb of News Corp and that has spent the last two years making the tax payer and electorate pay for a banking scam.

That kind of thing gets up peoples noses eventualy.

It is simple really DM; a vote for a conservative is a vote for rising crime and riots.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 9, 2011 by walker

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I see the inner-city kids are into the swing of the school holidays...

[jeza 5416]

Woolwich Police Overrun:

Some video here

[dm 9]

It is simple really DM; a vote for a conservative is a vote for rising crime and riots.

Oh I agree whole-heartedly.

Sadly whichever way people vote in the UK at the moment leads to morons being in power.

In a way I'm glad I'm an expat.

In another way it makes me sad to see home in such a state...

[st_dux 26]

From what I've read, the rioting appears to be more opportunistic than political. I agree with those who've called for a tougher approach.

[dmarkwick 261]

If your referring to ' Jean Charles de Menezes' then I have to disagree the guy ran a couple of weeks after 7/7 , from armed police, if he infact the bloke did have some sort of bomb on him then it could have been catastrophic, may sound harsh but in that situation better safe than sorry, if an armed officer points an automatic weapon at me and says stop, I stop especially after 7/7.

Sorry Jeza, but that account is almost completely wrong. He didn't run from anybody, he was completely unaware he was even being followed until they stormed the train carriage he was on. He walked toward them with his arms out, clearly unarmed, and he was wrestled to the ground and then shot in the head several times, once every two seconds.

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

From what I've read, the rioting appears to be more opportunistic than political. I agree with those who've called for a tougher approach.

I advocate the use of water cannons mixed with indelible red dye. That way they can be picked up at leisure for days afterwards.

[dm 9]

I advocate the use of water cannons mixed with indelible red dye. That way they can be picked up at leisure for days afterwards.

Definitely.

Tho I wouldnt be surprised if all the water cannons had been sold as cost-cutting measures :j:

I guess at least Withams has armfuls of surplus LR Snatches that could be pressed into service if needed...

[Tonci87 163]

Well i think this had to happen sooner or later.

Let idiots rule the country and you get riots.

Bt I'm surprised that the police doesnt use more force. In germany even peacefull demonstrations get busted by waterthrowers and police

[PELHAM 10]

It is not surprising and I was a victim of this sort of thing 4 years ago. I have watched the rise of drug fuelled Chav culture with alarm and often wondered what would happen if the syndrome of groups of youths using modern technology to organise trouble spread city wide or country wide.

It's sickening that journalists rush to justify what is just greed and thuggish, opportunistic behaviour. The only definition I have heard that is remotely correct is "Clockwork Orange".

The shooting of Mark Duggan has nothing to do with it. It's simple copycat behaviour and all they want is alcohol, cigarettes, new trainers, phones and TV's.

4 years ago we went out to celebrate a friends birthday and ended up in a quiet local pub on the edge of a small town. Unknown to us, a local youth was barred earlier in the evening for bad behaviour.

He called/texted all his friends and just as we sat down the hoodies surrounded the pub and started throwing bricks, large rocks from local gardens and stones through all the windows and damaging cars in the car park with baseball bats. We had to beg the police to attend and it took several phone calls before they took any notice. A baby asleep upstairs was narrowly missed by a large rock and showered in broken glass.

I have lived in several countries in Southern Africa and never believed my civil defence / riot training would be of any use in the UK. I managed to calm people down get them to stay together in the centre of the pub, not go outside and went back to sipping my pint and eye balling the kids outside. In the end it worked.

Keeping calm and icy is the secret. The attackers will lose interest if they don't get a reaction and it calms the victims. Since then much else has happened including a car being used to ram another pub. I have seen youths regularly texting to call reinforcements to fights and robberies etc and now the police have been made ineffective by legislation, political correctness and the compensation culture I don't know where it will end.

The most jaw dropping experience you will ever have is complaining to parents about their teenager's, drug use, theft (in one case from their own house), vandalism etc and being told to get lost. That's by parents who are teachers, nurses and other professionals. They back their children to the hilt no matter what they do. On the council estates it's many degrees worse. The children are used as foot soldiers because the parents know that kids don't get punished by the authorities. ASBOS and criminal records are meaningless - they all have one.

The politicians appearing on TV today calling for parents help and bleating about policing by consent are not living in the real world. It's likely much of the stuff that was taken will be gladly received at home.

That is the sad state of the UK today. No doubt excuses will be made for all this by the hand wringing politically correct. Expect it to happen every year from now on.

Edited August 9, 2011 by PELHAM

[jeza 5416]

Sorry Jeza, but that account is almost completely wrong. He didn't run from anybody, he was completely unaware he was even being followed until they stormed the train carriage he was on. He walked toward them with his arms out, clearly unarmed, and he was wrestled to the ground and then shot in the head several times, once every two seconds.

My apologies was a while ago did not know the full inquiry, from what i understand from what i read from it he walked towards the officers on the train when they boarded.

Thanks for clearing it up, and putting it right for me anyhow. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

My apologies was a while ago did not know the full inquiry, from what i understand from what i read from it he walked towards the officers on the train when they boarded.

Thanks for clearing it up, and putting it right for me anyhow. :)

Not a problem :) it's sad though that because of misinformation from police and then misreporting from the media, that it's difficult to get an understanding of events until several months have passed. A lot of people probably still have an opinion formed during the misreporting stage.